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> First, you have a tech industry salary, which is probably at least twice as much as the median wage, if not more. This is exactly his point. If he can't make

> First, you have a tech industry salary, which is probably at least twice as much as the median wage, if not more. This is exactly his point. If he can't make it with what he has going for him, who can? > You only options are to accept that and adjust your budget/income/location appropriately, or opt to rent forever, which is not at all a bad thing since owning a primary residence is never an investment. (Although there is room for nuance here that I won't get into.) You only list two options: (1) budget better, (2) give in to renting forever. I agree that, if the above poster wants a better shot, he should do his best to budget well. However, he should also help support policies that tax the dickens out of people who own more than their primary residence and maybe 1-2 other properties. There is more at stake here than just his own situation.

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
what about people that dont pay taxes i.e. every other chinese, saudi, indian, russian, EU and LATAM millionaire that owns several properties in miami, orlando, nyc, LA, dallas, houston, phoenix, etc. What about banks and REITs that are passthru entities for the same folk above ? What about SV out-of-staters that don't pay state taxes but work remote at places like LV, Salt Lake, or Boise ? You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ?
- sizzle 4y ago
  Wow this is news to me, thanks for sharing the examples I’ve never knew about that are gaming the system. Very eye opening.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  > You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? I don't recall the person you replied to mentioning that. Why is it impossible to levy property taxes on real estate in your own state from people who live somewhere else?
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Its not impossible. That's not the point What i mean is real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available. 10k year in property tax is a pittance to a Sheik, a shenzen factory owner, an indian tech entrepreneur, your average venezuelan govt bureaucrat, or a REIT. 10k is not peanuts to the average wage earner in the US. The former all buy in USA to keep their wealth safe from confiscation and leverage the US justice system and FDIC. Because back in their home countries they are 1 election away from communism or a bank collapse. We have no adequate means to raise the cost of entry for them, and mentioning change to favor local purchases, is almost taboo. Meanwhile, we say "tax the rich" here. Yet foreigners keep loading up on real estate and US citizens end up renting forever..
    - ericd 4y ago
      That’s what happens when we live well beyond our means for decades and trade dollars for real goods - those dollars come back to buy up assets.
    - yellowapple 4y ago
      > real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available That can be fixed - namely, via land value taxation, at a rate as close to 100% as possible.
      - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
        Great. Now retired grandma , who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca, is stuck with high taxes. She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs...now must pay half her retired in come due to land value taxation. This literally describes 2 people I know. Grandma didn't do anything to you or me. Why would you punish granma who just want to live out her retirement ? Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ?
- dpkirchner 4y ago
  Do you have a sense of how many properties are owned by folks from other countries, as a percentage of the total housing stock? The national association of realtors[0] put out a press release saying their purchases accounted for about 1.6% from April 2021 through March 2022, however it's not clear from their figures whether that is all existing homes or a mix of new and existing. If that is right that doesn't seem too bad, at least for a year. Dunno what the total ownership stats say. 0: https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-in-u-s-existing-home-sales-climbed-8-5-to-59-billion-ending-three-year-slide https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-i...
  - christkv 4y ago
    I bet that 1.6 are mostly in high cost areas like the coasts pushing up prices.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- spacemadness 4y ago
