7 ms·

Not related to slack, but managing your ADHD symptoms. Look into a low oxalate diet, it really helped me and my children. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/219

Not related to slack, but managing your ADHD symptoms. Look into a low oxalate diet, it really helped me and my children. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21911305/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21911305/ https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/articles-1/2015/11/13/oxalates-control-is-a-major-new-factor-in-autism-therapy https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/articles-1/2015/11/13/... https://korunutrition.com/autism-low-oxalate-diet/ https://korunutrition.com/autism-low-oxalate-diet/ https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders/#gsc.tab=0 https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/vegetarianism-and...

_8j50 4y ago
Damn it, they have tea on that list of oxalates. Adderal to the rescue!
loxias 4y ago
Interesting links, thanks! (in case it helps anyone else...) About half a year ago I discovered that a brutally low carb diet -- leading to being in ketosis -- drastically helped my ADHD as well as other mental health things I've struggled with for my entire life. I wish I knew earlier!
- dchristian 4y ago
  Two things that might also work, but be easier. Supplement MCT oil. This turns into keytones in the body. See The Complete Book of Ketones by Mary Newport for all the science. She's got into it for Alzheimers, but the applicability is wider than that. Go gluten-free and casein-free. That's eliminating wheat and dairy in your diet. Both of these turn into a form of morphine in the body. Look up glutomorphine and casomorphine. A slightly easier diet to stick to than keto. This cured my aspergers.
  - loxias 4y ago
    Cool. Thanks! Already using MCT oil in lots of cooking :) Had no idea about dairy... interesting, I eat a lot of high fat cheese. Thanks for the references, I'll certainly read more.
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    >Go gluten-free and casein-free. That's eliminating wheat and dairy in your diet. Both of these turn into a form of morphine in the body. Look up glutomorphine and casomorphine. A slightly easier diet to stick to than keto. This cured my aspergers. This cure for Autism is broadly related to the leaky gut hypothesis of autism, rather infamously propagated by Andrew Wakefield in the 90s more generally and Jenny McCarthy more specifically went after gluten/casein in the 2000s. PETA made an infamous ad saying that milk causes Autism [1] because milk has Casein. This is to say that enough noise got made about this specific claim it got researched a bit. Generally this diet has specifically been studied for autism treatment and the efficence of it's efficacy is very lacking for me [2][3] This all being said, this doesn't necessarily mean that nobody can benefit from a casein or gluten free diet, there's simply insufficient evidence to say that people who avoid milk and bagels are autistic less often/less autistic. [1] https://www.dairyreporter.com/var/wrbm_gb_food_pharma/storage/images/publications/food-beverage-nutrition/dairyreporter.com/article/2014/06/02/ndc-slams-science-behind-resurfaced-peta-got-autism-campaign/1844207-6-eng-GB/NDC-slams-science-behind-resurfaced-PETA-Got-Autism-campaign.jpg https://www.dairyreporter.com/var/wrbm_gb_food_pharma/storag... [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-019-04266-9 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-019-04266-9 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651765/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651765/
    - boplicity 4y ago
      The problem with those studies is that a Gluten free or a gluten and dairy free diet is not enough to actually treat "leaky gut" or similar issues. It's a bit like saying you can fix an ecosystem by removing two invasive species from the environment. Sure, it might work, but it's such an oversimplification that the results will appear random, or, "inconclusive." Studying diets is notoriously difficult, and rarely done in a helpful way. Everybody has a different internal ecosystem -- as well as different dietary stimulus, even if they're following the same diet. This makes it incredibly difficult to draw broad conclusions based on controlling just one or two dietary factors. This is rather unfortunate -- because the right dietary treatments can be truly transformative for many people, for a variety of conditions. However, because of the difficulty of proving this scientifically, such treatments are ignored by the medical community, leaving patients to figure this avenue of treatment out on their own. The answer, in my opinion, is massive funding -- the kind of funding that can compete with billion dollar drugs (such as Humira). However, that's really not going to happen. Oh well. Sorry for the rant!
  - k__ 4y ago
    I had the impression that the gluten/casein morphin thesis has been debunked.
    - dchristian 4y ago
