5 ms·

It sure looks like an attempt to create one platform to rule them all: The long-term goal seems to be to enable different factions to run the operating system

by cs702 4y ago

It sure looks like an attempt to create one platform to rule them all: The long-term goal seems to be to enable different factions to run the operating system of their choice... as a subsystem of Windows.

askvictor 4y ago
Are you envisaging Windows Subsystem for iOS and Windows subsystem for OSX?
nonethewiser 4y ago
That sounds great
exq 4y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  This old chestbut is long past its expiration date
  - croes 4y ago
    See VS Code vs Atom
    - zamalek 4y ago
      Although I agree with the idea that VSCode is a Trojan horse, Atom had some severe fundamental issues (running everything in the UI thread) and would have come to an end no matter what.
      - croes 4y ago
        After MS bought GitHub for sure.
    - shepherdjerred 4y ago
      How dare Microsoft make a superior product that aligns with their business
      - croes 4y ago
        How dare MS to block VS Codium from the extension marketplace.
        Scharkenberg 4y ago
        Is there anything stopping anyone from offering and maintaining an open-source store with open-source extensions for VS Codium?
        croes 4y ago
        The same that stops anyone building an alternative to the npm registry plus the extensions made by MS which won't be in that marketplace. Like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684
        Scharkenberg 4y ago
        Either you did not answer my specific question, or I don't get your point.
  - endperform 4y ago
    Agreed. I laugh every time someone posts it. If MS wanted to kill off Linux, Linux would be long dead by now.
    - servilio 4y ago
      > If MS wanted to kill off Linux, Linux would be long dead by now. How do you envision they could do it? Doesn't seem plausible to me, given the distributed nature of the development of Linux. BTW, they actually tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents Just totally failed.
      - prirun 4y ago
        Buy Canonical. I don't think MS actually cares if Linux exists, if most people pay a Windows license fee to run it.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zamadatix 4y ago
It really all started with the initial design of NT and then there was just a lull in the 2000s. Early NT had a Win32 subsystem, an OS/2 subsystem, and a POSIX subsystem (well and a security subsystem but that's there for different reasons). When they started WSL (now WSL 1) it used this original subsystem architecture from the 90s just now targeting modern Linux. Then they found it didn't work as well as people wanted in terms of filesystem performance, low level networking, and PCIe device access so they switched to the more modern integrated hardware virtual machine model which is what WSL2 and WSA use. Originally Microsoft wanted WSA like functionality (then called Astoria) for Windows 10 mobile but then they found the bridge toolkits to be the easier/better approach and cancelled it until bringing it back for desktop all these years later.
lmm 4y ago
Bear in mind that that strategy backfired horribly for OS/2 - it was "a better windows than windows", but the result was that no-one bothered writing native apps for OS/2 when they could use the Windows API and get an app that ran on both.
- Epa095 4y ago
  If Microsoft keeps this in mind they will make sure to never make it too easy to install and run a Linux program, but still easy enough so that developers choose Windows for their own development machine.
NationOfJoe 4y ago
it seems like this might be a goal, but i have been using WSL for ages for development and i can't imagine anyone would target user applications at WSL. with my sample size of 1, if they added any extended functionality to WSL or WSA i wouldn't use it, i use that environment because it mimics the production environment I target, We wont be using WSL in production that would be Linux. I don't see the use case for running Android on windows except for development and maybe a limited selection of apps. You wouldn't run WSA as a way to get the "locked down" benefits of Andoird on a desktop. Desktops also generally have far more limited sensors and other hardware features. I get Android on a phone because of the form factor, access to NFC, a flashlight, accelerometer sensors and so on Desktop can't have these. Windows gets by business because of WSL, otherwise i would run Ubuntu or something, but windows is just less hassle for everything that isn't in the CLI (YRMV)
naikrovek 4y ago
don't be stupid. holy cow. compatibility is not an EEE tactic. embracing alone is not anything other than embracing. where is the extending and extinguishing of Linux? name ONE thing that is possible in WSL that is not possible without it. just one. where is the extending and extinguishing of .net? of Yammer? of Teams? where are these extensions to Linux or Android? what's been extinguished? You people really drank the kool-aid didn't you? Think for yourselves for once. if you answer, I don't want rumors, I want facts. bring me pictures of spiderman or get the hell out of my office.
- servilio 4y ago
  > don't be stupid. holy cow. No personal attacks, please. Personally, I wouldn't put it in certain terms like the GP has, but it is not out of the question for me. > compatibility is not an EEE tactic. embracing alone is not anything other than embracing. > where is the extending and extinguishing of Linux? name ONE thing that is possible in WSL that is not possible without it. just one. > where is the extending and extinguishing of .net? of Yammer? of Teams? where are these extensions to Linux or Android? what's been extinguished? You are aware that EEE is in /phases/, right? Embracing is just the first one. > You people really drank the kool-aid didn't you? Think for yourselves for once. Or maybe we just haven't forgotten history? In case you want to learn or refresh the memory: - http://birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ http://birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... - https://www.justice.gov/atr/case/us-v-microsoft-corporation-browser-and-middleware https://www.justice.gov/atr/case/us-v-microsoft-corporation-... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT (the patent wasn't released to the OIN until 2019)
  - naikrovek 4y ago
    history is present, certainly, but that's all I see. History. got anything recent? no one ever cites anything recent. meanwhile, Google and Meta are doing nefarious stuff today and no one cares... behavior only mattered in the 1990s, I guess? one might say that the logic here is twisty turny, but in truth people just don't like Microsoft, and they won't admit that they have a very strong bias against Microsoft. I would not even comment on this of people just admitted their bias. but all I see are references to things which are approaching 30 years old. it's apparently supremely bad when MS does something in the 1990s but things that go on today are fine. Unless it's Microsoft... Everyone has their eyes focused on Microsoft waiting for something that may never come, but absolutely sure it will come, while they are ignoring everything around them. > No personal attacks, please. wasn't a personal attack. people aren't stupid, to me, actions are stupid, and things people say are stupid. I was attacking the opinion as stated, not the person. "stupid is as stupid does."

