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This is happening already with PatronScan which is being pushed agressively into schools, and bars: https://scribe.nixnet.services/id-at-the-door-meet-the-secur
by monksy 4y ago
This is happening already with PatronScan which is being pushed agressively into schools, and bars: https://scribe.nixnet.services/id-at-the-door-meet-the-security-company-building-an-international-database-of-banned-bar-patrons-7c6d4b236fc3 https://scribe.nixnet.services/id-at-the-door-meet-the-secur...
There have been references to the ban lists going from one venue to another.
- Nifty3929 4y agoCan you imagine getting into an argument with a bartender and being asked to leave - and then you can't go into any other bars either? Yikes! Reminds me of the hidden low-level-banking-employee blacklist that some would end up on for not forcing enough customers into expensive products they didn't need. Or the opiate painkiller registry that doctors use to centrally track folks who come to them for painkillers, and which by the way counts any painkillers you might have gotten from the vet for your dog. Fewer central registries please!
- lmm 4y agoBlacklisting is something we already recognise as wrong; banning who you want from your own establishment is fine, but passing around a list of people and banning them on someone else's say-so isn't. Perhaps the laws against it should be enforced, or strengthened.
- Nifty3929 4y agoI don't know of any laws against this at all, at least in the United States.
- bigwavedave 4y agoThe parent may be referring to employment laws; google claims 29 states have made blacklisting illegal in an employment context.
- Scoundreller 4y agoGonna be fun at the e-gate when I’m both banned and employed by a store/bar/restaurant/mall simultaneously
- jsjohnst 4y agoLaws around collusion might vaguely apply, but it would be a real stretch imho.
- ryandrake 4y agoI think in many contexts this would be desirable. If someone was belligerent and gets banned for starting a fight on Delta airline, I wouldn't want to sit next to him on my United airline flight. Venues should have the freedom to use whatever judgment/algorithm they feel will keep their customers safe, including sharing lists of troublemakers. If the list is too inaccurate, it stops doing its job and becomes a net-no-help to the venue using it.
- lmm 4y agoThat's how you end up with redlining or worse. It's too easy to slip a few "undesirables" into the list you're sharing, and as long as you don't do it too often then your list remains a net-positive so people keep doing it. (See also the guy who put his ex-wife on the no-fly list). For something like starting a fight, you can go by actual court records, which are public and have processes in place to correct them if they're wrong (and we have rules about e.g. when convictions should be expunged). Just sharing lists of names is too abusable.
- afandian 4y agoIt will be you one day, for a reason you don't agree with.
- _carbyau_ 4y agoThen one day you fart on an airplane and are no longer able to fly due to being a "troublemaker" that people wouldn't want to sit next to. A community of people aren't built around absolutism. They are built around give and take. You can't have your best day, every day.
- ryandrake 4y agoI didn't say anything about farting. I don't want to board an airplane with someone who has a history of assaulting people. If airlines could build an accurate list, I would have no problem with them sharing the list and effectively banning those people from flying. The "accurate" part I admit is the hard part to get right. As another replier suggested, maybe base it on public arrest records or something. But assuming it could be done accurately, of course it should be implemented. Do you want a loose cannon who has assaulted people in the past on a tin can with you at 50,000 feet? This isn't about having your best day. I've had many bad days, yet somehow never assaulted anyone.
- berniedurfee 4y agoExcept sometimes an establishment is part of a multinational conglomerate. Eventually some level of due process is going to be needed in certain instances.
- anon223345 4y agoStanford says don’t use the word blacklist as it’s harmful
- andrekandre 4y ago> There have been references to the ban lists going from one venue to another. seems like social-credit score without the score... how would anyone even know their "standing" in such a system?
- spritefs 4y ago> This is happening already with PatronScan which is being pushed agressively into schools, and bars The linked article mentions bars, where does the school bit come from?
- monksy 4y agoSchools are using id scans to ban people and prevent sex offenders from entry (yes.. It's good.. But some of those people have kids enrolled). This has been rolled out heavily already. (I believe this is called rapidscan)
- tremon 4y agoyes.. It's good Please keep in mind that some people on the sex offender registry are only there because they were peeing in public, or because they were sexting while underage.
- anothernewdude 4y agoThis breaks some of the requirements of the liquor licensing, where they may have to serve all members of the public.