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what about people that dont pay taxes i.e. every other chinese, saudi, indian, russian, EU and LATAM millionaire that owns several properties in miami, orlando,

what about people that dont pay taxes i.e. every other chinese, saudi, indian, russian, EU and LATAM millionaire that owns several properties in miami, orlando, nyc, LA, dallas, houston, phoenix, etc. What about banks and REITs that are passthru entities for the same folk above ? What about SV out-of-staters that don't pay state taxes but work remote at places like LV, Salt Lake, or Boise ? You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ?

sizzle 4y ago
Wow this is news to me, thanks for sharing the examples I’ve never knew about that are gaming the system. Very eye opening.
Eisenstein 4y ago
> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? I don't recall the person you replied to mentioning that. Why is it impossible to levy property taxes on real estate in your own state from people who live somewhere else?
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Its not impossible. That's not the point What i mean is real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available. 10k year in property tax is a pittance to a Sheik, a shenzen factory owner, an indian tech entrepreneur, your average venezuelan govt bureaucrat, or a REIT. 10k is not peanuts to the average wage earner in the US. The former all buy in USA to keep their wealth safe from confiscation and leverage the US justice system and FDIC. Because back in their home countries they are 1 election away from communism or a bank collapse. We have no adequate means to raise the cost of entry for them, and mentioning change to favor local purchases, is almost taboo. Meanwhile, we say "tax the rich" here. Yet foreigners keep loading up on real estate and US citizens end up renting forever..
  - ericd 4y ago
    That’s what happens when we live well beyond our means for decades and trade dollars for real goods - those dollars come back to buy up assets.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available That can be fixed - namely, via land value taxation, at a rate as close to 100% as possible.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      Great. Now retired grandma , who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca, is stuck with high taxes. She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs...now must pay half her retired in come due to land value taxation. This literally describes 2 people I know. Grandma didn't do anything to you or me. Why would you punish granma who just want to live out her retirement ? Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ?
      - yellowapple 4y ago
        > This literally describes 2 people I know. For every "retired grandma who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca", I can show you dozens if not hundreds of grandmas who already got pushed out of town because of skyrocketing rents - thanks in no small part to your homeowning grandmas stubbornly insisting on living in a single-family home in the middle of Downtown, on a lot that could and should be housing dozens or hundreds of households. And I haven't even begun to dig into the socioeconomic safety nets like citizens' dividends that a land value tax could readily fund, thus producing a negative tax burden for all renters and the vast majority of homeowners. Why would you punish those hundreds of grammas who just want to live out their retirements? Not to mention the thousands of working Americans who just want a place to live that doesn't entail multi-hour-long commutes? > She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs There are these things called "moving companies" which would be happy to move her and her stuff into an apartment nearby. With the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars in equity she's accumulated due to her property appreciating in value, she can almost certainly afford to hire such a company to move her and her stuff. With LVT motivating the construction of said apartments to amortize said LVT across as many tenants as possible, she will have no trouble finding a new home - and the denser urbanization would mean that the grocer and pharmacist and GP and such would be right around the corner instead of involving a half-hour bus ride through sprawling suburbia. > Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ? Because that is far from the only cause of housing shortages. You could play whack-a-mole with ad hoc taxes specifically targeting foreign investors and domestic investors and property management companies and Old Money billionaires and wannabe AirBNB moguls and agricultural conglomerates and commercial/industrial landlords and everyone else directly profiting on the very land speculation driving costs of living through the roof... or you could just tax land value, and thus address all that in one fell swoop with a tiny fraction of the bureaucratic overhead and with countless social and economic benefits on top of that.
dpkirchner 4y ago
Do you have a sense of how many properties are owned by folks from other countries, as a percentage of the total housing stock? The national association of realtors[0] put out a press release saying their purchases accounted for about 1.6% from April 2021 through March 2022, however it's not clear from their figures whether that is all existing homes or a mix of new and existing. If that is right that doesn't seem too bad, at least for a year. Dunno what the total ownership stats say. 0: https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-in-u-s-existing-home-sales-climbed-8-5-to-59-billion-ending-three-year-slide https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-i...
- christkv 4y ago
  I bet that 1.6 are mostly in high cost areas like the coasts pushing up prices.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
spacemadness 4y ago
That’s a lot of whatabouts. I’m not sure why you’re attacking the previous poster who obviously wants people to be taxed.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Because he wants to freece people that mostly work and do productive things for a living, and meanwhile (some) randos come to the US with stacks of cash derived from US foreign aid, from selling copycat goods on amazon, from selling govt offices in their home country, or with wads of cash from straight up corruption / criminal activity... and they get the white glove treatment. A non-us citizen real estate tax (in the style of NZ) is like the 3rd rail of politics. God forbid anyone daring to mention a ~200% FV tax on any residential property purchase by a non-us citizen.
maybelsyrup 4y ago
If coercing the wealthy on housing issues constitutes “fleecing”, then I’ll take several sweaters, please. > but others you let just... walk in ? My guy we can do both, we can fleece all the third and fourth home owners, foreign and domestic, it’ll be glorious, join us
bill_joy_fanboy 4y ago
> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? Sorry for the late reply... No, I don't want these people to just "walk in." I support BTFO'ing all of the above people with punitive taxes. I might give the SV bros a pass if they only have one house that is their primary residence or maybe one other place. It's the people (and organizations) who have many properties who frustrate me.

sizzle 4y ago

Wow this is news to me, thanks for sharing the examples I’ve never knew about that are gaming the system. Very eye opening.