      A reference would be helpful :-) Gluten and dairy are in almost all packaged foods. They drive cravability in a big way. So I'm guessing any "debunking" was funded by someone making money from this. There are a few people who are immune to the effect. You can pick them out because they either dislike or simply don't care for cheese (which is mostly casein).
- LocalPCGuy 4y ago
  I don't think I actually put this together until I read your comment. My actual diagnosis came just after I went off keto after having been doing it pretty steadily for about 3 years. I wonder now if the reason I noticed the symptoms of lack of focus more prior to seeking help and my diagnosis now was because it was better controlled while I was on keto and in ketosis. I know looking back I still had symptoms. I can remember days during those 3 years just sitting in the office and realizing I had not gotten a single thing actually done and it was mid-afternoon already. But also had stretches of incredible productivity also. Thanks for the prompt - been considering going back on keto, one of the reasons I went off is the mixed scientific evidence for its efficacy over other diets (not specifically for weight loss, just diet in the context of "way of eating") and some warnings about the lack of long-term study data because it's so hard for individuals to stay on long term. But this gives me another data point to consider and something to watch if I do try it again.
  - boplicity 4y ago
    My random opinion: It's best to go on Keto intermittently; say 2 month on, 2 months off, or similar variation. I would be hesitant to be on it permanently, but doing it off and on feels safer to me. One of the nice things, for me, in terms of having been on Keto occassionally, if that it's given me the ability to go for extended periods without needing to eat. I don't crash, in terms of blood sugar, the way I used to. Even when I'm not eating super low carb.
    - kennedywm 4y ago
      Ketogenic diets likely increase insulin sensitivity, which may explain your experience.
- k__ 4y ago
  I did keto 3 weeks ago. After 3 days of it, I felt very focused and got done a bunch of stuff I was procrastinating for months. I thought this was a coincidence.
- FearlessNebula 4y ago
  Andrew Huberman recently had a Harvard educated psychiatrist on the podcast. This psychiatrist specialized in treatment resistant mental health conditions. He was trying to help a patient lose weight and inadvertently found it helped their psychiatric symptoms as well. Fast forward 5 years and he had written a book, and the tl;dr is that he has seen many patients improve their conditions be going low / no carb. For patients with less extreme disease they can often get by with low carb and eliminate fructose but keep some healthy complex carbs in their diets. Seriously ill patients may benefit more from full ketosis. In any case, he often reports patients are able to reduce or sometimes eliminate medications on this diet which helps when they have trouble with the side effect profiles.
  - willhinsa 4y ago
    This episode, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjEFo3a1AnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjEFo3a1AnI Dr. Chris Palmer: Diet & Nutrition for Mental Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #99 > My guest this episode is Chris Palmer, M.D., a board-certified psychiatrist and assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He explains the important connection between nutrition, metabolism and mental health and his pioneering work using the ketogenic diet to successfully treat patients with various mental illnesses, including depression and schizophrenia. Dr. Palmer explains how the ketogenic diet is an evidenced-based treatment for epilepsy, mimics the fasted state and can offset the cognitive decline in Alzheimer’s. He describes the key roles of mitochondria in mental health, how certain conditions likely arise from mitochondrial dysfunction, and how low-carbohydrate diets increase mitochondrial turnover to improve mental health. He also explains how low-carbohydrate diets positively impact the gut microbiome and weight loss, important risk factors for mitochondrial health such as marijuana and alcohol, and the best way to increase circulating ketones depending on individual needs. We also cover how a ketogenic diet impacts mood, sleep, and fertility. Dr. Palmer’s work stands as a revolutionary approach to mental health and disease that, given the prevalence of mental health challenges, should be of interest to people of all backgrounds and ages.
    - FearlessNebula 4y ago
      Yep:)
- adave 4y ago
  Low carb diet helps, so do others based on the person. Intermittent fasting + exercise + vitamins helps everyone no matter what diet.
tdeck 4y ago
All of these links are about autism, not ADHD. Am I missing something?
- dchristian 4y ago
  Autism is a wide spectrum. Some would consider ADHD part if it. If nothing else, there is lots of overlap.
  - sheepscreek 4y ago
