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How the McMurtry Electric Fan Car Clocked a 7.9-Second Quarter-Mile
- trenning 4y agoThis fan downforce enabled EV race car with slicks on it can do a 0-60 in 1.4 seconds. I thinks this puts to rest the Musk claim of a 1.1 sec 0-60 Tesla Roadster if there still any people still hanging on to that fantasy.
- spullara 4y agoThey are claiming 1.9s? Where did you see 1.1? https://www.tesla.com/roadster https://www.tesla.com/roadster
- petewailes 4y agoNot the OP. You're right, it was always 1.9. They're still talking out of their backsides though. If the Rimac supercars can't do it without a fan to suck the car to the ground, Tesla sure can't. Without a fan you just can't get the traction you'd need. There's no tyre on the planet which could grip that hard. Additional detail - I suspect with a one foot rollout, on a VHT surface, on a hot day, in ideal conditions, they might be able to get down to a 1.95/1.93 sort of area. But on actual normal road surface, from stationary, with the tyres it comes with? Not a chance. I'd be astonished if they got to a 2.05. 1.90? Not a hope. Source - knowing far too much about tyre/road interaction.
- spullara 4y agoModel S Plaid has been clocked at < 2s by 3rd parties so I don't think 1.9 flat is that farfetched for the roadster.
- petewailes 4y agoYou're not wrong, but not entirely right either. They've not done it on a road surface from standing start. I know a reasonable amount about the tests that have been done to make those numbers, and Tesla require a foot rollout on VHT to get a 1.99/1.98 time. That's not the same as from standing on tarmac or concrete. Rough rule of thumb is that starting from stopped on tarmac costs you about 25-.3s depending on conditions.
- phphphphp 4y agoHe made the claim on twitter: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1395474465794838528 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1395474465794838528 ("Yes, with the SpaceX rocket thruster option package" is a reply to someone asking if 1.1 seconds is true).
- spullara 4y agoThat doesn't sound sarcastic at all. /s
- red369 4y agoI can see how Musk’s comment does sound sarcastic, but I think the Space X package isn’t generally being considered as a joke: https://www.motor1.com/news/508914/tesla-roadster-spacex-speed-claim/ https://www.motor1.com/news/508914/tesla-roadster-spacex-spe...
- spullara 4y agoWhelp, no need for traction then :)
- tromp 4y ago> a stupefying 1.4-second 0-60 run in less-than-ideal conditions. I don't know why they call the following less than ideal: > the manufacturer hired a jet truck to dry the back straight at the famed F1 circuit. There, and after doing a burnout to warm up the tires Perhaps they could have waited for a strong tail wind?! [EDIT: apparently it could be warmer and the road drier still] Anyway, seems they have a good shot at taking over the 0-62 mph in 1.461 sec record set by these guys https://techstory.in/students-of-university-of-stuttgart-make-fastest-accelerating-ev https://techstory.in/students-of-university-of-stuttgart-mak... A road-legal version is apparently on the way https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/01/mcmurtry-sperling-fan-car-road-legal-version/ https://www.autoblog.com/2022/07/01/mcmurtry-sperling-fan-ca...
- jackmott 4y agoThe track still wasnt dry, you can see the moisture
- nicowsen 4y agoThey did this in winter in England. Even if the track was dry, it was still far from the ideal surface temperature for something like this. The conditions certainly weren't aweful, but they were not ideal (or less-than-ideal).
- prng2021 4y agoWeren’t awful? That’s like saying a 99/100 exam score isn’t awful, but it’s not ideal either. There was no tire spin and that was so close to ideal conditions that I imagine the most they could shave off is a few hundredths of a second. Even if they couldn’t, it’s mind boggling how fast this car is.
- jackmott42 4y agoThere was no tire spin because the computers don't allow it. If you provide more grip the car provides more power.
- macmac 4y ago
- hef19898 4y agoFor everyone who wants to see it in action, check out the video of the Goodwood hillclimb where the McMurty set the record. Ideally the full video with the runner ups, otherwise you would think the video is running at 1.5x speed.
- lelag 4y ago> It weighs less than one ton and boasts two electric motors that produce up to 1,000 hp. According to Chief Engineer Kevin Ukoko-Rongione, that's more than one horsepower per kilo Good thing it was pointed out by the Chief Engineer. I wonder how he worked it out but I guess we can trust him... /s
- ambicapter 4y agoThe downforce fan technique was also done by Formula 1 in the late 70s before being banned the year after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B_%E2%80%93_the_fan_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabham_BT46#Brabham_BT46B_%E2...
- joncrane 4y agoIt was actually banned almost immediately after convincingly winning its inaugural race, at the hands of the legendary Niki Lauda.
- dom96 4y agoI wonder why it still remains banned. Surely once all cars can get the same fans it should be allowed?
- lljk_kennedy 4y agoCosts cap most likely.
- VBprogrammer 4y agoWe could build a car which no human being could survive a 100 mile race in today. The human is the limiting factor so we have to limit the technology to what humans (even elite sportsmen) can deal with. There are all kinds of restrictions added to race cars of almost any series, some for commercial reasons (promoting the original vehicle in rallying and touring cars for example), some for financial (generally to keep the price of entry reasonable) and sometimes for safety.
