5 ms·

US Postal Service to purchase 66,000 electric delivery vehicles in major shift

50 points by 1123581321 4y ago

exabrial 4y ago
FFS, or you know we could stop delivering billions of tons of spam? There is zero reason the Post Office needs this. The environment impact of the mail is immense... The impact of cutting down trees using diesel, processing the paper using fresh water, hauling the paper using diesel, printing, hauling the end product using diesel, throwing it away, then hauling the trash the landfill using diesel...
- tryptophan 4y ago
  Fun fact USPS has a mail category specifically for sending spam to people, and it is sold at prices far below cost of delivery. Yay for government run businesses.
  - skinnymuch 4y ago
    If USPS was a private company it would stop delivering where UPS and FedEx don’t deliver too. All three would obviously raise prices too. Yay for private capitalist businesses.
    - autoexec 4y ago
      You aren't wrong, but the solution should be to just cover the expenses of the USPS upfront with tax money instead of allowing them to take in funding by contributing to the destruction of our planet and stuffing all our mailboxes with literal trash. The USPS is an amazing service that absolutely deserves to be funded, but as long as we're paying for it, let's choose a method that would mean finally putting an end to all the crap in our mailboxes and eliminating all the waste in energy and resources spent carrying it all from the post office to the mailbox to the landfill.
      - skinnymuch 4y ago
        Oh for sure. This is America though. Economically it's as right wing as things get.
kennedy 4y ago
As much as I support USPS to upgrade their fleet, I dont think its a smart financial idea for USPS to fund Oshkosh for the development of their EVs. Partnering with already EV focused companies would be a better long term investment, because they would be funded by other companies looking for EV delivery vehicles. This would drive down cost per unit and long term support. Companies like Rivian with successful Amazon EDVs, or Canoo with their modular design (MPDV). Military contracting companies like Oshkosh would charge USPS so much money for long-term support, and creating an expensive co-dependence with USPS. USPS wont be able to escape because they would need them to maintain 66,000 bespoke EVs.
- diebeforei485 4y ago
  Does Rivian actually sell delivery vehicles to anyone other than Amazon?
  - Element_ 4y ago
    https://rivian.com/fleet https://rivian.com/fleet
  - dopylitty 4y ago
    I’m curious whether Rivian has an exclusivity deal with Amazon or if they’re totally maxed out capacity wise just producing the EDV. Watching the YouTube videos about the EDV I was thinking of that dogshit diesel Oshkosh thing the USPS ordered and shaking my head. The EDV is very Amazon tailored but if the USPS could front some cash to get another factory built and have Rivian produce a truck based on the EDV there I feel like that would be better than getting some electric motors bolted to an armored car like Oshkosh would provide.
    - kennedy 4y ago
      from the videos and articles I was able to find about the amazon EDV, amazon's investment stipulation was for Amazon to get first dibs on having their EDV manufactured and delivered first. Fortunately, it was not an exclusive platform for Amazon, anyone else can order it
wiseleo 4y ago
Great step in the right direction. USPS routes are local, low speed once near its destination, involve lots of stops, and are relatively short in terms of total length. Vehicles can recharge overnight. Sounds like the ideal definition of business suitable for EVs.
- Tempest1981 4y ago
  Yep, I've seen gasoline mail trucks in use - start engine, drive 100 ft (30m), turn off engine, deliver mail, start engine, repeat, repeat. What a waste. I'm always happy to see mail carriers who walk between homes.
tsol 4y ago
>The USPS is primarily looking to get its fleet from defense contractor Oshkosh, which will provide 60,000 vehicles, with 45,000 of them being electric. But the mail agency will also look to other automakers for another 46,000 vans, with 21,000 of those being EVs. >Podesta told The Washington Post he believes it will pressure other shipping and delivery companies “to up their game, too.” Some companies like FedEx have already reserved 2,500 electric delivery vans from GM-backed BrightDrop, and Amazon ordered 100,000 Rivian EVs to be on the road by 2030. Is a military contractor really the best solution we have for cars? As much as I love the headline, this feels like a handout to defense contractors
- dublinben 4y ago