Eisenstein 4y ago

> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? I don't recall the person you replied to mentioning that. Why is it impossible to levy property taxes on real estate in your own state from people who live somewhere else?

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
Its not impossible. That's not the point What i mean is real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available. 10k year in property tax is a pittance to a Sheik, a shenzen factory owner, an indian tech entrepreneur, your average venezuelan govt bureaucrat, or a REIT. 10k is not peanuts to the average wage earner in the US. The former all buy in USA to keep their wealth safe from confiscation and leverage the US justice system and FDIC. Because back in their home countries they are 1 election away from communism or a bank collapse. We have no adequate means to raise the cost of entry for them, and mentioning change to favor local purchases, is almost taboo. Meanwhile, we say "tax the rich" here. Yet foreigners keep loading up on real estate and US citizens end up renting forever..
- ericd 4y ago
  That’s what happens when we live well beyond our means for decades and trade dollars for real goods - those dollars come back to buy up assets.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available That can be fixed - namely, via land value taxation, at a rate as close to 100% as possible.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Great. Now retired grandma , who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca, is stuck with high taxes. She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs...now must pay half her retired in come due to land value taxation. This literally describes 2 people I know. Grandma didn't do anything to you or me. Why would you punish granma who just want to live out her retirement ? Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ?
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > This literally describes 2 people I know. For every "retired grandma who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca", I can show you dozens if not hundreds of grandmas who already got pushed out of town because of skyrocketing rents - thanks in no small part to your homeowning grandmas stubbornly insisting on living in a single-family home in the middle of Downtown, on a lot that could and should be housing dozens or hundreds of households. And I haven't even begun to dig into the socioeconomic safety nets like citizens' dividends that a land value tax could readily fund, thus producing a negative tax burden for all renters and the vast majority of homeowners. Why would you punish those hundreds of grammas who just want to live out their retirements? Not to mention the thousands of working Americans who just want a place to live that doesn't entail multi-hour-long commutes? > She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs There are these things called "moving companies" which would be happy to move her and her stuff into an apartment nearby. With the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars in equity she's accumulated due to her property appreciating in value, she can almost certainly afford to hire such a company to move her and her stuff. With LVT motivating the construction of said apartments to amortize said LVT across as many tenants as possible, she will have no trouble finding a new home - and the denser urbanization would mean that the grocer and pharmacist and GP and such would be right around the corner instead of involving a half-hour bus ride through sprawling suburbia. > Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ? Because that is far from the only cause of housing shortages. You could play whack-a-mole with ad hoc taxes specifically targeting foreign investors and domestic investors and property management companies and Old Money billionaires and wannabe AirBNB moguls and agricultural conglomerates and commercial/industrial landlords and everyone else directly profiting on the very land speculation driving costs of living through the roof... or you could just tax land value, and thus address all that in one fell swoop with a tiny fraction of the bureaucratic overhead and with countless social and economic benefits on top of that.

dpkirchner 4y ago

Do you have a sense of how many properties are owned by folks from other countries, as a percentage of the total housing stock? The national association of realtors[0] put out a press release saying their purchases accounted for about 1.6% from April 2021 through March 2022, however it's not clear from their figures whether that is all existing homes or a mix of new and existing. If that is right that doesn't seem too bad, at least for a year. Dunno what the total ownership stats say. 0: https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-in-u-s-existing-home-sales-climbed-8-5-to-59-billion-ending-three-year-slide https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-i...

christkv 4y ago
I bet that 1.6 are mostly in high cost areas like the coasts pushing up prices.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

spacemadness 4y ago

That’s a lot of whatabouts. I’m not sure why you’re attacking the previous poster who obviously wants people to be taxed.

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
Because he wants to freece people that mostly work and do productive things for a living, and meanwhile (some) randos come to the US with stacks of cash derived from US foreign aid, from selling copycat goods on amazon, from selling govt offices in their home country, or with wads of cash from straight up corruption / criminal activity... and they get the white glove treatment. A non-us citizen real estate tax (in the style of NZ) is like the 3rd rail of politics. God forbid anyone daring to mention a ~200% FV tax on any residential property purchase by a non-us citizen.

maybelsyrup 4y ago

If coercing the wealthy on housing issues constitutes “fleecing”, then I’ll take several sweaters, please. > but others you let just... walk in ? My guy we can do both, we can fleece all the third and fourth home owners, foreign and domestic, it’ll be glorious, join us

bill_joy_fanboy 4y ago

> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? Sorry for the late reply... No, I don't want these people to just "walk in." I support BTFO'ing all of the above people with punitive taxes. I might give the SV bros a pass if they only have one house that is their primary residence or maybe one other place. It's the people (and organizations) who have many properties who frustrate me.