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I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across

I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. Imagine a family with a new born, working 50+ hours at a physically demanding job, making $80k/yr combined, and then losing their home for no reason... and then being expected to do everything else right while dealing quietly. Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Not sure of constructive ways to prevent this more broadly.

mbg721 4y ago
The fact that people experience this and then somehow don't say "burn it all down" is miraculous.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  I was unable to obtain a government backed mortgage for a decade because LexisNexis Risk Solutions was reporting a judgement inaccurately on my risk profile that they would not remove until I had a lawyer file suit against them and notified the CFPB. I received a $600 check as part of a $21M class action settlement [1]. I was lucky, and had the means to obtain creative financing (non-QM) when needed. Others are not so lucky. I share this story because once you have experienced something like this, it is totally understandable why people want to burn parts of the system down. Sometimes, they’re not wrong. There is a special place in hell for the people behind these corporate transgressions, who seemingly never face sufficient punishment for the harm they cause. [1] https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/ https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/
  - mbg721 4y ago
    I agree 100%; what can a layman like me do to fix it?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      You’re not going to like my answer. I don’t like my answer. It’s never ending work. Always vote, run for office if you can, and/or become and stay engaged as a citizen activist. See something? Report it to regulators. Think something’s up? Go digging. Engage with other folks who are doing the same and provide logistical support if able to. I spend thousands of dollars a year on FOIA fees and attorney opinion and correspondence costs, but I have the means and the time. Overarching thesis is “Find someone to help and help them.” -DeviantOllam [1] of “Lawyer. Passport. Locksmith. Gun.” Saintcon talk fame [2]. [1] https://twitter.com/deviantollam https://twitter.com/deviantollam [2] https://youtu.be/6ihrGNGesfI https://youtu.be/6ihrGNGesfI
      - mbg721 4y ago
        I think the answer I was expecting was that it's a two-step process: 1) Be lucky, and 2) Don't be unlucky. My next-door neighbor is actually a local politician, but her party affiliation is the one I dislike, so I'm getting a life-lesson in humility.
        toomuchtodo 4y ago
        I’ve never been good at delivering bad news, my apologies. Talk to your neighbor and explore a run for office if it interests you. Actually wanting to be engaged is the first step, and it sounds like you want to. No one is coming to save us, it’s just us.
    - droopyEyelids 4y ago
      I don't know if this is what you intend, but it sounds like you're baiting an answer about vigilante style "justice" to the executives/board members of these misbehaving corporations. That would be counterproductive and probably only cause them to treat us with less empathy than they do already.
      - johnfn 4y ago
        I'm not advocating for "vigilante justice" either, but if that's the clearest / first thought you have when someone authentically asks "what can I do," that's probably a problem :P
  - Kye 4y ago
    The CFPB is so good. It's one of a small number of federal agencies that actually has teeth. I went 30 rounds with PNC after they devoured what was left of Simple before someone suggested filing a CFPB complaint. Basically, I received some mail for the account despite being assured it was closed before the Simple closure. I asked for a letter stating in no uncertain terms that the account was closed and that I wouldn't be liable for anything if they screwed up. They bombarded me with emails and calls for a week trying to avoid working through the CFPB before finally answering the complaint with what I asked for. I was adamant that it happen with the CFPB so their statement would be on file. Now the PDF is there if the bank gives me any trouble. People report similar success filing FCC complaints to get action from phone companies and ISPs that otherwise ignore them.
