5 ms·

>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medica

by goatsi 4y ago

>One of the greatest reasons for concern is the sheer scale of Canada’s euthanasia regime. California provides a useful point of comparison: It legalized medically assisted death the same year as Canada, 2016, and it has about the same population, just under forty million. In 2021 in California, 486 people died using the state’s assisted suicide program. In Canada in the same year, 10,064 people used MAID to die. 70% of the Canadians reported cancer as the reason for MAID. It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering.

ElFitz 4y ago
Or perhaps cancer is better treated in California. Or perhaps palliative care is better in California. I’m not Californian, and I seriously doubt what I just wrote. But there most certainly are more factors that need to be considered here.
tomrod 4y ago
Could you point to the stats for the other 3,000? This is an interesting case. It shows the categories of health issues that seek assisted suicide.
- goatsi 4y ago
  Here you go: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2020.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi... >The majority of persons receiving MAID during 2020 were reported as having cancer as their main underlying medical condition (69.1%). This is followed by cardiovascular conditions (13.8%), chronic respiratory conditions (11.3%) and neurological conditions (10.2%) Some additional breakdowns: >Cardiovascular conditions were the second most frequently cited main condition for persons receiving MAID. Congestive heart failure was the most frequently cited heart condition in this category (42.2%). Under respiratory conditions, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) was the most frequently listed condition. >Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, was the leading neurological condition reported for persons receiving MAID (35.2%), followed by Parkinson's disease (18.1%) multiple sclerosis (MS) (9.7%), and progressive supranuclear palsy (4.4%). Edit: Just realized that was the 2020 report (with around 7500 using MAID). The 2021 report is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi.... Cancer is down a bit in this one (69% to 65%).
wernercd 4y ago
"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...
- msla 4y ago
  > Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right wing to make MAID seem horrible, and therefore something that should be ended, and my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
    The case is already out there. I read an article on cbc that was reporting some insane stuff around MAID, to the point of being scary: yes the government is trying to save money.
  - wernercd 4y ago
    "Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanising-the-poor/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on living’. Another sought euthanasia because Covid-related debt left her unable to pay for the treatment which kept her chronic pain bearable – under the present government, disabled Canadians got $600 in additional financial assistance during Covid; university students got $5,000." So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money? "As long as we're trading conspiracy theories," Other than my "conspiracy" theory being main stream media reported and a simple statement backed by fact. Not your cockamamey bullshit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-veterans-affairs-maid-counselling-1.6560136 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-vete... "According to the report, the veteran called VAC seeking support for PTSD when the employee brought up medical assistance in dying, or euthanasia, unprompted." Oh wait... that's the wrong one. That's not the Wheelchair one... hard to find the right one in the mountain of evidence. https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthanize-christine-gauthier/ https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthani... "A paraplegic former Canadian military member is ripping her government, which offered to euthanize her after she complained about delays having a wheelchair lift installed in her home." If main stream, reliable news sources are 'conspiracy theories' then I'm not sure what you consider real news. "my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does." Other than the fact that my "theory" has backing evidence... and yours is shit pulled out of your ass. You really need to learn what a conspiracy theory is and when real life evidence makes it not a theory.
bhawks 4y ago
Cancers vary significantly in prognosis. Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California. Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult. https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/California https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/Californi... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9067380/#!po=28.7234 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9067380/#!po=28...
- dalyons 4y ago
  Why though? Not a loaded question genuinely curious. More smoking up north?
  - bhawks 4y ago
    Lung cancer == smoking. Colorectal is significantly effected by diet, physical activity and obesity.
    - mft_ 4y ago
      Don’t forget screening. Colorectal is an interesting case as we are already at a place where, by using current screening techniques in a well targeted manner we could essentially eliminate it. As such, different approaches, or funding, or attitudes to screening could also lead to big disparities in incidence and ultimately survival.
  - mumumu 4y ago
    From a quick search, it seems to be due the Radon gas. Exposure to Radon is the #1 cause of lung cancer on non-smoker. Canada ranks third on indoor radon concentration worldwide.
    - havnagiggle 4y ago
      I only learned about this when buying a house and the inspector asking if I wanted to pay to have the test done. It came back positive and I disclosed the results to the seller, and in my state it requires them to mitigate before selling. My second house already had a system installed, but we also sleep on a second floor. I have always wondered how good the mitigation is; is Canada behind on public safety of this issue? Are Radon-related cancers on par in states with more regulation/mitigation?

by goatsi 4y ago

ElFitz 4y ago

Or perhaps cancer is better treated in California. Or perhaps palliative care is better in California. I’m not Californian, and I seriously doubt what I just wrote. But there most certainly are more factors that need to be considered here.

tomrod 4y ago

Could you point to the stats for the other 3,000? This is an interesting case. It shows the categories of health issues that seek assisted suicide.

