7 ms·
I failed three job applications, here's what I learned
- unixhero 4y ago3??? To fail 3 is less than expected generally
- nidnogg 4y agoA lot less at that. The title almost reads like satire. Also odd that the author is thinking of charging for pro-tips at the end of each blog post.
- tkiolp4 4y agoI guess it depends. Europe and US is different in this regard (tech jobs). Whenever I look for a job, the numbers are: - around 15 potential companies I’m interested in working for (after spending some time on the internet) - I apply to 10 or so - 2 or so never answer - I don’t pass the first call for 1 company - 5 answer me - I fail the tech interview with half of them - I pass the whole interview with 2 or 3, from which I select 1
- hnarn 4y agoThis entire post gives me "the ick" as the kids say nowadays. The author is revealing lots of information about the company's infrastructure, given to him in an interview, as well as directly linking to the personal LinkedIn-profiles of the people he is name-dropping. I don't know what to call this. Aggressive networking, maybe? First of all, three interviews is nothing, and secondly, the "lessons learned" are trivial to say the least: 1. If you're not X, don't apply for X positions. 2. Don't apply to jobs you don't want, and don't question the company's existence 3. Network I'm sorry to say this but the one thing I get out of this post is that this person is bad at compromise, is rough around the edges and plays fast and loose. I can see why any of those things alone would be a red flag in an initial interview with someone you know almost nothing about.
- paulcarroty 4y ago> The author is revealing lots of information about the company's infrastructure, given to him in an interview That info should be public by design anyway.
- hnarn 4y agoThat's not the point. Of course any information given to a candidate in an interview should not be privileged -- the point is that the fact that this is how things "should be" does not mean that it's an implicit agreement to share the information you get with the general public. This should be obvious to anyone.
- a4isms 4y agoI’ve been hiring programmers for three decades. What is obvious to me is that we play a game where there is a posted set of rules such as “Don’t talk shit about the companies that interview you and definitely don’t reveal what they told you in an interview.” We punish people for breaking these rules. But also, insiders break these rules all the time, quietly, either in “whisper networks,” or on web sites launched by startups that give people a way to post what questions companies ask when hiring, what biases various interviewers have, and so forth. What we’re punishing this person for when talking about their “oversharing” is not being enough of an insider to know the right way to play the hidden game.
- ghaff 4y agoA lot of things that go on within companies are not some deep dark trade secret that you're violating some confidence by talking about with friends. However, if I were on an interview committee, and saw a blog post sharing the blow by blow complete with names of the people involved, I'd consider it at least rather weird. I certainly wouldn't have consented to having my name made public in that way.
- arnvald 4y agoPossibly, but I don't think it's up to the post author to decide.
- conradfr 4y ago> If I get fired or quit during the first year of moving to Canada, I would have to pay back all the expenses for the nice mobility package. Is it legally enforceable to make you pay back those expanses if you're fired (at least without cause)?
- pluijzer 4y agoCould be that the candidate starts with a contract for a years so being fired in this time would mean it is not without cause.
- astura 4y agoRelocation stipends are pretty much always paid contingent on signing an agreement that if your employment ceases within X timeframe (no matter the cause) then you have to pay it back, or at least part of it. If an employee has a problem agreeing to such a provision, then they simply don't get the stipend and they have to relocate on their own dime. If you owe any money would depend on the exact wording of whatever agreement was signed. It probably says "for any reason."
- radres 4y agoWhat it says on a contract does not make it enforceable. Original question is asking "if it is enforceable".
- ghaff 4y agoIt's probably enforceable in the sense that you'll probably spend more money fighting it than just negotiating some settlement if the company is serious about clawing it back.
- gregshap 4y agoDon't know about Canada. In the US employers rarely (but not never) attempt to enforce when someone is laid off or fired not-for-cause.
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- belter 4y agoI have something important to tell you...but first, login in here...
- makach 4y agoI don't want to work for a company that doesn't want to work with me. Also, don't forget your perspective. They think they are interviewing you, but the reality is that you are interviewing them. Also, from the post "don't apply to a specialist position if you are a generalist" ... wth?! If they have a top down approach to how they perceive themselves and you, cut the cord and run away. Everyone has to start somewhere, and in tech, often specialization comes over time.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- TrackerFF 4y agoFrom time to time I head over to cscareerquestions at Reddit - a place predominantly populated by college students and fresh junior candidates. I see users there applying for hundreds of positions - I don't think I've ever applied for more than 15 positions in my life. Since 2014 I've applied for 8 positions, as I've documented those in a spreadsheet I still have. So while failing "only" 3 job applications may seem comically low for many people, it's on par with my experience (should be mentioned that I, like the OP, am also from Scandinavia. Maybe a different culture from the US?).
