4 ms·

Referring to a trans person by the wrong gender repeatedly is a good example of hate speech. It reminds of an old joke: Conservative: "I keep getting banned f

Referring to a trans person by the wrong gender repeatedly is a good example of hate speech. It reminds of an old joke: Conservative: "I keep getting banned for my views" Rando: "Oh, small government?" C: "No, not that one" R: "Oh, so fiscal responsibility?" C: "Not that either" R: "So which ones?" C: "Oh, uh... You know."

Khaine 4y ago
No it’s not. Referring to a trans person by the wrong pronouns repeatedly is just rude. It isn’t hate speech That’s just watering down what hate speech is.
- Shared404 4y ago
  Speech designed to A) Harm the target, who has gone out of their way to avoid that harm already (by transitioning/changing pronouns) B) Dehumanize the target in the eyes of others (this person doesn't matter, their wishes are to be entirely disrespected) seems like a reasonable candidate for hate speech to me.
  - bennies4grojnd 4y ago
    Pointing out that a man who desires to be a woman is still really a man, is an act of speech that neither causes him harm nor dehumanizes him. It's very silly to claim that this is some type of hate.
    - Shared404 4y ago
      Aww, look at you making a throwaway to respond to my comments, it's cute :3 E: Removed the troll feeding bits.
      - bennies4grojnd 4y ago
        See, you know it doesn't really make any sense to call this hate speech, otherwise you wouldn't have deflected into accusations of trolling.
        Shared404 4y ago
        Then come back with your real handle and we'll talk. If you're not willing to interact in good faith, it is only safe to assume that you are a troll.
        bennies4grojnd 4y ago
        You are still deflecting.
        Shared404 4y ago
        Ugh, fine. > neither causes harm https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/transphobia#effects-on-mental-health https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/transphobia#effect... > Nor dehumanizes Intentionally causing harm (see above) and pushing for it to be acceptable for others to cause harm is in fact dehumanizing. I note you still fail to present any argument other than "I feel like you're wrong"
        bennies4grojnd 4y ago
        So, let's say that someone (like a user of Twitter, or a writer for the Babylon Bee) points out that Rachel Levine, a public figure, is a man. How does that actually harm him? He's in an incredibly privileged position, and indeed has enjoyed male privilege for pretty much all of his life. Should we avoid saying any truth that might slightly upset a public figure, or anyone really, just in case they feel a bit sad if they happen to hear it?
        Shared404 4y ago
        It continues to drive the narrative that trans people are invalid, and also has knock-on effects for every trans person who reads that post. > just in case they feel a bit sad if they happen to hear it I recommend you read that source I provided again. E: And a couple others - https://mentalhealthcommission.ca/resource/transgender-people-and-suicide-fact-sheet/ https://mentalhealthcommission.ca/resource/transgender-peopl... https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ Good paper, but here's a sentence from the conclusion. > Findings underscore the importance of risk factors such as emotional neglect within the family, interpersonal microaggressions, and internalized self-stigma In addition, what reason do you have to not respect a trans persons identity? Biological sex is already much _much_ more complex than just the XY we're taught in middle school. Klinefelter's and intersex people both exist, as do other blurred lines. There's also nothing inherent about 'sex == gender' - transgender people have existed throughout history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history Now then, unless you provide actually interesting input we're done here until you come back with your main :).

Khaine 4y ago

No it’s not. Referring to a trans person by the wrong pronouns repeatedly is just rude. It isn’t hate speech That’s just watering down what hate speech is.

Shared404 4y ago
Speech designed to A) Harm the target, who has gone out of their way to avoid that harm already (by transitioning/changing pronouns) B) Dehumanize the target in the eyes of others (this person doesn't matter, their wishes are to be entirely disrespected) seems like a reasonable candidate for hate speech to me.
- bennies4grojnd 4y ago
  Pointing out that a man who desires to be a woman is still really a man, is an act of speech that neither causes him harm nor dehumanizes him. It's very silly to claim that this is some type of hate.
  - Shared404 4y ago
    Aww, look at you making a throwaway to respond to my comments, it's cute :3 E: Removed the troll feeding bits.
    - bennies4grojnd 4y ago
      See, you know it doesn't really make any sense to call this hate speech, otherwise you wouldn't have deflected into accusations of trolling.
      - Shared404 4y ago
        Then come back with your real handle and we'll talk. If you're not willing to interact in good faith, it is only safe to assume that you are a troll.
        bennies4grojnd 4y ago
        You are still deflecting.
        Shared404 4y ago
        Ugh, fine. > neither causes harm https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/transphobia#effects-on-mental-health https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/transphobia#effect... > Nor dehumanizes Intentionally causing harm (see above) and pushing for it to be acceptable for others to cause harm is in fact dehumanizing. I note you still fail to present any argument other than "I feel like you're wrong"
        bennies4grojnd 4y ago
        So, let's say that someone (like a user of Twitter, or a writer for the Babylon Bee) points out that Rachel Levine, a public figure, is a man. How does that actually harm him? He's in an incredibly privileged position, and indeed has enjoyed male privilege for pretty much all of his life. Should we avoid saying any truth that might slightly upset a public figure, or anyone really, just in case they feel a bit sad if they happen to hear it?
        Shared404 4y ago
        It continues to drive the narrative that trans people are invalid, and also has knock-on effects for every trans person who reads that post. > just in case they feel a bit sad if they happen to hear it I recommend you read that source I provided again. E: And a couple others - https://mentalhealthcommission.ca/resource/transgender-people-and-suicide-fact-sheet/ https://mentalhealthcommission.ca/resource/transgender-peopl... https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/ Good paper, but here's a sentence from the conclusion. > Findings underscore the importance of risk factors such as emotional neglect within the family, interpersonal microaggressions, and internalized self-stigma In addition, what reason do you have to not respect a trans persons identity? Biological sex is already much _much_ more complex than just the XY we're taught in middle school. Klinefelter's and intersex people both exist, as do other blurred lines. There's also nothing inherent about 'sex == gender' - transgender people have existed throughout history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_history Now then, unless you provide actually interesting input we're done here until you come back with your main :).