    I have both and I’ve often thought the same. There are so many symptoms in one that are synonymous with the other. Asperger’s is just a tad bit more on the socially awkward side: inability to understand social cues being a big one. I learned to fake it and it took me a long time to develop genuine empathy in situations demanding raw emotion. I’m still awkward sometimes - unsure of what the socially acceptable response is in a situation. This is in sharp contrast to my spouse who is also ADHD. She is more easily distracted and has higher dysfunction. Yet, she is socially more aware and talking to people is second nature to her.
    - rqmedes 4y ago
      I have the social awkward side with the same inability to understand social cues, after many decades I can fake it, but still come across as odd or strange. I guess its the uncanny valley effect. The emotions and empathy is however the opposite, its so strong and raw I have to try and shut it down as its overwhelming.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  It's pretty common in discussions about Autism to talk about ADHD due to strong comorbidity in that direction.
jasonhansel 4y ago
OP didn't ask for advice about how to treat their condition. Presumably they prefer to hear that from their doctor, rather than from every stranger they mention their diagnosis to.
- bootloop 4y ago
  If the quality of doctors follows the same distribution as that one of SW engineers, taking advice of a stranger might have a similar use as looking for answers on stack overflow. After all, they are all self-taught..
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    > If the quality of doctors follows the same distribution as that one of SW engineers How could you possibly think that it does, considering the entire ocean of difference between their education and training???
    - bootloop 4y ago
      Does that have much of an impact on distribution? I don't think so. You still gonna have ones which are very good at their job, some are average and the rest is part of the long tail. Edit: Also in context of the conversation above, what I wanted to suggest is that that information can still be very valuable to whoever reads it. Even if it comes from someone who is not a doctor.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        It absolutely does narrow the distribution substantially.
cactusplant7374 4y ago
What makes you think OP needs advice for ADHD treatment? He was diagnosed by a mental health professional. He may be taking medications that work quite well in the right environment.
- yalestar 4y ago
  What makes you think OP is a he?
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  Why do you assume this advice will make the OP abandon whatever they're doing now and jump to try it? There are other people suffering from ADHD reading this thread. Some of us appreciate exchange of advice as more avenues to explore - for example, because current treatment regimen (medication and/or otherwise) is working well, and so not worth the risk of messing with it, but could use some addition to address remaining problems. There is no perfect cure for this, there's only stacking person-specific partial solutions until hopefully reaching diminishing returns.
joshu 4y ago
Also helps with kidney stones. Eugh
SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
Please don't give advice like this on the Internet; you are not a qualified physician, you do not know what this person's life actually is, what medicines they're currently taking, what allergies they have, etc. You could literally kill someone with the wrong "benign" advice at the wrong time. Turning off Slack won't kill anyone (probably) but suggesting a diet or medication very well could. Just don't do it.
- rocqua 4y ago
  A suggestion to look into something, with links to start the research, on a forum like this. Totally fine. People can do their own research on this forum, if someone is on special meds, they are smart enough to check with doctor before implementing something weird. Besides, a dietary change is going to have slow effects, plenty of time for correcting mistakes.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    It's not "totally fine" it's wildly irresponsible and dangerous, and frankly should be banned.
    - 1123581321 4y ago
      I was glad that he shared what helped him, and after reading your plea to prevent people from accessing this information, doubly so. You should especially be ashamed for trying to keep people struggling with mental health issues in that state.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        Talk to a medical professional before engaging in any change to your diet or medication, especially if you have mental health issues. This kind of thing is how you spiral out of control, I've seen it dozens of times. You and anyone else struggling need to find QUALIFIED people to help you, not random Internet people. Your life literally depends on doing what I'm saying here, not in experimenting with fad diets and snake oil medications.