  The previous vehicle, the Grumman LLV, was also produced by a defense contractor. It's part and parcel (no pun intended) of delivering an enormous government contract. Traditional automakers just aren't in this business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV
  - KptMarchewa 4y ago
    Why not just buy off the shelf vehicles like other posts or courier companies? Like Volkswagen Transporter, Mercedes Sprinter or Ford Transit if you want American
    - postalrat 4y ago
      Wiki says the LLV's chassis is from a chevy blazer. The engine is also from GM. The rest of it is modifications needed for its role.
      - Tanoc 4y ago
        The original LLV was designed as a custom body atop the Chevrolet S-10, including using the original drivetrain. Everything aside from the body comes from the S-10, hence why they were able to keep them on the road for so long. Even as simple as it was, the LLV was a major departure from the Jeep DJ-S, which was just a modified right hand drive Jeep CJ-5 with a sliding side door. In both cases the off the shelf parts available directly from the manufacturers extended the service of first two official USPS mail trucks well beyond their intended lives. Something which is unlikely with Oshkosh given the heavily custom nature of it. Refits to the LLV have included buying drop-in replacement LED headlights to replace the original square sealed beams since the form factor is a standardized part shared across the entire automotive industry from the 1970s onwards. Meanwhile the headlight assemblies for the NGDV are custom made, from the shrouds to the LED driver boards (an expensive problem shared with most headlights these days). We may have a similar problem to the Cadillac XLR's taillights where the driver boards make it infeasible to replace them.
dragontamer 4y ago
I understand that Li-ion production is limited, but I think USPS could be 100% Hybrid, PHEV, or Electric moving forward. I understand that EVs are boutique items that use lots of limited Li-ion cells. But Hybrid technology is very good these days, and USPS stop-and-go style movement only makes regenerative braking more important. Hybrid is the "lightest weight" style regenerative braking car, so I'd like to see Hybrids across the fleet. At a minimum.
jiggawatts 4y ago
The decision this reverses was to buy all-diesel trucks when everyone involved was screaming that electric makes the most sense. I can’t prove it, but the whole thing smelled very strongly of corruption. ”I’d like to save the world too, but I have friends that make diesel trucks.”
- Tanoc 4y ago
  DeJoy and a few of his peers have shares in Oshkosh. It makes sense that he would award the contract to Oshkosh, a military contractor, to build even more vehicles for the government. The more immediate problem putting aside the obvious favoritism is that Oshkosh had and effectively still has no ability to actually build passenger vehicles, and is reusing the drivetrains they use for their military vehicles. Meaning they're dirty, inefficient, and stupidly overbuilt diesels instead of batteries and in-hub electric motors that would benefit from stop and go routines all day, and charging at a central location in a fleet overnight.
- gregw2 4y ago
  With diesel, you don’t have any upfront huge capital and brainpower expenditure of retrofitting each of your facilities as multi-vehicle charging centers. Going electric is a real commitment.
gregw2 4y ago
It’s a good thing if done right. But there is the risk of greenwashing going on if we don’t track the details. Two things to consider: First, when someone announces a huge fleet of trucks being purchased, take note of whether they are upgrading the electrical facilities of their depots and on what timeframe. Charging a fleet at a local truck depot that previously didn’t use much electricity is a nontrivial problem. One shell game being played is that to meet some arbitrary/political deadline, they bring diesel generators on-site to charge the trucks. It’s a bit head-smacking but I’ve seen it discussed in trucking trade publications when reading about similar announcements. Second, if you are inferring a global-warming benefit from CO2 reduction from electric trucks, do note also that trucks at a depot charge at night when solar power from the grid is not available and factor accordingly. Huge industrial batteries could mitigate that but I am not sure what environmental costs they come at (pointers welcome.) Do the entities pony up the fiscal costs to support that too? When people start buying electric cars AND workplaces put chargers in parking lots such that solar power can be used to charge them during daylight (rather than at home, at night), the end to end system makes sense to me. But that’s a whole other topic. P.S. Yes I know wind and nukes work during the day…