    - roughly 4y ago
      > The CFPB is so good. It's one of a small number of federal agencies that actually has teeth. Naturally, the GOP has been trying to gut it for years.
- sophacles 4y ago
  They often do say "burn it all down".... But in the process of losing their home and car they end up homeless or in public housing. Since "everyone" knows folks on the streets and on welfare/assistance programs are just scum who are gaming the system to take away what hard-working, honest people earn (in the form of taxes), their pleas are ignored. Ever wonder why the rich folks are often the loudest about that sort of framing? It's (in part anyway) because it lets them get away with the sort of shenanigans Well's Fargo just got slapped on the wrist for.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  I just watched a younger man bring his elderly and handicapped father into a Planet Fitness to take a shower because they were both homeless. I am homeless as well. That fine should all go to ending homlessness. And if you vote for the D or R you are voting for the same party; the O Party, as in Oligarchs.
  - azemetre 4y ago
    I'm sorry but if one thing America should have learned over the last six years is that the two parties are nothing alike, equating them as the same and making a poor faith effort that voting is useless is extremely moronic.
    - kelipso 4y ago
      It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs...if you're wealthy enough, you can afford to distinguish between the two parties; if you're not, the two parties are the exact same.
      - Zigurd 4y ago
        I sympathize with that view, but nearly every decision you make, every day, at every price level, about everything, is a choice between flawed alternatives.
        kelipso 4y ago
        Sure they're different, my point being people only care about the differences once they've reached a certain comfort level.
    - pxc 4y ago
      Neither party is willing to solve homelessness by actually fucking housing people, and you're calling a homeless person a moron because their assessment of the two parties which, to avoid disturbing the existing economic order, mutually assent to that permanent state of crisis, doesn't include enough conciliatory language for you about how Orange Man Bad? Jesus Christ.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  It's only a matter of time before that miracle starts to wear off - assuming it hasn't already started to wear off.
willcipriano 4y ago
I'm reminded of this song by the late Trevor Moore: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY
- pksebben 4y ago
  what an incredible loss. he was a national treasure.
threads2 4y ago
Reminds me of It's a Wonderful Life.
Meekro 4y ago
I get what you mean, but what's the alternative? How should you behave if you're exempt from normal social boundaries because of your personal tragedy? Shout at random people? Throw things? Punch some guy in the face? Seems to me it's better to try and be kind, and treat others right despite your horrible situation. The person you're treating cruelly because of your personal trauma could easily be going through a trauma worse than yours. Apologies if I misunderstood what you were getting at, though. I wasn't clear on which social boundaries you'd propose to exempt people from.
- obblekk 4y ago
  Good question, but I don't know. I'm not trying to recommend anything. Not sure it's even solvable. Reading this article prompted this observation about myself. I do wonder how often I have been wrong to get frustrated with someone, rather than extend more grace. I'll try to remember to consider this in the future.
- kodyo 4y ago
  Banks would rightly collapse if people took their business to credit unions. No random violence required.
  - pksebben 4y ago
    the issue is that it's really, really hard to get that message out to everyone and have them understand the importance and the reasoning. to paraphrase Frank Herbert, it is the mark of a human that they will remain in the trap, that they can kill the hunter and thus remove a threat to their species.
  - dimitrios1 4y ago
