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It seems a lot of boxers and MMA fighters use ice. My wife was doing boxing and such for exercise at a gym run by an ex MMA fighter in Singapore. She hurt her w

It seems a lot of boxers and MMA fighters use ice. My wife was doing boxing and such for exercise at a gym run by an ex MMA fighter in Singapore. She hurt her wrist and it hurt alot and the gym told her to put ice and water in a jar, and hold her hand in it for 15 minutes. The pain subsided and swelling went down and a day later she had normal movement in her wrist again. I have no idea of it’s effective but it seems to have helped her.

fsh 4y ago
You don't know what would have happened without the ice. Believing in anecdotes instead of studies leads to bloodletting and homeopathy.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  This is true. And I hope my story didn’t come across as me trying to claim it as anything more than a story. I’m always skeptical about these sorry of things. But having had similar injuries before and having not used ice I was surprised that she could move her wrist without pain while for me it takes like a week.
gwd 4y ago
It will certainly reduce swelling and pain; the question is whether her wrist would have been back up to 100% more quickly without the ice. The claim in the infographic was that the ice probably slowed down healing. I haven't looked at the evidence (presumably) presented in the paper itself to justify this conclusion.
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  So having had similar injuries before myself it’s taken me longer to heal and movement was painful. In my wife’s case she has full movement and no pain. But she didn’t go back for class for 2 weeks. Make sure it had healed. Just was surprising to me that she curls move her wrist without pain.
- mhb 4y ago
  I haven't looked at the evidence (presumably) presented in the paper Surprisingly, the blog has more references than the paper (and the paper mentions that).
kristiandupont 4y ago
That ice would reduce swelling feels intuitive to me. What is less intuitive is whether or not reducing swelling is in fact a good thing. The way I see it, swelling could be one of two things: 1) a mechanism that the body engages in order to heal or alleviate healing, similar to fevers, or 2) a negative side-effect caused by, say, inflammation or something. There are probably studies that indicate which of the two it is, I don't know. But if it is #1, then reducing it is just a way to actively work against the body.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Acute inflammation is there for a reason; it helps repair tissue damage. At the cost of function in the short-term. My bet is that icing means you can use your wrist again sooner, but with prolonged or incomplete recovery.
  - naasking 4y ago
    > Acute inflammation is there for a reason; it helps repair tissue damage. Inflammation is primarily to address severe trauma, like having a limb severed or torn apart. That doesn't necessarily mean it's good for all tissue damage, but evolution often can't make such fine distinctions, so our body triggers inflammatory responses even when it's counterproductive. The inconvenience a counterproductive response is much better than the death that follows from not having any response. A lot of medicine is about controlling the body's inappropriate inflammatory responses. We don't always have a good handle yet on when the body's inflammatory response is good vs. bad in all cases, which is why the debate over icing is ongoing, but it is clear that it often isn't beneficial. I think it's also clear that icing and NSAIDS for chronic inflammation are not good ideas.
    - abfan1127 4y ago
      source?
    - iamthirsty 4y ago
      > but evolution often can't make such fine distinctions, so our body triggers inflammatory responses even when it's counterproductive This is just not accurate, and I'd love to see your source on even the first clause here. because evolution does, in fact, make fine distinctions all over the tree of life.
jackmott42 4y ago
Yes, athletes have been both icing and heating injuries for centuries, and doing many other things that make no sense. However, it could be the case that icing injuries is a good idea if you need to perform the next day (or otherwise soon) but a bad idea if you want to heal the best/soonest that you can. Or it could all just be nonsense, no shortage of that, no matter how popular.
neuralRiot 4y ago
Let’s throw anecdotal data since we are at it, for me in my over 20 years of bodybuilding experience with plenty of “soft tissue” injuries what works best is cold-warm theraphy.

fsh 4y ago

You don't know what would have happened without the ice. Believing in anecdotes instead of studies leads to bloodletting and homeopathy.

philliphaydon 4y ago
This is true. And I hope my story didn’t come across as me trying to claim it as anything more than a story. I’m always skeptical about these sorry of things. But having had similar injuries before and having not used ice I was surprised that she could move her wrist without pain while for me it takes like a week.

gwd 4y ago

It will certainly reduce swelling and pain; the question is whether her wrist would have been back up to 100% more quickly without the ice. The claim in the infographic was that the ice probably slowed down healing. I haven't looked at the evidence (presumably) presented in the paper itself to justify this conclusion.

philliphaydon 4y ago
So having had similar injuries before myself it’s taken me longer to heal and movement was painful. In my wife’s case she has full movement and no pain. But she didn’t go back for class for 2 weeks. Make sure it had healed. Just was surprising to me that she curls move her wrist without pain.
mhb 4y ago
I haven't looked at the evidence (presumably) presented in the paper Surprisingly, the blog has more references than the paper (and the paper mentions that).

kristiandupont 4y ago

That ice would reduce swelling feels intuitive to me. What is less intuitive is whether or not reducing swelling is in fact a good thing. The way I see it, swelling could be one of two things: 1) a mechanism that the body engages in order to heal or alleviate healing, similar to fevers, or 2) a negative side-effect caused by, say, inflammation or something. There are probably studies that indicate which of the two it is, I don't know. But if it is #1, then reducing it is just a way to actively work against the body.

jonnycomputer 4y ago
Acute inflammation is there for a reason; it helps repair tissue damage. At the cost of function in the short-term. My bet is that icing means you can use your wrist again sooner, but with prolonged or incomplete recovery.
- naasking 4y ago
  > Acute inflammation is there for a reason; it helps repair tissue damage. Inflammation is primarily to address severe trauma, like having a limb severed or torn apart. That doesn't necessarily mean it's good for all tissue damage, but evolution often can't make such fine distinctions, so our body triggers inflammatory responses even when it's counterproductive. The inconvenience a counterproductive response is much better than the death that follows from not having any response. A lot of medicine is about controlling the body's inappropriate inflammatory responses. We don't always have a good handle yet on when the body's inflammatory response is good vs. bad in all cases, which is why the debate over icing is ongoing, but it is clear that it often isn't beneficial. I think it's also clear that icing and NSAIDS for chronic inflammation are not good ideas.
  - abfan1127 4y ago
    source?
  - iamthirsty 4y ago
    > but evolution often can't make such fine distinctions, so our body triggers inflammatory responses even when it's counterproductive This is just not accurate, and I'd love to see your source on even the first clause here. because evolution does, in fact, make fine distinctions all over the tree of life.

jackmott42 4y ago

Yes, athletes have been both icing and heating injuries for centuries, and doing many other things that make no sense. However, it could be the case that icing injuries is a good idea if you need to perform the next day (or otherwise soon) but a bad idea if you want to heal the best/soonest that you can. Or it could all just be nonsense, no shortage of that, no matter how popular.

neuralRiot 4y ago

Let’s throw anecdotal data since we are at it, for me in my over 20 years of bodybuilding experience with plenty of “soft tissue” injuries what works best is cold-warm theraphy.