- fnimick 4y agoRelevant XKCD: https://what-if.xkcd.com/116/ https://what-if.xkcd.com/116/
- smm11 4y agoNot at all related, but I watched the various motorcycle jumps of the Caesars Palace fountains the other day. Watching Travis Pastrana jump the fountains on a fairly heavy Indian flat track bike, with modern ramps designed with computer input, and planning rather than seat-of-the-pants go-for-it-ness made it okay, but hardly death-defying. I see guys jump motorcycles furthers on the dunes in Southern California. When EK did it, it was terrifying. Just like F1 was, once upon a time. Now F1 is scary because speeds are up against human reaction. It's inevitable the cars either have to slow down, or the driver needs to be on controls not in the car, making this ground-based drones.
- aitchnyu 4y agoIf we consider goals of future cars to emit less co2, microplastics, brake dust and safer, how does modern racing advance these goals? In my jaded view, rich guys are going faster and nothing trickling down to economy cars.
- LeonM 4y agoCurrent generation F1 engines for example, are limited to just 1.6L (97 cubic inch) displacement, and teams are not allowed to refuel during the race. This forces engineers to design more efficient engines (less fuel equals less weight). Last season's cars were reported to achieve over 50% thermal efficiency (compared to ~20% for a regular road-going car) and close to 1000hp. Whether this technology actually trickles down to production vehicles is debatable. But traditionally racing has been the incentive for major advances to be made in efficiency, aerodynamics, drivetrain components, tyres etc.
- arethuza 4y agoWorth noting that seventy years ago we had 1.5L V16 F1 engines producing 600HP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Racing_Motors_V16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Racing_Motors_V16 They weren't the most reliable things though....
- scarier 4y agoI mean, in the 1980s turbo era F1 engines were putting out way more than that--try around 1000 hp/l! That was done with absurd levels of boost, fuel that bore little to no chemical resemblance to gasoline, and engines with a life expectancy (in qualifying trim) measured in single-digit laps. The advances in modern engines' efficiency and reliability are staggering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M12
- Rastonbury 4y agoThink of racing as entertainment, what does tennis do for the world? And I think tennis is great
- zinxq 4y agoThe human is starting to look like the weakest link. For such a closed track (known route to the centimeter, guaranteed no obstacles, etc) - a Self-Driving version of this could do it a good deal faster.
- nwienert 4y agoAI plays better chess but no one watches them in tournaments.
- orbital-decay 4y ago>The human is starting to look like the weakest link. Human is a weakest link since 80s. That's the entire reason Group B has been cancelled and F-1 regulated into oblivion.
- hef19898 4y agoIt took WRC all of two years to be faster than Group B. Turned out focusing on suspension and handling improved performance more than pure performance. That being said, Group B was just awesome and crazy. And not just because of the cars or the drivers, spectators were just as crazy, as were officials with their utter disregard for safety.
- Rastonbury 4y agoYeah I'd like to see that one day on regular tracks, a true mechanical and AI engineering arms race. Though I think it would be too expensive
- killingtime74 4y agoThere is no point without a human, what's the difference between that and a bullet/missile?
- tshaddox 4y agoYou could still have human operators. Competitive drone racing is pretty neat.
- jdfellow 4y agoThe Gordon Murray T.50 hypercar also has a downforce fan. https://gordonmurrayautomotive.com/cars/t50s https://gordonmurrayautomotive.com/cars/t50s
- jackmott42 4y agoKind of, it doesn't use a skirt or suck the car towards the ground. It uses a fan to guide the air allowing for steeper diffuser angles than would normally work. So you get an indirect downforce improvement. In the end you get an effect that is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude smaller than sucking the car to the ground with a skirt.
- westmeal 4y agoHere's a honda civic hatch doing a 6.9 second 1/4 mile. https://youtu.be/vKFr82qnN0c?t=262 https://youtu.be/vKFr82qnN0c?t=262
- matthewmcg 4y agoWhen I read “electric fan car” I thought the fans would be producing forward thrust to accelerate the car, not downforce. This raises the question—would it be more effective to accelerate the car this way (probably less efficient, even with huge aircraft style electric ducted fans) vs. putting the force through the wheels (limited by traction)?
- jackmott42 4y agowell it sucks to the ground AND blows that air out the back, though the thrust is negligible. The answer to your question though is no. It is much more efficient to push against the ground with the tire. In fact this sucking method is more efficient than a wing or other aerodynamic down-force devices. You might see the wing they have no go away at some point, as it was added to improve balance. Maybe they will figure out how to adjust that with the skirt or something.
- petewailes 4y agoI could go into the physics, but in short, no. Two hard contact patches just grab way more than a propeller can on air. In water it'd work, but then you've made a boat and the wheels are irrelevant. Boats have always been capable of faster acceleration in theory. Problem Child, for example, did 0 to above 250mph in about 3.5s.
- Mesopropithecus 4y agoGiven the car is lightweight while the fan generates such strong downforce, would it lift off if it was to actually flip over?
- jackmott42 4y agono, you can get a lot more downforce with a skirt sealed against the road (nearly) than you would get in open air just trying to thrust upward.
- rad_gruchalski 4y agoNo, it’s worth watching this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TptzkkbC1vE https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TptzkkbC1vE.
- kstrauser 4y agoThe video was a joy to watch. Everyone on camera was having fun and allowing themselves to be fully excited and enthusiastic.
- jgalt212 4y agoWhat's the record for the quarter-mile using a high school track? That I would pay to see.
- macmac 4y agoI think the hill climb record at Goodwood this summer was even more impressive. That thing looks like it is glued to the track. Check out a few other cars doing the climb and you will see a noticeable difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JYp9eGC3Cc