    Credit unions are all the rage when the economy is roaring, but they are typically the first to run into issues or fold on first sight of troubled waters. Their history is full of examples of having to be rescued by the federal government, including all the times commercial banks had to be rescued. The main difference in my view is struggling commercial banks get absorbed, where as struggling credit unions close. I am not sure which one is better, but I am wary of all the calls to go all in on credit unions. They've been available for almost a century now. They have a noble goal in that they've always tried to serve those in need, but I am not sure they are the solution.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> then losing their home for no reason Do we have more detail on how these homes were lost? It sounds like Wells Fargo refused, improperly, to modify a mortgage.
- dehrmann 4y ago
  This is what it said > On home loans, the CFPB said the bank improperly denied mortgage modifications over a seven-year span, with some customers losing their homes. This says it started in 2011 (maybe earlier). If they already had a mortgage, in a good labor and good housing market, I doubt that many people actually lost their homes who wouldn't lose them anyway. Mortgage modifications are for people already behind on their payments.
mrtksn 4y ago
I have a question, do people really protest in designated areas in the US? I know sometimes there are riots but from what I can see on the media it looks like people gather somewhere close to the subject and chant and wave banners. I find it strange because in Europe the norm is to disturb the daily life. Farmers spray policemen with milk, train operators stop working, the younger and more anarchist ones burn cars and clash with the police, the more pacifist ones tie or glue themselves to something making a huge scene.
- cool_dude85 4y ago
  In the US, the police (and people not involved in the protests) will happily beat you up, run you over, or shoot and kill you for disruptive protests.
  - AYBABTME 4y ago
    I mean, they won't just happily do _all_ of that. You're exaggerating a bit and using extreme cases as if they were the norm. In particular you may say this with a straight face only if you're unaware of how this actually is the common reality of other countries. We've all heard of cases of police running over crowds in some circumstances, or of the odd shooting (actually when?). But that's not what the average protester in the US will realistically, honestly deal with on the average protest.
    - sophacles 4y ago
      I've participated in quite a bit of peaceful protesting. I've never been shot at, but the number of times I've been teargassed for being in a park or on a sidewalk during the "permitted hours" and in the "designated zone" is much higher than the expected 0.
    - Maxious 4y ago
      At least 830 documented incidents in 2020 including over 140 police violence incidents against journalists specifically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incide... There have been 104 incidents of vehicles driving into protests between May 27 and September 27, 2020, with two fatalities in that time period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vehicle-ramming_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vehicle-ramming_incide...
aschearer 4y ago
A long time ago someone wrote, "they have nothing to lose but their chains" and predicted massive social upheaval as a result. That person felt this was an inevitable consequence of capitalism and its tendency to concentrate wealth. I suspect they were imagining people like in your example, only worse off. Maybe redirecting that anger against another segment of society is a way to avoid social upheaval while maintaining the status quo? That anger does seem prone to being co-opted, though.
- groffee 4y ago
  That "person" was Rousseau and his writings contributed to the French Revolution.
  - aschearer 4y ago
    Close. It was Marx I was thinking of. Not endorsing him, but it's interesting to consider historical materialism and today's events -- especially in light of the parent's comment.
_8j50 4y ago
It is with bitterness and misery people learn that sometimes violence is neccessary.
mymacbook 4y ago
I agree, but why do we need to make it 50+ hours? What if they only worked 35 hours a week with horrible shifts at different times and no consistency at a non-physically demanding job? Work is still work unless you’re living your passion, the mainstream outside of tech work to put food on the table and they put up with a lot compared to the worst days we have in tech. Anyway just frustrated lately with this idea you have to work 60 or 80 hours a week instead of strategically.