by cs702 4y ago

askvictor 4y ago

Are you envisaging Windows Subsystem for iOS and Windows subsystem for OSX?

nonethewiser 4y ago

That sounds great

exq 4y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
This old chestbut is long past its expiration date
- croes 4y ago
  See VS Code vs Atom
  - zamalek 4y ago
    Although I agree with the idea that VSCode is a Trojan horse, Atom had some severe fundamental issues (running everything in the UI thread) and would have come to an end no matter what.
    - croes 4y ago
      After MS bought GitHub for sure.
  - shepherdjerred 4y ago
    How dare Microsoft make a superior product that aligns with their business
    - croes 4y ago
      How dare MS to block VS Codium from the extension marketplace.
      - Scharkenberg 4y ago
        Is there anything stopping anyone from offering and maintaining an open-source store with open-source extensions for VS Codium?
        croes 4y ago
        The same that stops anyone building an alternative to the npm registry plus the extensions made by MS which won't be in that marketplace. Like this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31760684
        Scharkenberg 4y ago
        Either you did not answer my specific question, or I don't get your point.
- endperform 4y ago
  Agreed. I laugh every time someone posts it. If MS wanted to kill off Linux, Linux would be long dead by now.
  - servilio 4y ago
    > If MS wanted to kill off Linux, Linux would be long dead by now. How do you envision they could do it? Doesn't seem plausible to me, given the distributed nature of the development of Linux. BTW, they actually tried: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents Just totally failed.
    - prirun 4y ago
      Buy Canonical. I don't think MS actually cares if Linux exists, if most people pay a Windows license fee to run it.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

zamadatix 4y ago

It really all started with the initial design of NT and then there was just a lull in the 2000s. Early NT had a Win32 subsystem, an OS/2 subsystem, and a POSIX subsystem (well and a security subsystem but that's there for different reasons). When they started WSL (now WSL 1) it used this original subsystem architecture from the 90s just now targeting modern Linux. Then they found it didn't work as well as people wanted in terms of filesystem performance, low level networking, and PCIe device access so they switched to the more modern integrated hardware virtual machine model which is what WSL2 and WSA use. Originally Microsoft wanted WSA like functionality (then called Astoria) for Windows 10 mobile but then they found the bridge toolkits to be the easier/better approach and cancelled it until bringing it back for desktop all these years later.