50 points by 1123581321 4y ago

FFS, or you know we could stop delivering billions of tons of spam? There is zero reason the Post Office needs this. The environment impact of the mail is immense... The impact of cutting down trees using diesel, processing the paper using fresh water, hauling the paper using diesel, printing, hauling the end product using diesel, throwing it away, then hauling the trash the landfill using diesel...

tryptophan 4y ago
Fun fact USPS has a mail category specifically for sending spam to people, and it is sold at prices far below cost of delivery. Yay for government run businesses.
- skinnymuch 4y ago
  If USPS was a private company it would stop delivering where UPS and FedEx don’t deliver too. All three would obviously raise prices too. Yay for private capitalist businesses.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    You aren't wrong, but the solution should be to just cover the expenses of the USPS upfront with tax money instead of allowing them to take in funding by contributing to the destruction of our planet and stuffing all our mailboxes with literal trash. The USPS is an amazing service that absolutely deserves to be funded, but as long as we're paying for it, let's choose a method that would mean finally putting an end to all the crap in our mailboxes and eliminating all the waste in energy and resources spent carrying it all from the post office to the mailbox to the landfill.
    - skinnymuch 4y ago
      Oh for sure. This is America though. Economically it's as right wing as things get.

kennedy 4y ago

As much as I support USPS to upgrade their fleet, I dont think its a smart financial idea for USPS to fund Oshkosh for the development of their EVs. Partnering with already EV focused companies would be a better long term investment, because they would be funded by other companies looking for EV delivery vehicles. This would drive down cost per unit and long term support. Companies like Rivian with successful Amazon EDVs, or Canoo with their modular design (MPDV). Military contracting companies like Oshkosh would charge USPS so much money for long-term support, and creating an expensive co-dependence with USPS. USPS wont be able to escape because they would need them to maintain 66,000 bespoke EVs.

diebeforei485 4y ago
Does Rivian actually sell delivery vehicles to anyone other than Amazon?
- Element_ 4y ago
  https://rivian.com/fleet https://rivian.com/fleet
- dopylitty 4y ago
  I’m curious whether Rivian has an exclusivity deal with Amazon or if they’re totally maxed out capacity wise just producing the EDV. Watching the YouTube videos about the EDV I was thinking of that dogshit diesel Oshkosh thing the USPS ordered and shaking my head. The EDV is very Amazon tailored but if the USPS could front some cash to get another factory built and have Rivian produce a truck based on the EDV there I feel like that would be better than getting some electric motors bolted to an armored car like Oshkosh would provide.
  - kennedy 4y ago
    from the videos and articles I was able to find about the amazon EDV, amazon's investment stipulation was for Amazon to get first dibs on having their EDV manufactured and delivered first. Fortunately, it was not an exclusive platform for Amazon, anyone else can order it

wiseleo 4y ago

Great step in the right direction. USPS routes are local, low speed once near its destination, involve lots of stops, and are relatively short in terms of total length. Vehicles can recharge overnight. Sounds like the ideal definition of business suitable for EVs.

Tempest1981 4y ago
Yep, I've seen gasoline mail trucks in use - start engine, drive 100 ft (30m), turn off engine, deliver mail, start engine, repeat, repeat. What a waste. I'm always happy to see mail carriers who walk between homes.

tsol 4y ago

>The USPS is primarily looking to get its fleet from defense contractor Oshkosh, which will provide 60,000 vehicles, with 45,000 of them being electric. But the mail agency will also look to other automakers for another 46,000 vans, with 21,000 of those being EVs. >Podesta told The Washington Post he believes it will pressure other shipping and delivery companies “to up their game, too.” Some companies like FedEx have already reserved 2,500 electric delivery vans from GM-backed BrightDrop, and Amazon ordered 100,000 Rivian EVs to be on the road by 2030. Is a military contractor really the best solution we have for cars? As much as I love the headline, this feels like a handout to defense contractors

