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Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less ra

Plenty of people drive EVs in the arctic far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Of course EVs will have less range in cold conditions, but they also have some advantages in the cold: pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example. They may be more reliable than petrol and diesel vehicles in extreme cold conditions, and no need for engine block heaters, etc.

barbariangrunge 4y ago
I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  An EV battery is entirely different than a lead acid accessory battery in a combustion car. It has a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges. They don't die in cold weather. I've never heard of one doing so. The only issue with cold weather is reduced range. So just make sure you buy one with a battery big enough to handle your commute even with reduced range in cold. Which is pretty much all of them these days, honestly.
  - jeffreyrogers 4y ago
    Phones and laptops get worse battery performance in cold weather and use similar batteries to EVs.
    - hunter2_ 4y ago
      Those don't have "a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges" although now you've got me wondering whether a laptop that expends some energy to keep its battery warm would actually last longer in extreme cold than an otherwise-identical laptop that doesn't... of course one would need to also consider whether the keep-warm energy is drawn while plugged in (which would obviously let it last longer) or not (which I'm not sure about).
- Reason077 4y ago
  Li-ion batteries perform better at low temperatures than Lead-acid. The traction battery is also a lot bigger so it retains heat for much longer. And in some models, the car's battery management software can kick in some heating to prevent it from getting excessively cold if necessary.
- Retric 4y ago
  It depends on how cold you are talking about. Lead acid batteries run into issues, but portable jump starter is a cheap and easy solution for that. However, if your talking -40C both oil and fuel both run into problems with ultra low temperatures so people need to use heating blankets. The nice thing about EV’s is you can have them warmup while plugged in an unheated parking space. The bad thing is cars are poorly insulated so at ultra low temperatures they need to use a lot of energy to keep warm.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    > The nice thing about EV’s is you can have them warmup while plugged in an unheated parking space Just like people have been doing with ICE cars for literally decades? This has been super common since at least the 80s and probably even earlier, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Standheizung-Schweden.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Standhei... It's called a block heater, it's normal for most parking spaces in cold countries to have sockets for these.
    - Retric 4y ago
      That requires extra equipment or aftermarket upgrades. EV’s come out of the factory with everything already setup. It might not seem like much, but not everyone is local.
      - d_runs_far 4y ago
        Or a standard feature if you're living on the Canadian prairies. In the mid 70's my uncle left Edmonton to do his doctorate in the Bay Area, and had his classmates at Berkeley convinced that his big Dodge Charger was electric because of the block heater cord on the front of it :-)
- lazide 4y ago
  EVs are mechanically far simpler. Mechanical parts always have issues dealing with large temp ranges (it becomes a very hard engineering problem), and the simpler the better. It’s not just oil (not needed to the extent it is in ICE cars), but everything. For EV’s, the chemistry will have issues at low temps (fixed with battery warmers), and it has to use propulsion energy to heat the cabin, both of which will cause some loss of range. As long as the battery doesn’t run down too low though, it’s a decent choice if other things are engineered correctly.
zackkitzmiller 4y ago
Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.
- wil421 4y ago
  Lots of people park in garages where it’s not an option.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    My gas powered Mercedes heats up just fine without starting the engine. This has been a common feature for like ... idk, 20 years? I think even the 80s W214 had this option, although that used a separate burner system instead of batteries.
    - rvba 4y ago
      You are getting downvoted, while you write the truth. High end cars had that feature for years. Lower end ones used various block heaters / car heater boxes / webastos.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - thesmok 4y ago
      It still burns fuel and exhausts CO2 doing that.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Replying to the comment below about garages. One can simply open the garage door, also remotely. Step 1, open garage door remotely, step 2, start car remotely.
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  A big difference is that while an EV is sitting plugged in, it can heat itself from wall power, rather than burning gas to do it.
prottog 4y ago
> far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Not even close! The Gulf Stream keeps them nice and toasty. Tromsø or Hammerfest, for example, sees wintertime overnight lows similar to e.g. Worcester, Massachusetts (28 degrees of latitude further south). A far cry from places like North Dakota where the daytime highs in December and January are colder than the overnight lows in Tromsø, let alone places in inland Canada.
- hanche 4y ago
  The interior of Finnmark in northern Norway can get very cold indeed. Temperatures approaching -40 degrees are not unheard of there. The coast is much warmer most of the time as you say.
HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
But those aren't real differentiators. You've been able to remote start ICE cars for years, so it's warm when you get in. With a block heater, even diesels will start well below zero. Even without one, my 20 year-old ICE car starts up in -20F. And if you've got a place to charge your EV, then you've got a place to plug in your block heater.
jcadam 4y ago
> pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example Remote start has been a common feature of many ICE vehicles for a long time.

barbariangrunge 4y ago

I was under the impression that cars died in the cold due to the battery dying. Are evs more reliable because they are likely to be plugged in over night?