_8j50 4y ago

Damn it, they have tea on that list of oxalates. Adderal to the rescue!

loxias 4y ago

Interesting links, thanks! (in case it helps anyone else...) About half a year ago I discovered that a brutally low carb diet -- leading to being in ketosis -- drastically helped my ADHD as well as other mental health things I've struggled with for my entire life. I wish I knew earlier!

dchristian 4y ago
Two things that might also work, but be easier. Supplement MCT oil. This turns into keytones in the body. See The Complete Book of Ketones by Mary Newport for all the science. She's got into it for Alzheimers, but the applicability is wider than that. Go gluten-free and casein-free. That's eliminating wheat and dairy in your diet. Both of these turn into a form of morphine in the body. Look up glutomorphine and casomorphine. A slightly easier diet to stick to than keto. This cured my aspergers.
- loxias 4y ago
  Cool. Thanks! Already using MCT oil in lots of cooking :) Had no idea about dairy... interesting, I eat a lot of high fat cheese. Thanks for the references, I'll certainly read more.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  >Go gluten-free and casein-free. That's eliminating wheat and dairy in your diet. Both of these turn into a form of morphine in the body. Look up glutomorphine and casomorphine. A slightly easier diet to stick to than keto. This cured my aspergers. This cure for Autism is broadly related to the leaky gut hypothesis of autism, rather infamously propagated by Andrew Wakefield in the 90s more generally and Jenny McCarthy more specifically went after gluten/casein in the 2000s. PETA made an infamous ad saying that milk causes Autism [1] because milk has Casein. This is to say that enough noise got made about this specific claim it got researched a bit. Generally this diet has specifically been studied for autism treatment and the efficence of it's efficacy is very lacking for me [2][3] This all being said, this doesn't necessarily mean that nobody can benefit from a casein or gluten free diet, there's simply insufficient evidence to say that people who avoid milk and bagels are autistic less often/less autistic. [1] https://www.dairyreporter.com/var/wrbm_gb_food_pharma/storage/images/publications/food-beverage-nutrition/dairyreporter.com/article/2014/06/02/ndc-slams-science-behind-resurfaced-peta-got-autism-campaign/1844207-6-eng-GB/NDC-slams-science-behind-resurfaced-PETA-Got-Autism-campaign.jpg https://www.dairyreporter.com/var/wrbm_gb_food_pharma/storag... [2] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-019-04266-9 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10803-019-04266-9 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651765/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7651765/
  - boplicity 4y ago
    The problem with those studies is that a Gluten free or a gluten and dairy free diet is not enough to actually treat "leaky gut" or similar issues. It's a bit like saying you can fix an ecosystem by removing two invasive species from the environment. Sure, it might work, but it's such an oversimplification that the results will appear random, or, "inconclusive." Studying diets is notoriously difficult, and rarely done in a helpful way. Everybody has a different internal ecosystem -- as well as different dietary stimulus, even if they're following the same diet. This makes it incredibly difficult to draw broad conclusions based on controlling just one or two dietary factors. This is rather unfortunate -- because the right dietary treatments can be truly transformative for many people, for a variety of conditions. However, because of the difficulty of proving this scientifically, such treatments are ignored by the medical community, leaving patients to figure this avenue of treatment out on their own. The answer, in my opinion, is massive funding -- the kind of funding that can compete with billion dollar drugs (such as Humira). However, that's really not going to happen. Oh well. Sorry for the rant!
- k__ 4y ago
  I had the impression that the gluten/casein morphin thesis has been debunked.
  - dchristian 4y ago
    A reference would be helpful :-) Gluten and dairy are in almost all packaged foods. They drive cravability in a big way. So I'm guessing any "debunking" was funded by someone making money from this. There are a few people who are immune to the effect. You can pick them out because they either dislike or simply don't care for cheese (which is mostly casein).