lmm 4y ago

Bear in mind that that strategy backfired horribly for OS/2 - it was "a better windows than windows", but the result was that no-one bothered writing native apps for OS/2 when they could use the Windows API and get an app that ran on both.

Epa095 4y ago
If Microsoft keeps this in mind they will make sure to never make it too easy to install and run a Linux program, but still easy enough so that developers choose Windows for their own development machine.

NationOfJoe 4y ago

it seems like this might be a goal, but i have been using WSL for ages for development and i can't imagine anyone would target user applications at WSL. with my sample size of 1, if they added any extended functionality to WSL or WSA i wouldn't use it, i use that environment because it mimics the production environment I target, We wont be using WSL in production that would be Linux. I don't see the use case for running Android on windows except for development and maybe a limited selection of apps. You wouldn't run WSA as a way to get the "locked down" benefits of Andoird on a desktop. Desktops also generally have far more limited sensors and other hardware features. I get Android on a phone because of the form factor, access to NFC, a flashlight, accelerometer sensors and so on Desktop can't have these. Windows gets by business because of WSL, otherwise i would run Ubuntu or something, but windows is just less hassle for everything that isn't in the CLI (YRMV)

naikrovek 4y ago

don't be stupid. holy cow. compatibility is not an EEE tactic. embracing alone is not anything other than embracing. where is the extending and extinguishing of Linux? name ONE thing that is possible in WSL that is not possible without it. just one. where is the extending and extinguishing of .net? of Yammer? of Teams? where are these extensions to Linux or Android? what's been extinguished? You people really drank the kool-aid didn't you? Think for yourselves for once. if you answer, I don't want rumors, I want facts. bring me pictures of spiderman or get the hell out of my office.

servilio 4y ago
> don't be stupid. holy cow. No personal attacks, please. Personally, I wouldn't put it in certain terms like the GP has, but it is not out of the question for me. > compatibility is not an EEE tactic. embracing alone is not anything other than embracing. > where is the extending and extinguishing of Linux? name ONE thing that is possible in WSL that is not possible without it. just one. > where is the extending and extinguishing of .net? of Yammer? of Teams? where are these extensions to Linux or Android? what's been extinguished? You are aware that EEE is in /phases/, right? Embracing is just the first one. > You people really drank the kool-aid didn't you? Think for yourselves for once. Or maybe we just haven't forgotten history? In case you want to learn or refresh the memory: - http://birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ http://birdhouse.org/beos/byte/30-bootloader/ - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... - https://www.justice.gov/atr/case/us-v-microsoft-corporation-browser-and-middleware https://www.justice.gov/atr/case/us-v-microsoft-corporation-... - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExFAT (the patent wasn't released to the OIN until 2019)
- naikrovek 4y ago
  history is present, certainly, but that's all I see. History. got anything recent? no one ever cites anything recent. meanwhile, Google and Meta are doing nefarious stuff today and no one cares... behavior only mattered in the 1990s, I guess? one might say that the logic here is twisty turny, but in truth people just don't like Microsoft, and they won't admit that they have a very strong bias against Microsoft. I would not even comment on this of people just admitted their bias. but all I see are references to things which are approaching 30 years old. it's apparently supremely bad when MS does something in the 1990s but things that go on today are fine. Unless it's Microsoft... Everyone has their eyes focused on Microsoft waiting for something that may never come, but absolutely sure it will come, while they are ignoring everything around them. > No personal attacks, please. wasn't a personal attack. people aren't stupid, to me, actions are stupid, and things people say are stupid. I was attacking the opinion as stated, not the person. "stupid is as stupid does."