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
An EV battery is entirely different than a lead acid accessory battery in a combustion car. It has a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges. They don't die in cold weather. I've never heard of one doing so. The only issue with cold weather is reduced range. So just make sure you buy one with a battery big enough to handle your commute even with reduced range in cold. Which is pretty much all of them these days, honestly.
- jeffreyrogers 4y ago
  Phones and laptops get worse battery performance in cold weather and use similar batteries to EVs.
  - hunter2_ 4y ago
    Those don't have "a whole system dedicated to maintaining its temperature within ideal ranges" although now you've got me wondering whether a laptop that expends some energy to keep its battery warm would actually last longer in extreme cold than an otherwise-identical laptop that doesn't... of course one would need to also consider whether the keep-warm energy is drawn while plugged in (which would obviously let it last longer) or not (which I'm not sure about).
Reason077 4y ago
Li-ion batteries perform better at low temperatures than Lead-acid. The traction battery is also a lot bigger so it retains heat for much longer. And in some models, the car's battery management software can kick in some heating to prevent it from getting excessively cold if necessary.
Retric 4y ago
It depends on how cold you are talking about. Lead acid batteries run into issues, but portable jump starter is a cheap and easy solution for that. However, if your talking -40C both oil and fuel both run into problems with ultra low temperatures so people need to use heating blankets. The nice thing about EV’s is you can have them warmup while plugged in an unheated parking space. The bad thing is cars are poorly insulated so at ultra low temperatures they need to use a lot of energy to keep warm.
- rosnd 4y ago
  > The nice thing about EV’s is you can have them warmup while plugged in an unheated parking space Just like people have been doing with ICE cars for literally decades? This has been super common since at least the 80s and probably even earlier, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Standheizung-Schweden.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/75/Standhei... It's called a block heater, it's normal for most parking spaces in cold countries to have sockets for these.
  - Retric 4y ago
    That requires extra equipment or aftermarket upgrades. EV’s come out of the factory with everything already setup. It might not seem like much, but not everyone is local.
    - d_runs_far 4y ago
      Or a standard feature if you're living on the Canadian prairies. In the mid 70's my uncle left Edmonton to do his doctorate in the Bay Area, and had his classmates at Berkeley convinced that his big Dodge Charger was electric because of the block heater cord on the front of it :-)
lazide 4y ago
EVs are mechanically far simpler. Mechanical parts always have issues dealing with large temp ranges (it becomes a very hard engineering problem), and the simpler the better. It’s not just oil (not needed to the extent it is in ICE cars), but everything. For EV’s, the chemistry will have issues at low temps (fixed with battery warmers), and it has to use propulsion energy to heat the cabin, both of which will cause some loss of range. As long as the battery doesn’t run down too low though, it’s a decent choice if other things are engineered correctly.

zackkitzmiller 4y ago

Nearly every modern gas vehicle has remote start, and has for years. This isn't an EV feature.

wil421 4y ago
Lots of people park in garages where it’s not an option.
- rosnd 4y ago
  My gas powered Mercedes heats up just fine without starting the engine. This has been a common feature for like ... idk, 20 years? I think even the 80s W214 had this option, although that used a separate burner system instead of batteries.
  - rvba 4y ago
    You are getting downvoted, while you write the truth. High end cars had that feature for years. Lower end ones used various block heaters / car heater boxes / webastos.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - thesmok 4y ago
    It still burns fuel and exhausts CO2 doing that.
iancmceachern 4y ago
Replying to the comment below about garages. One can simply open the garage door, also remotely. Step 1, open garage door remotely, step 2, start car remotely.
LeoPanthera 4y ago
A big difference is that while an EV is sitting plugged in, it can heat itself from wall power, rather than burning gas to do it.

prottog 4y ago

> far north of Norway (Troms & Finnmark). Not quite as cold as Canada, maybe, but close. Not even close! The Gulf Stream keeps them nice and toasty. Tromsø or Hammerfest, for example, sees wintertime overnight lows similar to e.g. Worcester, Massachusetts (28 degrees of latitude further south). A far cry from places like North Dakota where the daytime highs in December and January are colder than the overnight lows in Tromsø, let alone places in inland Canada.

hanche 4y ago
The interior of Finnmark in northern Norway can get very cold indeed. Temperatures approaching -40 degrees are not unheard of there. The coast is much warmer most of the time as you say.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago

But those aren't real differentiators. You've been able to remote start ICE cars for years, so it's warm when you get in. With a block heater, even diesels will start well below zero. Even without one, my 20 year-old ICE car starts up in -20F. And if you've got a place to charge your EV, then you've got a place to plug in your block heater.

jcadam 4y ago

> pre-heating from an app so the car is warm when you set out, for example Remote start has been a common feature of many ICE vehicles for a long time.