LocalPCGuy 4y ago
I don't think I actually put this together until I read your comment. My actual diagnosis came just after I went off keto after having been doing it pretty steadily for about 3 years. I wonder now if the reason I noticed the symptoms of lack of focus more prior to seeking help and my diagnosis now was because it was better controlled while I was on keto and in ketosis. I know looking back I still had symptoms. I can remember days during those 3 years just sitting in the office and realizing I had not gotten a single thing actually done and it was mid-afternoon already. But also had stretches of incredible productivity also. Thanks for the prompt - been considering going back on keto, one of the reasons I went off is the mixed scientific evidence for its efficacy over other diets (not specifically for weight loss, just diet in the context of "way of eating") and some warnings about the lack of long-term study data because it's so hard for individuals to stay on long term. But this gives me another data point to consider and something to watch if I do try it again.
- boplicity 4y ago
  My random opinion: It's best to go on Keto intermittently; say 2 month on, 2 months off, or similar variation. I would be hesitant to be on it permanently, but doing it off and on feels safer to me. One of the nice things, for me, in terms of having been on Keto occassionally, if that it's given me the ability to go for extended periods without needing to eat. I don't crash, in terms of blood sugar, the way I used to. Even when I'm not eating super low carb.
  - kennedywm 4y ago
    Ketogenic diets likely increase insulin sensitivity, which may explain your experience.
k__ 4y ago
I did keto 3 weeks ago. After 3 days of it, I felt very focused and got done a bunch of stuff I was procrastinating for months. I thought this was a coincidence.
FearlessNebula 4y ago
Andrew Huberman recently had a Harvard educated psychiatrist on the podcast. This psychiatrist specialized in treatment resistant mental health conditions. He was trying to help a patient lose weight and inadvertently found it helped their psychiatric symptoms as well. Fast forward 5 years and he had written a book, and the tl;dr is that he has seen many patients improve their conditions be going low / no carb. For patients with less extreme disease they can often get by with low carb and eliminate fructose but keep some healthy complex carbs in their diets. Seriously ill patients may benefit more from full ketosis. In any case, he often reports patients are able to reduce or sometimes eliminate medications on this diet which helps when they have trouble with the side effect profiles.
- willhinsa 4y ago
  This episode, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjEFo3a1AnI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjEFo3a1AnI Dr. Chris Palmer: Diet & Nutrition for Mental Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #99 > My guest this episode is Chris Palmer, M.D., a board-certified psychiatrist and assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. He explains the important connection between nutrition, metabolism and mental health and his pioneering work using the ketogenic diet to successfully treat patients with various mental illnesses, including depression and schizophrenia. Dr. Palmer explains how the ketogenic diet is an evidenced-based treatment for epilepsy, mimics the fasted state and can offset the cognitive decline in Alzheimer’s. He describes the key roles of mitochondria in mental health, how certain conditions likely arise from mitochondrial dysfunction, and how low-carbohydrate diets increase mitochondrial turnover to improve mental health. He also explains how low-carbohydrate diets positively impact the gut microbiome and weight loss, important risk factors for mitochondrial health such as marijuana and alcohol, and the best way to increase circulating ketones depending on individual needs. We also cover how a ketogenic diet impacts mood, sleep, and fertility. Dr. Palmer’s work stands as a revolutionary approach to mental health and disease that, given the prevalence of mental health challenges, should be of interest to people of all backgrounds and ages.
  - FearlessNebula 4y ago
    Yep:)
adave 4y ago
Low carb diet helps, so do others based on the person. Intermittent fasting + exercise + vitamins helps everyone no matter what diet.

tdeck 4y ago

All of these links are about autism, not ADHD. Am I missing something?

