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That's quite the contrast between the Japanese being known as feverish world travelers, and also borderline germaphobes. Who can blame them. Airports seem like

That's quite the contrast between the Japanese being known as feverish world travelers, and also borderline germaphobes. Who can blame them. Airports seem like ground zero for covid transmission, and who wants to be sick and quarantined in a foreign country during their whole vacation? No to mention potentially missing work?

znkynz 4y ago
Wait- if you are sick on your annual leave, is that not treated as sick leave in your country?
- killingtime74 4y ago
  Not in Australia. My colleague is actually in Japan right now on annual leave sick with Covid.
  - mrlagmer 4y ago
    Yes in Australia. Look up the labor laws they are required to change it to sick leave. I did it last year when I got Covid over Christmas.
    - killingtime74 4y ago
      Wow this is news to me thanks
  - pgreenwood 4y ago
    Apparently you can, not that I ever have: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600459_Sick-leave-during-annual-leave https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- dspillett 4y ago
  Not that I know of (UK here). I've never expected time back when I'll on paid leave anymore than is expect an employer to give me extra leave for being ill at the weekend. Maybe I've been missing out…
  - znkynz 4y ago
    https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
- phantomathkg 4y ago
  Nope in many companies.
- netsharc 4y ago
  Are you German? I know in Germany it's treated that way - sick during vacation days? Then you're on sick leave, not vacation...
- hobbitstan 4y ago
  I’m in the US and have never heard of such a thing. If you’re sick on vacation then that’s not eligible for sick leave.
  - c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
    At my employer in the US, sick leave was drawn from your vacation days... hence very sick people always coming into the office to work.
    - hobbitstan 4y ago
      That’s common. School teachers face the same problem. They don’t quality for sick leave until they’ve used up all their PTO first.
      - ultrarunner 4y ago
        My father, a high school teacher, has some absurd >1000 day sick day balance right now. He keeps putting off retirement for some unknown reason despite complaining about how terrible the system is, and a common response from my siblings is "maybe you should just be sick for three years…" I suspect this varies by state, but the idea that sick leave for teachers is lacking has never been a common theme for any of the teachers in my family.
        ghaff 4y ago
        There's been a general shift in the US from a system where large organizations had separate pools for sick time and vacation to a common PTO pool. But you still see organizations, either because of inertia or union contracts, still have the prior system in place. And, yeah, the traditional system tended to have more sick days than anyone would use outside of serious illness or injury although, as I recall, there usually wasn't carry-over.
  - jonp888 4y ago
    The US is an exception though, since having any kind of leave at all is a gift of of the employer and not defined in law. For the rest of the world, the idea that an employer can arbitrarily decide it is not possible for someone to be ill more than a certain number of days per year is bonkers.
- ghaff 4y ago
  In the US these days, Paid Time Off is often a single pooled block for vacation/personal time/sick leave. (Although short term disability and long term disability are separate things if they exist.) But even if sick time were separate I wouldn't expect to be able to use it instead of vacation time if I got sick on vacation.
xdfgh1112 4y ago
They aren't really world travellers though. Only 23% hold a passport. Then there is the language barrier (low English skill), weak yen, perception of foreign countries as dangerous, and the inability to take a week or more of vacation time.
- mbg721 4y ago
  What percentage of Americans hold a passport? I'd guess it's similar.
  - kolanos 4y ago
    37% of American adults have passports. [0] [0]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021/04/21/only-one-third-americans-have-valid-us-passport https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021...
    - ddulaney 4y ago
      Interesting that polling data is different from State Department issuance data. I wonder what the difference is? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-and-statistics.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        It's legal to have two US passports. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-passport/second-passport-book.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-pa...
        ghaff 4y ago
        I have to believe that's in the noise. It's for some very specific purposes and, as I recall, when I looked it up at one point for no particular reason, it was fairly burdensome to do.
netsharc 4y ago
I think the idea of Japanese being avid travellers was something from the 80's when their economy was booming (article also mentions 70's). Recently/until Covid hit, if you saw a large group of East Asian tourists, they'd most likely be Chinese.
- ggm 4y ago
  This. A large number of businesses which built out around "Japanese spoken here" swung to Manderin in the last 4-8 year window and a lot of that isn't coming back because of both Covid, and AU-CN trade/politics concerns. That said, there is a huge chinese mainland diaspora based in Australia this last decade, so I suspect family reunion will encourage more of this tourism/travel back, given time. (Australia is 40% direct migrant, or children of migrants. There is often a lot of tension over which non-anglo community now has financial muscle, buys homes, sets cultural trends. It's been about Italy, The Balts, Greeks, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese. The New Zealanders mostly sailed under the radar until a recent government started cancelling residency visa left right and centre for crimes of one kind or another and ANZUS as a political belief in unity across the tasman sea died a bit.)
- wrp 4y ago
  Yes, the throngs of Japanese tourists around the world ended in the 1990s with the downturn of their economy. It had nothing to do with health concerns. Strange that it is being talked about as a recent thing. The last decade or so has seen throngs of PRC tourists, seemingly less concerned with photo-documenting the world than with seeking out brand name merchandise. I don't think germophobia is an adequate explanation for increased reluctance to travel, at least for the Japanese. For one thing, they tend to be more influenced by the risk of enduring any kind of hassles in travel, which have increased dramatically since 9/11. For another thing, the shine of popular destinations has worn off somewhat in the last few years. I've heard from talking to/about university students in South Korea that the heavily negative social news about the USA has caused travel there to lose much of its appeal.
nitwit005 4y ago
A number of countries have a sub-group that travel a huge amount, and a majority that rarely does. Which is partly just wealth, but also just variation in how aware people are of the outside world. Few people are going to visit a country they have no interest in, and can't locate on a map.
mdorazio 4y ago
I think this is a misperception that doesn't really reflect the reality. One of my long-term clients is a large Japanese company and I work with a lot of Japanese people regularly + have been to Japan several times. In my experience there's a small percentage of Japanese people who really like to travel and these are the ones you see, so it seems like there's a more general trend than there is. The majority of Japanese people don't really seem to care all that much about international travel.
- ehnto 4y ago
  That matches my experience too, and Japan has a pretty big population too so that small percentage who love to travel will still be a lot of people.
- danielscrubs 4y ago
  Selection bias. Those that work internationally and learnt English properly have a different attitude than those that stay, they usually spend enormous amount of effort learning the language because they don’t fit in or don’t want to. I’ve traveled around with Japanese and they definitely appreciate cleanliness and politeness more than any others. I’ve had multiple Japanese people cry saying how lucky they are to have been born in Japan when they have a short stay in pretty well off countries. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be dirty, I’ve seen bones for ramen cracked on the streets here. Just that they appreciate cleanliness a lot. I think red mold popping up everywhere all the time makes you more careful, at least I became more aware after moving here.
el-salvador 4y ago
> who wants to be sick and quarantined in a foreign country There's also the higher than normal risk of needing medical treatment in a country with either higher medical costs or lower healthcare quality. In my country of birth, covid treatment is free* in state owned hospitals for citizens and non citizens. But it's not the case in other countries. *Taxpayer funded