- pc86 4y ago
  Not the GP but I use 50+ hours as an example often because most people have worked unpaid overtime at one point in their life. Most people haven't done your strangely specific multi-job 35 hour thing. It's about having a relatable example, that's it.
walrus01 4y ago
> I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. It makes one realize that if you were put in such a disastrous position in life, the theoretical concept of an armed marxist uprising is not the most absurd thing ever conceived. And what root causes might possibly motivate groups of people towards such a thing. The other poster replying to the same thread here says: > " The fact that people experience this and then somehow don't say "burn it all down" is miraculous. "
sizzle 4y ago
I can’t even afford a home right now on a tech salary with sky high rent paying off my landlords 2% refi’d mortgage and student loans making it impossible at 6-7% fed interest rate hikes and inflated home prices after the insane COVID housing price bubble increase. I feel like life won’t start for another 5+ years for people like me, unless we gamble on being underwater on an inflated mortgage entering at the peak of the housing market paying more for a fraction of the home you could get just 1-2 year ago. You can’t even refi an underwater mortgage, anyone have anny advice for people in my unenviable position?
- nerdponx 4y ago
  Same here. I wasn't financially prepared to buy a house at insanely inflated Covid prices while interest rates were down in the 2% range, and I'm not excited to to buy a house at 7% while prices are still substantially higher than pre-Covid levels. Meanwhile rentals for anything other than a tiny box are just as expensive as a mortgage at those rates. I don't understand how people who do not have 6-figure tech salaries are expected to have anything other than a poverty lifestyle when housing is so expensive. I also don't understand these well-dressed young families parading around Boston and New York with their expensive baby carriages and $75k SUVs. Did I miss a memo on how to get rich at 30? Are they all going broke living like that? Did they all inherit a lot of money? Do they live in tiny apartments?
  - algog 4y ago
    You and me both. Please share the memo when you it.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    You would be surprised at how much family help those families often have. I’m not talking generational wealth. Often just upper middle class parents who saved prudently and did well in the real estate market who can afford to gift $500,000 for a house.
    - nerdponx 4y ago
mistermann 4y ago
> Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Not sure of constructive ways to prevent this more broadly. One useful thing a person could do is try to come up with a means of teaching a larger percentage of the population to have the ability to think in the manner that you have here. It is a very tricky problem space, but the payoffs could be huge.
77pt77 4y ago
> there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly I don't get this. Would it make it any different if they weren't "hard working people"? If so, how and why? If not, why even mention that?
lkrubner 4y ago
There are systems of voting that would allow voters to both "protest vote" and yet also vote for policy. So-called "approval voting" (where the voter gets an infinite number of votes) helps mute the damage done by blind-rage protest voting, and can help discover the signal sent by voters, regarding policy: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/should-a-system-of-voting-aim-to https://demodexio.substack.com/p/should-a-system-of-voting-a...
eyelidlessness 4y ago
I don’t know how to say this that isn’t going to come off judgmental, but I’ll try: thank you for trying to see past your role and understand the people who are affected whether you could have any impact or not. It’s more than most people do.
dclowd9901 4y ago
Protest voting is shouting into a void. Cognizant voting is voting in a way that supports your beliefs and their place in the world. If you don’t see a representative who represents your beliefs, then you need to consider running for office yourself.
idontwantthis 4y ago
> Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Hell, it makes me understand arson and kidnapping.