dublinben 4y ago
The previous vehicle, the Grumman LLV, was also produced by a defense contractor. It's part and parcel (no pun intended) of delivering an enormous government contract. Traditional automakers just aren't in this business. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV
- KptMarchewa 4y ago
  Why not just buy off the shelf vehicles like other posts or courier companies? Like Volkswagen Transporter, Mercedes Sprinter or Ford Transit if you want American
  - postalrat 4y ago
    Wiki says the LLV's chassis is from a chevy blazer. The engine is also from GM. The rest of it is modifications needed for its role.
    - Tanoc 4y ago
      The original LLV was designed as a custom body atop the Chevrolet S-10, including using the original drivetrain. Everything aside from the body comes from the S-10, hence why they were able to keep them on the road for so long. Even as simple as it was, the LLV was a major departure from the Jeep DJ-S, which was just a modified right hand drive Jeep CJ-5 with a sliding side door. In both cases the off the shelf parts available directly from the manufacturers extended the service of first two official USPS mail trucks well beyond their intended lives. Something which is unlikely with Oshkosh given the heavily custom nature of it. Refits to the LLV have included buying drop-in replacement LED headlights to replace the original square sealed beams since the form factor is a standardized part shared across the entire automotive industry from the 1970s onwards. Meanwhile the headlight assemblies for the NGDV are custom made, from the shrouds to the LED driver boards (an expensive problem shared with most headlights these days). We may have a similar problem to the Cadillac XLR's taillights where the driver boards make it infeasible to replace them.

dragontamer 4y ago

I understand that Li-ion production is limited, but I think USPS could be 100% Hybrid, PHEV, or Electric moving forward. I understand that EVs are boutique items that use lots of limited Li-ion cells. But Hybrid technology is very good these days, and USPS stop-and-go style movement only makes regenerative braking more important. Hybrid is the "lightest weight" style regenerative braking car, so I'd like to see Hybrids across the fleet. At a minimum.

jiggawatts 4y ago

The decision this reverses was to buy all-diesel trucks when everyone involved was screaming that electric makes the most sense. I can’t prove it, but the whole thing smelled very strongly of corruption. ”I’d like to save the world too, but I have friends that make diesel trucks.”

Tanoc 4y ago
DeJoy and a few of his peers have shares in Oshkosh. It makes sense that he would award the contract to Oshkosh, a military contractor, to build even more vehicles for the government. The more immediate problem putting aside the obvious favoritism is that Oshkosh had and effectively still has no ability to actually build passenger vehicles, and is reusing the drivetrains they use for their military vehicles. Meaning they're dirty, inefficient, and stupidly overbuilt diesels instead of batteries and in-hub electric motors that would benefit from stop and go routines all day, and charging at a central location in a fleet overnight.
gregw2 4y ago
With diesel, you don’t have any upfront huge capital and brainpower expenditure of retrofitting each of your facilities as multi-vehicle charging centers. Going electric is a real commitment.

gregw2 4y ago

It’s a good thing if done right. But there is the risk of greenwashing going on if we don’t track the details. Two things to consider: First, when someone announces a huge fleet of trucks being purchased, take note of whether they are upgrading the electrical facilities of their depots and on what timeframe. Charging a fleet at a local truck depot that previously didn’t use much electricity is a nontrivial problem. One shell game being played is that to meet some arbitrary/political deadline, they bring diesel generators on-site to charge the trucks. It’s a bit head-smacking but I’ve seen it discussed in trucking trade publications when reading about similar announcements. Second, if you are inferring a global-warming benefit from CO2 reduction from electric trucks, do note also that trucks at a depot charge at night when solar power from the grid is not available and factor accordingly. Huge industrial batteries could mitigate that but I am not sure what environmental costs they come at (pointers welcome.) Do the entities pony up the fiscal costs to support that too? When people start buying electric cars AND workplaces put chargers in parking lots such that solar power can be used to charge them during daylight (rather than at home, at night), the end to end system makes sense to me. But that’s a whole other topic. P.S. Yes I know wind and nukes work during the day…