znkynz 4y ago

Wait- if you are sick on your annual leave, is that not treated as sick leave in your country?

killingtime74 4y ago
Not in Australia. My colleague is actually in Japan right now on annual leave sick with Covid.
- mrlagmer 4y ago
  Yes in Australia. Look up the labor laws they are required to change it to sick leave. I did it last year when I got Covid over Christmas.
  - killingtime74 4y ago
    Wow this is news to me thanks
- pgreenwood 4y ago
  Apparently you can, not that I ever have: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600459_Sick-leave-during-annual-leave https://www.fairwork.gov.au/tools-and-resources/library/K600...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dspillett 4y ago
Not that I know of (UK here). I've never expected time back when I'll on paid leave anymore than is expect an employer to give me extra leave for being ill at the weekend. Maybe I've been missing out…
- znkynz 4y ago
  https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
phantomathkg 4y ago
Nope in many companies.
netsharc 4y ago
Are you German? I know in Germany it's treated that way - sick during vacation days? Then you're on sick leave, not vacation...
hobbitstan 4y ago
I’m in the US and have never heard of such a thing. If you’re sick on vacation then that’s not eligible for sick leave.
- c_o_n_v_e_x 4y ago
  At my employer in the US, sick leave was drawn from your vacation days... hence very sick people always coming into the office to work.
  - hobbitstan 4y ago
    That’s common. School teachers face the same problem. They don’t quality for sick leave until they’ve used up all their PTO first.
    - ultrarunner 4y ago
      My father, a high school teacher, has some absurd >1000 day sick day balance right now. He keeps putting off retirement for some unknown reason despite complaining about how terrible the system is, and a common response from my siblings is "maybe you should just be sick for three years…" I suspect this varies by state, but the idea that sick leave for teachers is lacking has never been a common theme for any of the teachers in my family.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        There's been a general shift in the US from a system where large organizations had separate pools for sick time and vacation to a common PTO pool. But you still see organizations, either because of inertia or union contracts, still have the prior system in place. And, yeah, the traditional system tended to have more sick days than anyone would use outside of serious illness or injury although, as I recall, there usually wasn't carry-over.
- jonp888 4y ago
  The US is an exception though, since having any kind of leave at all is a gift of of the employer and not defined in law. For the rest of the world, the idea that an employer can arbitrarily decide it is not possible for someone to be ill more than a certain number of days per year is bonkers.
ghaff 4y ago
In the US these days, Paid Time Off is often a single pooled block for vacation/personal time/sick leave. (Although short term disability and long term disability are separate things if they exist.) But even if sick time were separate I wouldn't expect to be able to use it instead of vacation time if I got sick on vacation.

