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"probably every field has projects that a back of the envelope calculation shows are obviously a terrible idea but they go ahead anyway. Solar roadways" Solar

"probably every field has projects that a back of the envelope calculation shows are obviously a terrible idea but they go ahead anyway. Solar roadways" Solar roadways for example are only a terrible idea, as long as sturdy solar panels remains expensive, and there is lots of other unused area to be covered much more cheaply. That might change one day, but yes, until then it is an idea from people who are too lazy to do the basic math.

IshKebab 4y ago
It won't change one day. If we exhaust all better locations for solar panels than roads then we will already have enough solar energy to power the world many times over. Almost anywhere is better than a road.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "Almost anywhere is better than a road." No, because land close to humans is limited and I would like at least some forest to remain forests. If it would be really cheap to add solar panels as a bonus, even with no high efficency, this whole idea makes sense, otherwise not. So I wouldn't rule it out, if there would be a significant cheaper way, but I surely would not bet on that idea. If anything, I would make the panels as a roof over the road and get sound protection for the people and snow protection for the road as well. Still quite expensive
  - crooked-v 4y ago
    > and I would like at least some forest to remain forests You're dramatically overestimating the actual land coverage that would be needed to power the entire world with solar panels (assuming one abstracts away the problem of actually running power lines everywhere). A square 340 miles on a side would do it, from the back-of-the-envelope calculations I've seen.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      The forests are not cut down because of solar panels, but because of agriculture. The more land that is covered with solar panels, means less land for agriculture (I like the dual use concept, though). The spaces here in germany, that are covered with solar panels, would have been adequate agriculture area, but is now ugly and in use. So if you could just use the road as the space, you could save that other land for other use. This is the idea behind it.
  - IshKebab 4y ago
    > No, because land close to humans is limited It's not that limited. Think how many roofs there are. Or car parks. Also HVDC power transmission is a thing now. You don't even need to have your power source close to humans.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      "Also HVDC power transmission is a thing now." It has always been a thing, but it still means losses and expenses to build it. If you could have solar panels in the road, you could charge electric cars directly and efficently. But like I said, unlikely to happen.
      - IshKebab 4y ago
        I mean yeah but "if we had magical technology that doesn't exist we could use it" isn't a very interesting fact.
        hutzlibu 4y ago
        Solar panels are a very real technology and solar roads are working. It is just that they are too expensive to make much sense. With many potential new solar tech that is in the pipeline, that might change.
bee_rider 4y ago
I think it will be a long, long time until a solar panel which can be driven over is price competitive with a normal one. Anyway, we’ve signed up for a bit of desertification already with climate change, right? So there will be somewhere to put the panels in a nice space efficient shape like a square. Honestly I wonder every time it comes up whether the solar road was a straightforward grift or something more nefarious like an attempt to make environmentalists look ridiculous.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "Honestly I wonder every time it comes up whether the solar road was a straightforward grift or something more nefarious like an attempt to make environmentalists look ridiculous." It is easy to forget, but the majority of people hate math and are not scientists. The idea of solar panels sounds and feels good, so it must be good. And I strongly feel and identify as a environmentalist, but sadly I have to state, that many fellow environmentalists are acting ridiculous, or rather naive.

IshKebab 4y ago

It won't change one day. If we exhaust all better locations for solar panels than roads then we will already have enough solar energy to power the world many times over. Almost anywhere is better than a road.

hutzlibu 4y ago
"Almost anywhere is better than a road." No, because land close to humans is limited and I would like at least some forest to remain forests. If it would be really cheap to add solar panels as a bonus, even with no high efficency, this whole idea makes sense, otherwise not. So I wouldn't rule it out, if there would be a significant cheaper way, but I surely would not bet on that idea. If anything, I would make the panels as a roof over the road and get sound protection for the people and snow protection for the road as well. Still quite expensive
- crooked-v 4y ago
  > and I would like at least some forest to remain forests You're dramatically overestimating the actual land coverage that would be needed to power the entire world with solar panels (assuming one abstracts away the problem of actually running power lines everywhere). A square 340 miles on a side would do it, from the back-of-the-envelope calculations I've seen.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    The forests are not cut down because of solar panels, but because of agriculture. The more land that is covered with solar panels, means less land for agriculture (I like the dual use concept, though). The spaces here in germany, that are covered with solar panels, would have been adequate agriculture area, but is now ugly and in use. So if you could just use the road as the space, you could save that other land for other use. This is the idea behind it.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  > No, because land close to humans is limited It's not that limited. Think how many roofs there are. Or car parks. Also HVDC power transmission is a thing now. You don't even need to have your power source close to humans.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "Also HVDC power transmission is a thing now." It has always been a thing, but it still means losses and expenses to build it. If you could have solar panels in the road, you could charge electric cars directly and efficently. But like I said, unlikely to happen.
    - IshKebab 4y ago
      I mean yeah but "if we had magical technology that doesn't exist we could use it" isn't a very interesting fact.
      - hutzlibu 4y ago
        Solar panels are a very real technology and solar roads are working. It is just that they are too expensive to make much sense. With many potential new solar tech that is in the pipeline, that might change.

bee_rider 4y ago

I think it will be a long, long time until a solar panel which can be driven over is price competitive with a normal one. Anyway, we’ve signed up for a bit of desertification already with climate change, right? So there will be somewhere to put the panels in a nice space efficient shape like a square. Honestly I wonder every time it comes up whether the solar road was a straightforward grift or something more nefarious like an attempt to make environmentalists look ridiculous.

hutzlibu 4y ago
"Honestly I wonder every time it comes up whether the solar road was a straightforward grift or something more nefarious like an attempt to make environmentalists look ridiculous." It is easy to forget, but the majority of people hate math and are not scientists. The idea of solar panels sounds and feels good, so it must be good. And I strongly feel and identify as a environmentalist, but sadly I have to state, that many fellow environmentalists are acting ridiculous, or rather naive.