goatsi 4y ago
Here you go: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2020.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi... >The majority of persons receiving MAID during 2020 were reported as having cancer as their main underlying medical condition (69.1%). This is followed by cardiovascular conditions (13.8%), chronic respiratory conditions (11.3%) and neurological conditions (10.2%) Some additional breakdowns: >Cardiovascular conditions were the second most frequently cited main condition for persons receiving MAID. Congestive heart failure was the most frequently cited heart condition in this category (42.2%). Under respiratory conditions, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) was the most frequently listed condition. >Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), also commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease, was the leading neurological condition reported for persons receiving MAID (35.2%), followed by Parkinson's disease (18.1%) multiple sclerosis (MS) (9.7%), and progressive supranuclear palsy (4.4%). Edit: Just realized that was the 2020 report (with around 7500 using MAID). The 2021 report is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2021.html https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assi.... Cancer is down a bit in this one (69% to 65%).

wernercd 4y ago

"It sounds like thousands of Californians are experiencing unnecessary and extended end of life suffering." Why is that your take? Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? or some other take? We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair...

msla 4y ago
> Why isn't it "Thousands of Canadians are being killed too soon in an effort to save the government money"? Because nobody's made that case. Making a case requires evidence. Not handwaving and appeals to movie plots. > We already have stories of Canada asking Veterans to join "MAID" instead of getting a wheelchair... As long as we're trading conspiracy theories, the person who reported that was paid off by the right wing to make MAID seem horrible, and therefore something that should be ended, and my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
  The case is already out there. I read an article on cbc that was reporting some insane stuff around MAID, to the point of being scary: yes the government is trying to save money.
- wernercd 4y ago
  "Nobody's made the case" Tons of people are making the case. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanising-the-poor/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-is-canada-euthanisin... "Since then, things have only gotten worse. A woman in Ontario was forced into euthanasia because her housing benefits did not allow her to get better housing which didn’t aggravate her crippling allergies. Another disabled woman applied to die because she ‘simply cannot afford to keep on living’. Another sought euthanasia because Covid-related debt left her unable to pay for the treatment which kept her chronic pain bearable – under the present government, disabled Canadians got $600 in additional financial assistance during Covid; university students got $5,000." So again: Why isn't the take that Thousands are dying to soon to save money? "As long as we're trading conspiracy theories," Other than my "conspiracy" theory being main stream media reported and a simple statement backed by fact. Not your cockamamey bullshit: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-veterans-affairs-maid-counselling-1.6560136 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/prince-edward-island/pei-vete... "According to the report, the veteran called VAC seeking support for PTSD when the employee brought up medical assistance in dying, or euthanasia, unprompted." Oh wait... that's the wrong one. That's not the Wheelchair one... hard to find the right one in the mountain of evidence. https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthanize-christine-gauthier/ https://nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthani... "A paraplegic former Canadian military member is ripping her government, which offered to euthanize her after she complained about delays having a wheelchair lift installed in her home." If main stream, reliable news sources are 'conspiracy theories' then I'm not sure what you consider real news. "my conspiracy theory has a lot more going for it than yours does." Other than the fact that my "theory" has backing evidence... and yours is shit pulled out of your ass. You really need to learn what a conspiracy theory is and when real life evidence makes it not a theory.

bhawks 4y ago

Cancers vary significantly in prognosis. Canada has over double the number of deaths due to lung cancer and nearly double the deaths due to colorectal cancer compared to California. Essentially cancer looks different in California than Canada. This makes drawing conclusions that there are thousands suffering unnecessarily extended end of life experiences difficult. https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/California https://cancerstatisticscenter.cancer.org/#!/state/Californi... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9067380/#!po=28.7234 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9067380/#!po=28...

dalyons 4y ago
Why though? Not a loaded question genuinely curious. More smoking up north?
- bhawks 4y ago
  Lung cancer == smoking. Colorectal is significantly effected by diet, physical activity and obesity.
  - mft_ 4y ago
    Don’t forget screening. Colorectal is an interesting case as we are already at a place where, by using current screening techniques in a well targeted manner we could essentially eliminate it. As such, different approaches, or funding, or attitudes to screening could also lead to big disparities in incidence and ultimately survival.
- mumumu 4y ago
  From a quick search, it seems to be due the Radon gas. Exposure to Radon is the #1 cause of lung cancer on non-smoker. Canada ranks third on indoor radon concentration worldwide.
  - havnagiggle 4y ago
    I only learned about this when buying a house and the inspector asking if I wanted to pay to have the test done. It came back positive and I disclosed the results to the seller, and in my state it requires them to mitigate before selling. My second house already had a system installed, but we also sleep on a second floor. I have always wondered how good the mitigation is; is Canada behind on public safety of this issue? Are Radon-related cancers on par in states with more regulation/mitigation?