4 ms·

What about the pivot from "This is a private company. Free speech doesn't apply" to "This is censorship of free speech"?

mcv 4y ago
I don't really see that pivot. Only the opposite in Musk. What people are complaining about is his hypocrisy: he claimed not to ban anyone except when required by law, but instead it looks like he's banning more people, and more arbitrarily, than Twitter ever did before his takeover. Sure he has the right to do so, but it makes him a liar and a hypocrite.
api 4y ago
I have seen a bit of that but most including myself still hold the same opinion. A private silo is not a free speech zone. Twitter wasn’t before Elon and isn’t now and never will be. There’s layers of irony here. All the “libs” who were supposedly pro censorship ran off to the actual free speech zone. The Fediverse is almost uncensorable since you can hop instances or just run your own. There is a difference though. It has no algorithm that boosts “engaging” content like craziness, hate, and trolling. I’ve always thought that what the far right was so mad about was loss of a free propaganda ploy that involved baiting the algorithm. You can always have free speech in a million places but a free promotion machine isn’t easily replaceable. Of course the worst excesses of “cancel culture” were also driven by the algorithm. Moral outrage mobs increase engagement just like racism and wacko conspiracy theories do. I personally hope centralized all encompassing social media burns. It’s driven all the craziest excesses everywhere.
- Pxtl 4y ago
  Individual fediverse nodes can implement whatever moderation policies they like, and are free to defederate from nodes whose policies they disagree with. So it's not really "uncensorable".
  - pkilgore 4y ago
    You're free to leave the node. That's not censorship, it's the node owner's own free speech rights.
    - Pxtl 4y ago
      Right. I like mastodon's approach to moderation and ownership, it makes sense. But it's wrong to think of it as some sort of 8chan anarchy.
      - api 4y ago
        8chan wasn't anarchy. It's a closed fiefdom that had a highly permissive moderation policy. It could have decided to change at any time, and there's evidence that the owners manipulated it as well such as pretending to be "Q" and modifying trip codes for certain people. Whomever admins the system owns the system. True for any Mastodon instance and true for Twitter.
hef19898 4y ago
I fall in the first camp. Elon's claimed stabd on free speech and his actions are just so opposite to each other, that calling out his hypocrasy makes absolute sense.
Pxtl 4y ago
There's a big difference between how conservatives are calling the old order corrupt and criminal and calling for Jack et al to be arrested, vs complaining that Musk is being a clown and a hypocrite.
tremon 4y ago
What about it?
UncleMeat 4y ago
Now we are just having the conversation we wanted the entire time. Rather than having people hide behind "free speech absolutism" we can have a discussion about why some people think that transphobia is more acceptable on a platform than making fun of Elon Musk.

mcv 4y ago

I don't really see that pivot. Only the opposite in Musk. What people are complaining about is his hypocrisy: he claimed not to ban anyone except when required by law, but instead it looks like he's banning more people, and more arbitrarily, than Twitter ever did before his takeover. Sure he has the right to do so, but it makes him a liar and a hypocrite.

api 4y ago

I have seen a bit of that but most including myself still hold the same opinion. A private silo is not a free speech zone. Twitter wasn’t before Elon and isn’t now and never will be. There’s layers of irony here. All the “libs” who were supposedly pro censorship ran off to the actual free speech zone. The Fediverse is almost uncensorable since you can hop instances or just run your own. There is a difference though. It has no algorithm that boosts “engaging” content like craziness, hate, and trolling. I’ve always thought that what the far right was so mad about was loss of a free propaganda ploy that involved baiting the algorithm. You can always have free speech in a million places but a free promotion machine isn’t easily replaceable. Of course the worst excesses of “cancel culture” were also driven by the algorithm. Moral outrage mobs increase engagement just like racism and wacko conspiracy theories do. I personally hope centralized all encompassing social media burns. It’s driven all the craziest excesses everywhere.

Pxtl 4y ago
Individual fediverse nodes can implement whatever moderation policies they like, and are free to defederate from nodes whose policies they disagree with. So it's not really "uncensorable".
- pkilgore 4y ago
  You're free to leave the node. That's not censorship, it's the node owner's own free speech rights.
  - Pxtl 4y ago
    Right. I like mastodon's approach to moderation and ownership, it makes sense. But it's wrong to think of it as some sort of 8chan anarchy.
    - api 4y ago
      8chan wasn't anarchy. It's a closed fiefdom that had a highly permissive moderation policy. It could have decided to change at any time, and there's evidence that the owners manipulated it as well such as pretending to be "Q" and modifying trip codes for certain people. Whomever admins the system owns the system. True for any Mastodon instance and true for Twitter.

hef19898 4y ago

I fall in the first camp. Elon's claimed stabd on free speech and his actions are just so opposite to each other, that calling out his hypocrasy makes absolute sense.

Pxtl 4y ago

There's a big difference between how conservatives are calling the old order corrupt and criminal and calling for Jack et al to be arrested, vs complaining that Musk is being a clown and a hypocrite.

tremon 4y ago

What about it?

UncleMeat 4y ago

Now we are just having the conversation we wanted the entire time. Rather than having people hide behind "free speech absolutism" we can have a discussion about why some people think that transphobia is more acceptable on a platform than making fun of Elon Musk.