3 ms·

How do you calculate the "full cost" of having staff on call 24/7, well maintained equipment that's regularly inspected, building inspectors to verify that fire

How do you calculate the "full cost" of having staff on call 24/7, well maintained equipment that's regularly inspected, building inspectors to verify that fire code is being met to keep usage down to sustainable levels, and so on? The full cost isn't $10k in salary and gasoline and foam, it's millions.

aaronax 4y ago
Total cost of running the department for a year, divided by the number of callouts. Possibly weight the callout types depending on approximate resources consumed. Though I am fully in support of just letting the house burn.
- mook 4y ago
  These costs still exist in a hypothetical year with zero fires, though. Additionally, people whose house were just on fire with zero insurance are probably not in a good financial position (anymore), and they are unlikely to be able to pay…
  - dantheman 4y ago
    If you don't have the money, then a lien is placed on the property and it will be sold to pay the debt. Or you can take out a mortgage to buy it. In any case you'll be richer than if the house is burned down.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      Ability to pay still not guaranteed, depending on the financial situation. Family can easily have more that's than assets to their name, preventing collection.
      - Dylan16807 4y ago
        You can prioritize firefighter debt over other liens. And it doesn't have to be guaranteed if it works 90% of the time.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Your first problem is trivial cuz you can look at a multi-year average. The second part is more significant in people simply don't have the money to pay.
chordalkeyboard 4y ago
amortize that cost over the population that is covered; perhaps discount the services utilized by residents who pre-pay and charge a premium for those who pay on the spot.
jefftk 4y ago
My city spends ~$20M/y on the fire department [1] and has ~300 structure fires and ~14k callouts annually [2]. The cost for a marginal fire is definitely not millions; even if you only divide $20M by 300 you get $70k and that ignores the tens of thousands of other calls they take. [1] https://stories.opengov.com/somervillema/published/BhSqQ0eG2 https://stories.opengov.com/somervillema/published/BhSqQ0eG2 [2] https://www.mass.gov/doc/2020-county-profiles/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/2020-county-profiles/download

aaronax 4y ago

Total cost of running the department for a year, divided by the number of callouts. Possibly weight the callout types depending on approximate resources consumed. Though I am fully in support of just letting the house burn.

mook 4y ago
These costs still exist in a hypothetical year with zero fires, though. Additionally, people whose house were just on fire with zero insurance are probably not in a good financial position (anymore), and they are unlikely to be able to pay…
- dantheman 4y ago
  If you don't have the money, then a lien is placed on the property and it will be sold to pay the debt. Or you can take out a mortgage to buy it. In any case you'll be richer than if the house is burned down.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Ability to pay still not guaranteed, depending on the financial situation. Family can easily have more that's than assets to their name, preventing collection.
    - Dylan16807 4y ago
      You can prioritize firefighter debt over other liens. And it doesn't have to be guaranteed if it works 90% of the time.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Your first problem is trivial cuz you can look at a multi-year average. The second part is more significant in people simply don't have the money to pay.

chordalkeyboard 4y ago

amortize that cost over the population that is covered; perhaps discount the services utilized by residents who pre-pay and charge a premium for those who pay on the spot.

jefftk 4y ago

My city spends ~$20M/y on the fire department [1] and has ~300 structure fires and ~14k callouts annually [2]. The cost for a marginal fire is definitely not millions; even if you only divide $20M by 300 you get $70k and that ignores the tens of thousands of other calls they take. [1] https://stories.opengov.com/somervillema/published/BhSqQ0eG2 https://stories.opengov.com/somervillema/published/BhSqQ0eG2 [2] https://www.mass.gov/doc/2020-county-profiles/download https://www.mass.gov/doc/2020-county-profiles/download