mbg721 4y ago

The fact that people experience this and then somehow don't say "burn it all down" is miraculous.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
I was unable to obtain a government backed mortgage for a decade because LexisNexis Risk Solutions was reporting a judgement inaccurately on my risk profile that they would not remove until I had a lawyer file suit against them and notified the CFPB. I received a $600 check as part of a $21M class action settlement [1]. I was lucky, and had the means to obtain creative financing (non-QM) when needed. Others are not so lucky. I share this story because once you have experienced something like this, it is totally understandable why people want to burn parts of the system down. Sometimes, they’re not wrong. There is a special place in hell for the people behind these corporate transgressions, who seemingly never face sufficient punishment for the harm they cause. [1] https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/ https://www.lienandjudgmentdisputes.com/lang/en/
- mbg721 4y ago
  I agree 100%; what can a layman like me do to fix it?
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    You’re not going to like my answer. I don’t like my answer. It’s never ending work. Always vote, run for office if you can, and/or become and stay engaged as a citizen activist. See something? Report it to regulators. Think something’s up? Go digging. Engage with other folks who are doing the same and provide logistical support if able to. I spend thousands of dollars a year on FOIA fees and attorney opinion and correspondence costs, but I have the means and the time. Overarching thesis is “Find someone to help and help them.” -DeviantOllam [1] of “Lawyer. Passport. Locksmith. Gun.” Saintcon talk fame [2]. [1] https://twitter.com/deviantollam https://twitter.com/deviantollam [2] https://youtu.be/6ihrGNGesfI https://youtu.be/6ihrGNGesfI
    - mbg721 4y ago
      I think the answer I was expecting was that it's a two-step process: 1) Be lucky, and 2) Don't be unlucky. My next-door neighbor is actually a local politician, but her party affiliation is the one I dislike, so I'm getting a life-lesson in humility.
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        I’ve never been good at delivering bad news, my apologies. Talk to your neighbor and explore a run for office if it interests you. Actually wanting to be engaged is the first step, and it sounds like you want to. No one is coming to save us, it’s just us.
  - droopyEyelids 4y ago
    I don't know if this is what you intend, but it sounds like you're baiting an answer about vigilante style "justice" to the executives/board members of these misbehaving corporations. That would be counterproductive and probably only cause them to treat us with less empathy than they do already.
    - johnfn 4y ago
      I'm not advocating for "vigilante justice" either, but if that's the clearest / first thought you have when someone authentically asks "what can I do," that's probably a problem :P
- Kye 4y ago
  The CFPB is so good. It's one of a small number of federal agencies that actually has teeth. I went 30 rounds with PNC after they devoured what was left of Simple before someone suggested filing a CFPB complaint. Basically, I received some mail for the account despite being assured it was closed before the Simple closure. I asked for a letter stating in no uncertain terms that the account was closed and that I wouldn't be liable for anything if they screwed up. They bombarded me with emails and calls for a week trying to avoid working through the CFPB before finally answering the complaint with what I asked for. I was adamant that it happen with the CFPB so their statement would be on file. Now the PDF is there if the bank gives me any trouble. People report similar success filing FCC complaints to get action from phone companies and ISPs that otherwise ignore them.
  - roughly 4y ago
    > The CFPB is so good. It's one of a small number of federal agencies that actually has teeth. Naturally, the GOP has been trying to gut it for years.
sophacles 4y ago
They often do say "burn it all down".... But in the process of losing their home and car they end up homeless or in public housing. Since "everyone" knows folks on the streets and on welfare/assistance programs are just scum who are gaming the system to take away what hard-working, honest people earn (in the form of taxes), their pleas are ignored. Ever wonder why the rich folks are often the loudest about that sort of framing? It's (in part anyway) because it lets them get away with the sort of shenanigans Well's Fargo just got slapped on the wrist for.
FollowingTheDao 4y ago
I just watched a younger man bring his elderly and handicapped father into a Planet Fitness to take a shower because they were both homeless. I am homeless as well. That fine should all go to ending homlessness. And if you vote for the D or R you are voting for the same party; the O Party, as in Oligarchs.
- azemetre 4y ago
  I'm sorry but if one thing America should have learned over the last six years is that the two parties are nothing alike, equating them as the same and making a poor faith effort that voting is useless is extremely moronic.
  - kelipso 4y ago
    It's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs...if you're wealthy enough, you can afford to distinguish between the two parties; if you're not, the two parties are the exact same.
    - Zigurd 4y ago
      I sympathize with that view, but nearly every decision you make, every day, at every price level, about everything, is a choice between flawed alternatives.
      - kelipso 4y ago
        Sure they're different, my point being people only care about the differences once they've reached a certain comfort level.
  - pxc 4y ago
    Neither party is willing to solve homelessness by actually fucking housing people, and you're calling a homeless person a moron because their assessment of the two parties which, to avoid disturbing the existing economic order, mutually assent to that permanent state of crisis, doesn't include enough conciliatory language for you about how Orange Man Bad? Jesus Christ.
yellowapple 4y ago
It's only a matter of time before that miracle starts to wear off - assuming it hasn't already started to wear off.

willcipriano 4y ago

I'm reminded of this song by the late Trevor Moore: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMHCw3RqulY

pksebben 4y ago
what an incredible loss. he was a national treasure.

threads2 4y ago

Reminds me of It's a Wonderful Life.