  That’s a lot of whatabouts. I’m not sure why you’re attacking the previous poster who obviously wants people to be taxed.
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    Because he wants to freece people that mostly work and do productive things for a living, and meanwhile (some) randos come to the US with stacks of cash derived from US foreign aid, from selling copycat goods on amazon, from selling govt offices in their home country, or with wads of cash from straight up corruption / criminal activity... and they get the white glove treatment. A non-us citizen real estate tax (in the style of NZ) is like the 3rd rail of politics. God forbid anyone daring to mention a ~200% FV tax on any residential property purchase by a non-us citizen.
- maybelsyrup 4y ago
  If coercing the wealthy on housing issues constitutes “fleecing”, then I’ll take several sweaters, please. > but others you let just... walk in ? My guy we can do both, we can fleece all the third and fourth home owners, foreign and domestic, it’ll be glorious, join us
- bill_joy_fanboy 4y ago
  > You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? Sorry for the late reply... No, I don't want these people to just "walk in." I support BTFO'ing all of the above people with punitive taxes. I might give the SV bros a pass if they only have one house that is their primary residence or maybe one other place. It's the people (and organizations) who have many properties who frustrate me.
refurb 4y ago
> This is exactly his point. If he can't make it with what he has going for him, who can? Presumably they are living in a HCOL area, so definitely not indicative of life in America in general. I know a few folks who live in the mid-west (typically derided as "fly over country") who have blue collar jobs making $70,000 who bought a house in their twenties. You're not going to get too much sympathy from them when you're making 3-5x their salary and complain you can't afford a $1.5M single family home in the most expensive cities in the US.
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  > You're not going to get too much sympathy from them Why not? That someone makes much more than someone else and endures a higher cost of living does not establish anything other than that the people who work those kinds of jobs want to live in those kinds of places (or the companies want to be there but it is hard to disentangle the two). Lack of sympathy because someone is in a different situation seems somewhat course considering that there are problems which either party does not experience but are objectively bad and should be remedied. Because they are different does not mean they are less impactful to quality of life.
  - refurb 4y ago
    > Because they are different does not mean they are less impactful to quality of life. No, sorry. Both might be "struggling", but there is a massive difference between "I make $500,000 per year and can't buy a $3M home" and "I make $60,000 per year and can't afford a $300,000 home." The person making $500,000 per year in another stratosphere of economic wealth that someone who makes $60,000 can't even fathom. It's like someone who makes $1M per year complaining they can't afford a private jet. Sure, they are experiencing an "impact to their quality of life", but no, it's nowhere close to the same situation, hence they get no sympathy from people who have actual financial difficulties.
    - Eisenstein 4y ago
      Comparing a home to a private jet is not valid. Of course life in HCOL areas is 'better', that is one reason why they are so expensive, but to compare someone who cannot afford a home in the city they work in with a millionaire ($500K/year is kind of ridiculous, I think $100 - 300K is more realistic) is not fair. Please open your mind a bit more and consider that treating people without sympathy tends to get you no sympathy in return, and I would wager mid-westerner's could use some as well.
dclowd9901 4y ago
Great, yes. I do that too. Also, I live somewhere that falls well below my salary (COL wise) and I live beneath my means. I don’t live poor or poorly, but I don’t live like a hundred-thousandaire like we all used to see around 2008. There is happiness and fulfillment to be found in a very reasonable dedication range. I work, like WORK work barely 5 hours a week from home and make $300k a year. My company is over the moon with my contributions. I didn’t graduate last year. I put in the work, learned the craft and I have valuable contributions to give from my experiences. You will too someday. But right now you need to learn.

IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago

what about people that dont pay taxes i.e. every other chinese, saudi, indian, russian, EU and LATAM millionaire that owns several properties in miami, orlando, nyc, LA, dallas, houston, phoenix, etc. What about banks and REITs that are passthru entities for the same folk above ? What about SV out-of-staters that don't pay state taxes but work remote at places like LV, Salt Lake, or Boise ? You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ?

sizzle 4y ago
Wow this is news to me, thanks for sharing the examples I’ve never knew about that are gaming the system. Very eye opening.
Eisenstein 4y ago
> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? I don't recall the person you replied to mentioning that. Why is it impossible to levy property taxes on real estate in your own state from people who live somewhere else?
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Its not impossible. That's not the point What i mean is real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available. 10k year in property tax is a pittance to a Sheik, a shenzen factory owner, an indian tech entrepreneur, your average venezuelan govt bureaucrat, or a REIT. 10k is not peanuts to the average wage earner in the US. The former all buy in USA to keep their wealth safe from confiscation and leverage the US justice system and FDIC. Because back in their home countries they are 1 election away from communism or a bank collapse. We have no adequate means to raise the cost of entry for them, and mentioning change to favor local purchases, is almost taboo. Meanwhile, we say "tax the rich" here. Yet foreigners keep loading up on real estate and US citizens end up renting forever..
  - ericd 4y ago
    That’s what happens when we live well beyond our means for decades and trade dollars for real goods - those dollars come back to buy up assets.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > real estate taxes as they are today are not a factor to seriously dent foreign or corporate wealth from vacuuming all properties available That can be fixed - namely, via land value taxation, at a rate as close to 100% as possible.
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      Great. Now retired grandma , who happened to buy a house in a forgotten part of town that suddenly became a bohemian mecca, is stuck with high taxes. She can't move because she doesnt know how to drive and can't take a bus in the suburbs...now must pay half her retired in come due to land value taxation. This literally describes 2 people I know. Grandma didn't do anything to you or me. Why would you punish granma who just want to live out her retirement ? Why not just go after the foreign demand to hide cash, making housing expensive for everyone else ?
dpkirchner 4y ago
Do you have a sense of how many properties are owned by folks from other countries, as a percentage of the total housing stock? The national association of realtors[0] put out a press release saying their purchases accounted for about 1.6% from April 2021 through March 2022, however it's not clear from their figures whether that is all existing homes or a mix of new and existing. If that is right that doesn't seem too bad, at least for a year. Dunno what the total ownership stats say. 0: https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-in-u-s-existing-home-sales-climbed-8-5-to-59-billion-ending-three-year-slide https://www.nar.realtor/newsroom/annual-foreign-investment-i...
- christkv 4y ago
  I bet that 1.6 are mostly in high cost areas like the coasts pushing up prices.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
spacemadness 4y ago
That’s a lot of whatabouts. I’m not sure why you’re attacking the previous poster who obviously wants people to be taxed.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  Because he wants to freece people that mostly work and do productive things for a living, and meanwhile (some) randos come to the US with stacks of cash derived from US foreign aid, from selling copycat goods on amazon, from selling govt offices in their home country, or with wads of cash from straight up corruption / criminal activity... and they get the white glove treatment. A non-us citizen real estate tax (in the style of NZ) is like the 3rd rail of politics. God forbid anyone daring to mention a ~200% FV tax on any residential property purchase by a non-us citizen.
maybelsyrup 4y ago
If coercing the wealthy on housing issues constitutes “fleecing”, then I’ll take several sweaters, please. > but others you let just... walk in ? My guy we can do both, we can fleece all the third and fourth home owners, foreign and domestic, it’ll be glorious, join us
bill_joy_fanboy 4y ago
> You want to fleece your own... but others you let just... walk in ? Sorry for the late reply... No, I don't want these people to just "walk in." I support BTFO'ing all of the above people with punitive taxes. I might give the SV bros a pass if they only have one house that is their primary residence or maybe one other place. It's the people (and organizations) who have many properties who frustrate me.

refurb 4y ago

> This is exactly his point. If he can't make it with what he has going for him, who can? Presumably they are living in a HCOL area, so definitely not indicative of life in America in general. I know a few folks who live in the mid-west (typically derided as "fly over country") who have blue collar jobs making $70,000 who bought a house in their twenties. You're not going to get too much sympathy from them when you're making 3-5x their salary and complain you can't afford a $1.5M single family home in the most expensive cities in the US.

Eisenstein 4y ago
> You're not going to get too much sympathy from them Why not? That someone makes much more than someone else and endures a higher cost of living does not establish anything other than that the people who work those kinds of jobs want to live in those kinds of places (or the companies want to be there but it is hard to disentangle the two). Lack of sympathy because someone is in a different situation seems somewhat course considering that there are problems which either party does not experience but are objectively bad and should be remedied. Because they are different does not mean they are less impactful to quality of life.
- refurb 4y ago
  > Because they are different does not mean they are less impactful to quality of life. No, sorry. Both might be "struggling", but there is a massive difference between "I make $500,000 per year and can't buy a $3M home" and "I make $60,000 per year and can't afford a $300,000 home." The person making $500,000 per year in another stratosphere of economic wealth that someone who makes $60,000 can't even fathom. It's like someone who makes $1M per year complaining they can't afford a private jet. Sure, they are experiencing an "impact to their quality of life", but no, it's nowhere close to the same situation, hence they get no sympathy from people who have actual financial difficulties.
  - Eisenstein 4y ago
    Comparing a home to a private jet is not valid. Of course life in HCOL areas is 'better', that is one reason why they are so expensive, but to compare someone who cannot afford a home in the city they work in with a millionaire ($500K/year is kind of ridiculous, I think $100 - 300K is more realistic) is not fair. Please open your mind a bit more and consider that treating people without sympathy tends to get you no sympathy in return, and I would wager mid-westerner's could use some as well.

dclowd9901 4y ago

Great, yes. I do that too. Also, I live somewhere that falls well below my salary (COL wise) and I live beneath my means. I don’t live poor or poorly, but I don’t live like a hundred-thousandaire like we all used to see around 2008. There is happiness and fulfillment to be found in a very reasonable dedication range. I work, like WORK work barely 5 hours a week from home and make $300k a year. My company is over the moon with my contributions. I didn’t graduate last year. I put in the work, learned the craft and I have valuable contributions to give from my experiences. You will too someday. But right now you need to learn.