xdfgh1112 4y ago

They aren't really world travellers though. Only 23% hold a passport. Then there is the language barrier (low English skill), weak yen, perception of foreign countries as dangerous, and the inability to take a week or more of vacation time.

mbg721 4y ago
What percentage of Americans hold a passport? I'd guess it's similar.
- kolanos 4y ago
  37% of American adults have passports. [0] [0]: https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021/04/21/only-one-third-americans-have-valid-us-passport https://today.yougov.com/topics/travel/articles-reports/2021...
  - ddulaney 4y ago
    Interesting that polling data is different from State Department issuance data. I wonder what the difference is? https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-and-statistics.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/about-us/reports-...
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      It's legal to have two US passports. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-passport/second-passport-book.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/have-pa...
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I have to believe that's in the noise. It's for some very specific purposes and, as I recall, when I looked it up at one point for no particular reason, it was fairly burdensome to do.

netsharc 4y ago

I think the idea of Japanese being avid travellers was something from the 80's when their economy was booming (article also mentions 70's). Recently/until Covid hit, if you saw a large group of East Asian tourists, they'd most likely be Chinese.

ggm 4y ago
This. A large number of businesses which built out around "Japanese spoken here" swung to Manderin in the last 4-8 year window and a lot of that isn't coming back because of both Covid, and AU-CN trade/politics concerns. That said, there is a huge chinese mainland diaspora based in Australia this last decade, so I suspect family reunion will encourage more of this tourism/travel back, given time. (Australia is 40% direct migrant, or children of migrants. There is often a lot of tension over which non-anglo community now has financial muscle, buys homes, sets cultural trends. It's been about Italy, The Balts, Greeks, Lebanese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Chinese. The New Zealanders mostly sailed under the radar until a recent government started cancelling residency visa left right and centre for crimes of one kind or another and ANZUS as a political belief in unity across the tasman sea died a bit.)
wrp 4y ago
Yes, the throngs of Japanese tourists around the world ended in the 1990s with the downturn of their economy. It had nothing to do with health concerns. Strange that it is being talked about as a recent thing. The last decade or so has seen throngs of PRC tourists, seemingly less concerned with photo-documenting the world than with seeking out brand name merchandise. I don't think germophobia is an adequate explanation for increased reluctance to travel, at least for the Japanese. For one thing, they tend to be more influenced by the risk of enduring any kind of hassles in travel, which have increased dramatically since 9/11. For another thing, the shine of popular destinations has worn off somewhat in the last few years. I've heard from talking to/about university students in South Korea that the heavily negative social news about the USA has caused travel there to lose much of its appeal.

nitwit005 4y ago

A number of countries have a sub-group that travel a huge amount, and a majority that rarely does. Which is partly just wealth, but also just variation in how aware people are of the outside world. Few people are going to visit a country they have no interest in, and can't locate on a map.

mdorazio 4y ago

I think this is a misperception that doesn't really reflect the reality. One of my long-term clients is a large Japanese company and I work with a lot of Japanese people regularly + have been to Japan several times. In my experience there's a small percentage of Japanese people who really like to travel and these are the ones you see, so it seems like there's a more general trend than there is. The majority of Japanese people don't really seem to care all that much about international travel.

ehnto 4y ago
That matches my experience too, and Japan has a pretty big population too so that small percentage who love to travel will still be a lot of people.
danielscrubs 4y ago
Selection bias. Those that work internationally and learnt English properly have a different attitude than those that stay, they usually spend enormous amount of effort learning the language because they don’t fit in or don’t want to. I’ve traveled around with Japanese and they definitely appreciate cleanliness and politeness more than any others. I’ve had multiple Japanese people cry saying how lucky they are to have been born in Japan when they have a short stay in pretty well off countries. This doesn’t mean that they can’t be dirty, I’ve seen bones for ramen cracked on the streets here. Just that they appreciate cleanliness a lot. I think red mold popping up everywhere all the time makes you more careful, at least I became more aware after moving here.

el-salvador 4y ago

> who wants to be sick and quarantined in a foreign country There's also the higher than normal risk of needing medical treatment in a country with either higher medical costs or lower healthcare quality. In my country of birth, covid treatment is free* in state owned hospitals for citizens and non citizens. But it's not the case in other countries. *Taxpayer funded