Meekro 4y ago

I get what you mean, but what's the alternative? How should you behave if you're exempt from normal social boundaries because of your personal tragedy? Shout at random people? Throw things? Punch some guy in the face? Seems to me it's better to try and be kind, and treat others right despite your horrible situation. The person you're treating cruelly because of your personal trauma could easily be going through a trauma worse than yours. Apologies if I misunderstood what you were getting at, though. I wasn't clear on which social boundaries you'd propose to exempt people from.

obblekk 4y ago
Good question, but I don't know. I'm not trying to recommend anything. Not sure it's even solvable. Reading this article prompted this observation about myself. I do wonder how often I have been wrong to get frustrated with someone, rather than extend more grace. I'll try to remember to consider this in the future.
kodyo 4y ago
Banks would rightly collapse if people took their business to credit unions. No random violence required.
- pksebben 4y ago
  the issue is that it's really, really hard to get that message out to everyone and have them understand the importance and the reasoning. to paraphrase Frank Herbert, it is the mark of a human that they will remain in the trap, that they can kill the hunter and thus remove a threat to their species.
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  Credit unions are all the rage when the economy is roaring, but they are typically the first to run into issues or fold on first sight of troubled waters. Their history is full of examples of having to be rescued by the federal government, including all the times commercial banks had to be rescued. The main difference in my view is struggling commercial banks get absorbed, where as struggling credit unions close. I am not sure which one is better, but I am wary of all the calls to go all in on credit unions. They've been available for almost a century now. They have a noble goal in that they've always tried to serve those in need, but I am not sure they are the solution.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> then losing their home for no reason Do we have more detail on how these homes were lost? It sounds like Wells Fargo refused, improperly, to modify a mortgage.

dehrmann 4y ago
This is what it said > On home loans, the CFPB said the bank improperly denied mortgage modifications over a seven-year span, with some customers losing their homes. This says it started in 2011 (maybe earlier). If they already had a mortgage, in a good labor and good housing market, I doubt that many people actually lost their homes who wouldn't lose them anyway. Mortgage modifications are for people already behind on their payments.

mrtksn 4y ago

I have a question, do people really protest in designated areas in the US? I know sometimes there are riots but from what I can see on the media it looks like people gather somewhere close to the subject and chant and wave banners. I find it strange because in Europe the norm is to disturb the daily life. Farmers spray policemen with milk, train operators stop working, the younger and more anarchist ones burn cars and clash with the police, the more pacifist ones tie or glue themselves to something making a huge scene.

cool_dude85 4y ago
In the US, the police (and people not involved in the protests) will happily beat you up, run you over, or shoot and kill you for disruptive protests.
- AYBABTME 4y ago
  I mean, they won't just happily do _all_ of that. You're exaggerating a bit and using extreme cases as if they were the norm. In particular you may say this with a straight face only if you're unaware of how this actually is the common reality of other countries. We've all heard of cases of police running over crowds in some circumstances, or of the odd shooting (actually when?). But that's not what the average protester in the US will realistically, honestly deal with on the average protest.
  - sophacles 4y ago
    I've participated in quite a bit of peaceful protesting. I've never been shot at, but the number of times I've been teargassed for being in a park or on a sidewalk during the "permitted hours" and in the "designated zone" is much higher than the expected 0.
  - Maxious 4y ago
    At least 830 documented incidents in 2020 including over 140 police violence incidents against journalists specifically. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_violence_incide... There have been 104 incidents of vehicles driving into protests between May 27 and September 27, 2020, with two fatalities in that time period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vehicle-ramming_incidents_during_George_Floyd_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vehicle-ramming_incide...

aschearer 4y ago

A long time ago someone wrote, "they have nothing to lose but their chains" and predicted massive social upheaval as a result. That person felt this was an inevitable consequence of capitalism and its tendency to concentrate wealth. I suspect they were imagining people like in your example, only worse off. Maybe redirecting that anger against another segment of society is a way to avoid social upheaval while maintaining the status quo? That anger does seem prone to being co-opted, though.

groffee 4y ago
That "person" was Rousseau and his writings contributed to the French Revolution.
- aschearer 4y ago
  Close. It was Marx I was thinking of. Not endorsing him, but it's interesting to consider historical materialism and today's events -- especially in light of the parent's comment.