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago1: The US is different. Way more applicants and traffic than the remainder of the world. This also affects selection mechanisms (low accuracy, high filtering, little feedback) and application strategies (various levels of effort, shotgun approach). 2: The first job is by far the hardest. Everything else is peanuts comparatively (unless you're an outlier). Clue is this piece: >I can’t recall the reference but I read in a book that it’s 10x easier to find a job while you’re already employed. My experience complies. Don’t waste that multiplier. When company A thinks someone is worthy of picking, companies B-F suddenly believe that individual is worthy of picking too. One door opens, suddenly they all open. Combine both and it starts to make sense why application numbers are so ridiculously high.
- joenot443 4y agoCSCQ is a funny place. I think it’s sort of a community of squeaky wheels, people with a problem or a bone to pick, so reading the posts one would think CS is a much more stressful career than it is in reality. /r/Overemployed is even stranger, that’s a level of gamification and min-maxing being applied to your career even us in tech find queasy.
- dustincoates 4y agoIt makes sense when you realize that, just like a relationships or beginner workout forum, the people who stick around are the ones that have been least successful: if you've gotten a job, a relationship, or in shape, you're less likely to be in a forum dedicated to asking for advice.
- birdyrooster 4y agoI like when people over share so that it’s less weird when I do it
- vouaobrasil 4y agoI failed many more, getting to various stages but not passing. The #1 thing I learned when looking back is that I wasn't a good fit for any of them. I was just desperate for a job.
- Double_a_92 4y agoIsn't it normal that most people (even the one that actually end up getting the job) are not a perfect or even good fit? I've never seen any job ad where I said, yeah I totally fulfill all those requirements.
- vouaobrasil 4y agoThat is true. However, I am one of those people that I either really cares a lot or hardly at all when I do something...if something is interesting to me I really put passion into it but if not then I am totally uninterested, and I think that showed up in my interviews for sure.
- tkiolp4 4y ago> I knew how to make a product e2e but my understanding of the event loop wasn’t beyond what you could Google and read on blogs. This is me. Exactly. That’s why I would never be able to work for FAANG.
- azangru 4y ago> That’s why I would never be able to work for FAANG. I sincerely doubt FAANG has no use for regular web developers, or that web developers there need to know C++ internals of Node.
- wildrhythms 4y agoThe first part of that quote that you omitted alludes to Datadog (not a FAANG) looking for a C++ dev which the author later admits they are not. Why did the author apply to the job knowing they would be unprepared? FTA: >They needed a JavaScript master AND C++ developer who could contribute to Node.js core on DataDog’s behalf. They needed a specialist. Alas, that wasn’t me. I had worked with frontend, backend, serverless, mobile, even graphic design and UX. But not exclusively with Node.js core
- ghaff 4y agoWell, companies post lots of requirements that they aren't necessarily wed to. (Though I would have thought a hard requirement for C++, if that wasn't on their resume, wouldn't have passed an initial screen.)
- vizzah 4y agoThe most interesting bit to me (as a concerned stock hodler) was indeed how is Spotify managing to get away with so much free stuff (and a VR room?!) for employees, while still burning investor's money.
- hanifbbz 4y agoWould be fun to sit in the room where they motivated it: "we need a kick ass office to hire the best talent to be able to maximize the ..." I don't know where I was going with this! I have no clue how they got away with it :D
- PainfullyNormal 4y ago> She wrote that she assessed that I don't talk like their staff engineers. I've heard this from other people, too. Is talking the talk really this important to employers looking to hire staff engineers? And if it is, why?
- ghaff 4y agoI'd say that for senior positions generally companies are looking for qualities that go beyond technical expertise (where in coding or something else). This includes communication skills, poise, etc.
- PainfullyNormal 4y agoWhat you're describing applies to all jobs everywhere, including junior and non-technical positions. Nobody hires strictly on technical expertise.
- ghaff 4y agoThat's true but the more senior the position, the truer it is. If a new grad or candidate for a junior position seems to have the skills for an internally-facing position, I'm more likely to overlook some social awkwardness or so-so communication skills than in someone more senior.
- hanifbbz 4y agoIn this particular case I guess questioning the business model of the company by bringing some controversy on the first interaction wasn't very strategic. Maybe the staff engineers they have hired don't do that!
- PainfullyNormal 4y agoI doubt that was the deal breaker. I always question the company's business model in the interview. If they can't defend their business model to an applicant, how can they possibly do so to investors, customers, and/or other companies looking to make strategic partnerships? Their due diligence is far more severe than mine (or the author's). I asked the question because it's not the first time I've heard something similar to "learn to talk like other staff engineers". I've heard it a few times, I've read/heard other people being told some variation of it, and it even shows up in the Staff Engineer book by Will Larson. I was hoping to get more insight from people either hiring Staff engineers or other Staff engineers themselves.