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I would actively pay to fight such a movement. The world is full, yes it can be fuller but we are seriously cracking whole ecosystem and one of main reason is s

I would actively pay to fight such a movement. The world is full, yes it can be fuller but we are seriously cracking whole ecosystem and one of main reason is simply the amount of people living on this planet. If you prolong life say 2x it means Earth has 2x the population long term just due to this. Lets focus on serious issues hindering our growth as a race and not some vanity fears of few rich and powerful who think they are oh-so-special while they are not. Death is good on so many levels - equalizer that removes most horrible tyrants like Stalin who would easily burn whole world just to be immortal and stay on top. If you are a normal decent person you can't even comprehend mindset of such sociopaths and their eternal greed. Don't think there are few people like that in a generation, rather few millions, just with fewer options. Death also makes whole nations eventually forget wrongs on the past, otherwise we would still be hating mongols and huns and romans and swedes and british and slavers and germans as nazis etc. If for nothing else, just to remove threat of semi-eternal planetary dictator death is great. My grandparents from my dads side both died few months ago aged 94 and 95. They saw all their friends, neighbors and colleagues die decades ago, and they were witnessing same starting to happen to kids of those close people. They were both depressed from this, gradual loss of everything that has any long term meaning plus decline of everything health-related. It sucks to be the last living guy from say group of friends, you think you would find tons of solace in the fact you are still alive but thats not how reality on the ground looks like. People just wait for death to come and many prefer it comes soon.

jodrellblank 4y ago
You cite "Stalin bad" but Stalin only killed about 40,000/week for 30 years. You're talking of personally paying to support the deaths of everyone at the current world-wide all-cause death rate of 1,000,000/week, forever. Surely in some way that makes your plans infinitely worse than Stalin's? Imagine all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, all the veil of mourning and tears, the darkness your plans will cloud the surface of the Earth with. All the sobbing parents, grieving siblings, depressed grandparents and grandchildren. All because you don't want to bother inventing an orbital ring or an arcology tower or society where suicide by choice is the accepted way out. > "removes most horrible tyrants like Stalin" "we" could still kill him; immortal or ageless doesn't necessarily mean invincible.
- m4rtink 4y ago
  Exactly - this obsession with planets it toxic, you see it all the time. People just consider Earth as the only available finite resource and thus take some problems as unsolvable and a lot of suffering as normal and unavoidable. All the while the are almost endless resources and options how to solve these issues waiting in the solar system! Its like hauling old people to the mountains to die because your village can't support them. We got over that & we should should get over our current terrestrial problems as well by moving on and expanding out of our cradle.
  - mmustapic 4y ago
    The energy needed to move millions to a different planet is enormous with current physics. So, until you solve that, the obsession with Earth is not toxic, it's realistic.
    - TeMPOraL 4y ago
      It's not enormous, it's just significant compared to our current production/use, but here's the good news: there's more than enough energy for that available off planet. There's absurd amounts of energy available everywhere around us. Consider: it seems that we should be able to support a technological civilization of billions of people on renewable energy alone. That means literally on a fraction of the sunlight that Earth captures. Now, Sun isn't focusing on Earth, it's an omnidirectional emitter. Which means there's some 74 000 times more energy than Earth is receiving from the Sun available just in Earth's orbital band alone. Fortunately, space-related energy problems seem like they'll be solving themselves, in lock step with increased space capabilities.
    - jodrellblank 4y ago
      The Sun radiates about 400 trillion trillion Watts in all directions, and only a couple of billionths of it crosses Earth. There's a lot more radiant energy spreading out into the void waiting to be Dyson Swarmed. There's no way we're going to rocket launch billions to Mars, and there isn't another planet worth living on without unreasonable amounts of energy for Terraforming. But we are capable of rebuilding the atoms of Earth into much larger living environments - there are so many atoms it wouldn't mean destroying the Earth to do it. A Space Elevator doesn't need diamond nanowire, it could be built with enough steel chain. An orbital ring around the Equator would be enormous and would take approximately nothing of the Earth's matter to construct. Isaac Arthur's YouTube channel is full of speculation and plans for all kinds of possible or nearly-possible futures, as well as more distant dreams. e.g. the playlists: - "The future of Energy, Industry and Agriculture" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChTJHEdf6yM&list=PLIIOUpOge0LuntVwrflGX6q94zC3s5TXj https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChTJHEdf6yM&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Earth v2.0" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mRjsxQQJE&list=PLIIOUpOge0Lv9Y_4Vmcgaxue0jyZG3_4K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mRjsxQQJE&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Outward Bound" - near-Earth space exploration and living - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFOBoy2MZ8&list=PLIIOUpOge0LsIzYlIAIRdAGJTqAW6FmCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFOBoy2MZ8&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Visions of Earth" - arcologies, megacities, ecumenopolises, geoengineering, weather control - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54&list=PLIIOUpOge0Ls94qU9ZgTy3A-PbmRKKbV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54&list=PLIIOUpOge0... And somewhere in there, megastructures such as Dyson Spheres, ringworlds, etc.
amelius 4y ago
You should check out Hans Rosling's talk on overpopulation.
endtime 4y ago
This is what being a supervillain feels like from the inside.

