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> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own m

by htag 4y ago

> The Canadian Association of MAID Assessors and Providers, the leading organization of Canadian euthanasia providers, has sat on credible evidence by its own members that people are being driven to euthanasia by credit card debt, poor housing, and difficulties getting medical care. Did I miss the actual concrete evidence this is being purposefully being used to reduce certain populations?

janef0421 4y ago
It doesn't really matter what the intent of the government and medical establishment is; In fact, it may not even be coherent to attribute intent to such an entity. What matters is what the system does, and the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised.
- htag 4y ago
  > the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised The enter point of the MAiD system is to result in deaths. I think the intent matters a lot. I don't think it's a cause for alarm if we find some subpopulations that use a medical service more than others. I do think it's alarming if people are scheming to kill poor people.
  - janef0421 4y ago
    What practical utility does that perspective have? The precise intention of the creators of a scheme does not have any distinct impact on anyone else, and is incredibly difficult to verify.
    - htag 4y ago
      The utility is to identify criminal activity
bjt2n3904 4y ago
- tomrod 4y ago
  That isn't a solution, its a personal ideology made manifest and an extreme response to the recent controversy around a veteran inappropriately offered MAID for PTSD and suicidal thoughts, for which the offeror was sacked. There are legitimate, compassionate reasons to allow people the choice to die with dignity.
  - bjt2n3904 4y ago
    - tomrod 4y ago
      Murder: kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation. As assisted suicide is lawful in Canada, the definition does not apply. EDIT: > Edit: He does not know. Oh I weep for this ignorant generation. The reckoning of this will be dear. It has also been a long time since someone has thought of me as part of a rising generation. Decades, even. While I appreciate the thought that I am youthful and ignorant, I am neither.
mmastrac 4y ago
I suspect the author has an agenda and a slant, given the read of his twitter account and some of the slippery logic he's using in this article.
- tomrod 4y ago
  - joe_the_user 4y ago
    - tomrod 4y ago
      > The problem of the Canadian state offering to kill people who've lost their welfare benefits is something I know independently from this article. Do share your sources, so that we can leave ideologically biased "gotcha" journalists to do their thing while we look at a real issue. > The larger question should be discussed rather than this particular article's slant speculated on. Indeed. The veteran with PTSD and suicidal thoughts did the right thing by calling out the person who invited them to MAID, and it was the right thing for the person to be sacked. > I just down voted you in both place without needing any incentive. And?
37 4y ago
Not sure if I understand, but the article gives a number of examples, such as: > Mary knows that she could control her pain if she could take vitamin pills, eat a special diet, and go to physiotherapy. She can’t afford it. “Mary identifies poverty as the driver of her MAID request,” Gibb-Carsley writes on a slide accompanying her talk, emphasizing the. “She does not want to die, but she’s suffering terribly and she’s been maxing out her credit cards. She has no other options.”
- htag 4y ago
  The question I was trying to ask is. 1. Are people in poverty or with mental illness more likely to choose MAID on their own. or 2. Are there people actively trying to encourage vulnerable populations to choose MAID?
- igorkraw 4y ago
  I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? It seems excessively cruel to me to try and force people to live in misery big enough to make the want to kill themselves instead of alleviating the misery. Like, the article seems to frame the argument that MAID can be used to lobby for better welfare as a ridiculous idea, but that's really it: if the only thing keeping people in your society from killing themselves that it's hard and scary, what the fuck is your society doing to these people.
  - joe_the_user 4y ago
    I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? This is a perverse sort of argument. I'm in favor of social services (UBI or otherwise) sufficient to prevent homelessness. There are a lot problematic things situations in this society. But these aren't going away tomorrow - in our world homeless will be with us for a while and you shouldn't add to the problem of homelessness the problem of social services making it easy to just end your life if you're threatened with homelessness.
    - 4y ago

by htag 4y ago

janef0421 4y ago

It doesn't really matter what the intent of the government and medical establishment is; In fact, it may not even be coherent to attribute intent to such an entity. What matters is what the system does, and the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised.

htag 4y ago
> the evidence clearly indicates that the MAiD system is resulting in the deaths of the socially marginalised The enter point of the MAiD system is to result in deaths. I think the intent matters a lot. I don't think it's a cause for alarm if we find some subpopulations that use a medical service more than others. I do think it's alarming if people are scheming to kill poor people.
- janef0421 4y ago
  What practical utility does that perspective have? The precise intention of the creators of a scheme does not have any distinct impact on anyone else, and is incredibly difficult to verify.
  - htag 4y ago
    The utility is to identify criminal activity

bjt2n3904 4y ago

tomrod 4y ago
That isn't a solution, its a personal ideology made manifest and an extreme response to the recent controversy around a veteran inappropriately offered MAID for PTSD and suicidal thoughts, for which the offeror was sacked. There are legitimate, compassionate reasons to allow people the choice to die with dignity.
- bjt2n3904 4y ago
  - tomrod 4y ago
    Murder: kill (someone) unlawfully and with premeditation. As assisted suicide is lawful in Canada, the definition does not apply. EDIT: > Edit: He does not know. Oh I weep for this ignorant generation. The reckoning of this will be dear. It has also been a long time since someone has thought of me as part of a rising generation. Decades, even. While I appreciate the thought that I am youthful and ignorant, I am neither.

mmastrac 4y ago

I suspect the author has an agenda and a slant, given the read of his twitter account and some of the slippery logic he's using in this article.

tomrod 4y ago
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  - tomrod 4y ago
    > The problem of the Canadian state offering to kill people who've lost their welfare benefits is something I know independently from this article. Do share your sources, so that we can leave ideologically biased "gotcha" journalists to do their thing while we look at a real issue. > The larger question should be discussed rather than this particular article's slant speculated on. Indeed. The veteran with PTSD and suicidal thoughts did the right thing by calling out the person who invited them to MAID, and it was the right thing for the person to be sacked. > I just down voted you in both place without needing any incentive. And?

37 4y ago

Not sure if I understand, but the article gives a number of examples, such as: > Mary knows that she could control her pain if she could take vitamin pills, eat a special diet, and go to physiotherapy. She can’t afford it. “Mary identifies poverty as the driver of her MAID request,” Gibb-Carsley writes on a slide accompanying her talk, emphasizing the. “She does not want to die, but she’s suffering terribly and she’s been maxing out her credit cards. She has no other options.”

htag 4y ago
The question I was trying to ask is. 1. Are people in poverty or with mental illness more likely to choose MAID on their own. or 2. Are there people actively trying to encourage vulnerable populations to choose MAID?
igorkraw 4y ago
I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? It seems excessively cruel to me to try and force people to live in misery big enough to make the want to kill themselves instead of alleviating the misery. Like, the article seems to frame the argument that MAID can be used to lobby for better welfare as a ridiculous idea, but that's really it: if the only thing keeping people in your society from killing themselves that it's hard and scary, what the fuck is your society doing to these people.
- joe_the_user 4y ago
  I'm wondering, does this example work as anti-euthanasia instead of pro-UBI to anyone reading it (or the rest of the article)? This is a perverse sort of argument. I'm in favor of social services (UBI or otherwise) sufficient to prevent homelessness. There are a lot problematic things situations in this society. But these aren't going away tomorrow - in our world homeless will be with us for a while and you shouldn't add to the problem of homelessness the problem of social services making it easy to just end your life if you're threatened with homelessness.
  - 4y ago