dchristian 4y ago
Autism is a wide spectrum. Some would consider ADHD part if it. If nothing else, there is lots of overlap.
- sheepscreek 4y ago
  I have both and I’ve often thought the same. There are so many symptoms in one that are synonymous with the other. Asperger’s is just a tad bit more on the socially awkward side: inability to understand social cues being a big one. I learned to fake it and it took me a long time to develop genuine empathy in situations demanding raw emotion. I’m still awkward sometimes - unsure of what the socially acceptable response is in a situation. This is in sharp contrast to my spouse who is also ADHD. She is more easily distracted and has higher dysfunction. Yet, she is socially more aware and talking to people is second nature to her.
  - rqmedes 4y ago
    I have the social awkward side with the same inability to understand social cues, after many decades I can fake it, but still come across as odd or strange. I guess its the uncanny valley effect. The emotions and empathy is however the opposite, its so strong and raw I have to try and shut it down as its overwhelming.
faeriechangling 4y ago
It's pretty common in discussions about Autism to talk about ADHD due to strong comorbidity in that direction.

jasonhansel 4y ago

OP didn't ask for advice about how to treat their condition. Presumably they prefer to hear that from their doctor, rather than from every stranger they mention their diagnosis to.

bootloop 4y ago
If the quality of doctors follows the same distribution as that one of SW engineers, taking advice of a stranger might have a similar use as looking for answers on stack overflow. After all, they are all self-taught..
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  > If the quality of doctors follows the same distribution as that one of SW engineers How could you possibly think that it does, considering the entire ocean of difference between their education and training???
  - bootloop 4y ago
    Does that have much of an impact on distribution? I don't think so. You still gonna have ones which are very good at their job, some are average and the rest is part of the long tail. Edit: Also in context of the conversation above, what I wanted to suggest is that that information can still be very valuable to whoever reads it. Even if it comes from someone who is not a doctor.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      It absolutely does narrow the distribution substantially.

cactusplant7374 4y ago

What makes you think OP needs advice for ADHD treatment? He was diagnosed by a mental health professional. He may be taking medications that work quite well in the right environment.

yalestar 4y ago
What makes you think OP is a he?
TeMPOraL 4y ago
Why do you assume this advice will make the OP abandon whatever they're doing now and jump to try it? There are other people suffering from ADHD reading this thread. Some of us appreciate exchange of advice as more avenues to explore - for example, because current treatment regimen (medication and/or otherwise) is working well, and so not worth the risk of messing with it, but could use some addition to address remaining problems. There is no perfect cure for this, there's only stacking person-specific partial solutions until hopefully reaching diminishing returns.

joshu 4y ago

Also helps with kidney stones. Eugh

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

Please don't give advice like this on the Internet; you are not a qualified physician, you do not know what this person's life actually is, what medicines they're currently taking, what allergies they have, etc. You could literally kill someone with the wrong "benign" advice at the wrong time. Turning off Slack won't kill anyone (probably) but suggesting a diet or medication very well could. Just don't do it.

rocqua 4y ago
A suggestion to look into something, with links to start the research, on a forum like this. Totally fine. People can do their own research on this forum, if someone is on special meds, they are smart enough to check with doctor before implementing something weird. Besides, a dietary change is going to have slow effects, plenty of time for correcting mistakes.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  It's not "totally fine" it's wildly irresponsible and dangerous, and frankly should be banned.
  - 1123581321 4y ago
    I was glad that he shared what helped him, and after reading your plea to prevent people from accessing this information, doubly so. You should especially be ashamed for trying to keep people struggling with mental health issues in that state.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      Talk to a medical professional before engaging in any change to your diet or medication, especially if you have mental health issues. This kind of thing is how you spiral out of control, I've seen it dozens of times. You and anyone else struggling need to find QUALIFIED people to help you, not random Internet people. Your life literally depends on doing what I'm saying here, not in experimenting with fad diets and snake oil medications.