jodrellblank 4y ago

You cite "Stalin bad" but Stalin only killed about 40,000/week for 30 years. You're talking of personally paying to support the deaths of everyone at the current world-wide all-cause death rate of 1,000,000/week, forever. Surely in some way that makes your plans infinitely worse than Stalin's? Imagine all the wailing and gnashing of teeth, all the veil of mourning and tears, the darkness your plans will cloud the surface of the Earth with. All the sobbing parents, grieving siblings, depressed grandparents and grandchildren. All because you don't want to bother inventing an orbital ring or an arcology tower or society where suicide by choice is the accepted way out. > "removes most horrible tyrants like Stalin" "we" could still kill him; immortal or ageless doesn't necessarily mean invincible.

m4rtink 4y ago
Exactly - this obsession with planets it toxic, you see it all the time. People just consider Earth as the only available finite resource and thus take some problems as unsolvable and a lot of suffering as normal and unavoidable. All the while the are almost endless resources and options how to solve these issues waiting in the solar system! Its like hauling old people to the mountains to die because your village can't support them. We got over that & we should should get over our current terrestrial problems as well by moving on and expanding out of our cradle.
- mmustapic 4y ago
  The energy needed to move millions to a different planet is enormous with current physics. So, until you solve that, the obsession with Earth is not toxic, it's realistic.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    It's not enormous, it's just significant compared to our current production/use, but here's the good news: there's more than enough energy for that available off planet. There's absurd amounts of energy available everywhere around us. Consider: it seems that we should be able to support a technological civilization of billions of people on renewable energy alone. That means literally on a fraction of the sunlight that Earth captures. Now, Sun isn't focusing on Earth, it's an omnidirectional emitter. Which means there's some 74 000 times more energy than Earth is receiving from the Sun available just in Earth's orbital band alone. Fortunately, space-related energy problems seem like they'll be solving themselves, in lock step with increased space capabilities.
  - jodrellblank 4y ago
    The Sun radiates about 400 trillion trillion Watts in all directions, and only a couple of billionths of it crosses Earth. There's a lot more radiant energy spreading out into the void waiting to be Dyson Swarmed. There's no way we're going to rocket launch billions to Mars, and there isn't another planet worth living on without unreasonable amounts of energy for Terraforming. But we are capable of rebuilding the atoms of Earth into much larger living environments - there are so many atoms it wouldn't mean destroying the Earth to do it. A Space Elevator doesn't need diamond nanowire, it could be built with enough steel chain. An orbital ring around the Equator would be enormous and would take approximately nothing of the Earth's matter to construct. Isaac Arthur's YouTube channel is full of speculation and plans for all kinds of possible or nearly-possible futures, as well as more distant dreams. e.g. the playlists: - "The future of Energy, Industry and Agriculture" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChTJHEdf6yM&list=PLIIOUpOge0LuntVwrflGX6q94zC3s5TXj https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChTJHEdf6yM&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Earth v2.0" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mRjsxQQJE&list=PLIIOUpOge0Lv9Y_4Vmcgaxue0jyZG3_4K https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6mRjsxQQJE&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Outward Bound" - near-Earth space exploration and living - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFOBoy2MZ8&list=PLIIOUpOge0LsIzYlIAIRdAGJTqAW6FmCE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmFOBoy2MZ8&list=PLIIOUpOge0... - "Visions of Earth" - arcologies, megacities, ecumenopolises, geoengineering, weather control - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54&list=PLIIOUpOge0Ls94qU9ZgTy3A-PbmRKKbV4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqKQ94DtS54&list=PLIIOUpOge0... And somewhere in there, megastructures such as Dyson Spheres, ringworlds, etc.

amelius 4y ago

You should check out Hans Rosling's talk on overpopulation.

endtime 4y ago

This is what being a supervillain feels like from the inside.