_8j50 4y ago

It is with bitterness and misery people learn that sometimes violence is neccessary.

mymacbook 4y ago

I agree, but why do we need to make it 50+ hours? What if they only worked 35 hours a week with horrible shifts at different times and no consistency at a non-physically demanding job? Work is still work unless you’re living your passion, the mainstream outside of tech work to put food on the table and they put up with a lot compared to the worst days we have in tech. Anyway just frustrated lately with this idea you have to work 60 or 80 hours a week instead of strategically.

pc86 4y ago
Not the GP but I use 50+ hours as an example often because most people have worked unpaid overtime at one point in their life. Most people haven't done your strangely specific multi-job 35 hour thing. It's about having a relatable example, that's it.

walrus01 4y ago

> I feel so much cognitive dissonance realizing that there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly while I might be sitting across from them at any time, expecting them to behave within normal social boundaries. It makes one realize that if you were put in such a disastrous position in life, the theoretical concept of an armed marxist uprising is not the most absurd thing ever conceived. And what root causes might possibly motivate groups of people towards such a thing. The other poster replying to the same thread here says: > " The fact that people experience this and then somehow don't say "burn it all down" is miraculous. "

sizzle 4y ago

I can’t even afford a home right now on a tech salary with sky high rent paying off my landlords 2% refi’d mortgage and student loans making it impossible at 6-7% fed interest rate hikes and inflated home prices after the insane COVID housing price bubble increase. I feel like life won’t start for another 5+ years for people like me, unless we gamble on being underwater on an inflated mortgage entering at the peak of the housing market paying more for a fraction of the home you could get just 1-2 year ago. You can’t even refi an underwater mortgage, anyone have anny advice for people in my unenviable position?

nerdponx 4y ago
Same here. I wasn't financially prepared to buy a house at insanely inflated Covid prices while interest rates were down in the 2% range, and I'm not excited to to buy a house at 7% while prices are still substantially higher than pre-Covid levels. Meanwhile rentals for anything other than a tiny box are just as expensive as a mortgage at those rates. I don't understand how people who do not have 6-figure tech salaries are expected to have anything other than a poverty lifestyle when housing is so expensive. I also don't understand these well-dressed young families parading around Boston and New York with their expensive baby carriages and $75k SUVs. Did I miss a memo on how to get rich at 30? Are they all going broke living like that? Did they all inherit a lot of money? Do they live in tiny apartments?
- algog 4y ago
  You and me both. Please share the memo when you it.
- rayiner 4y ago
  You would be surprised at how much family help those families often have. I’m not talking generational wealth. Often just upper middle class parents who saved prudently and did well in the real estate market who can afford to gift $500,000 for a house.
  - nerdponx 4y ago

mistermann 4y ago

> Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Not sure of constructive ways to prevent this more broadly. One useful thing a person could do is try to come up with a means of teaching a larger percentage of the population to have the ability to think in the manner that you have here. It is a very tricky problem space, but the payoffs could be huge.

77pt77 4y ago

> there are hard working people literally losing their home and shelter wrongly I don't get this. Would it make it any different if they weren't "hard working people"? If so, how and why? If not, why even mention that?

lkrubner 4y ago

There are systems of voting that would allow voters to both "protest vote" and yet also vote for policy. So-called "approval voting" (where the voter gets an infinite number of votes) helps mute the damage done by blind-rage protest voting, and can help discover the signal sent by voters, regarding policy: https://demodexio.substack.com/p/should-a-system-of-voting-aim-to https://demodexio.substack.com/p/should-a-system-of-voting-a...

eyelidlessness 4y ago

I don’t know how to say this that isn’t going to come off judgmental, but I’ll try: thank you for trying to see past your role and understand the people who are affected whether you could have any impact or not. It’s more than most people do.

dclowd9901 4y ago

Protest voting is shouting into a void. Cognizant voting is voting in a way that supports your beliefs and their place in the world. If you don’t see a representative who represents your beliefs, then you need to consider running for office yourself.

idontwantthis 4y ago

> Incidents like this make it easier for me to understand "protest voting" against the system politically. Hell, it makes me understand arson and kidnapping.