4 ms·

It’s sad you get downvoted. Mask wearing is incredibly dehumanizing in my opinion. It is a symbol of fear and control. It never ever should never have been mand

It’s sad you get downvoted. Mask wearing is incredibly dehumanizing in my opinion. It is a symbol of fear and control. It never ever should never have been mandated, only recommended.

throwaway290 4y ago
Think about it. It's only a symbol of control and dehumanizing if you don't want to do it. Is waiting at a red light or wearing clothes in public dehumanizing or a symbol of control? If not then what makes masks different? And you don't want to do it because you can't see every X person who caught the virus dropping dead in front of you, since all negative consequences happen out of sight and come back at you with statistics months later you simply can't bring yourself to care, that's all.
- aakresearch 4y ago
  Of course I don't want it. Why would I? It is like demands for intercourse from random strangers, claiming you're immoral for not caring about "benefits" for THEM. Mask IS dehumanizing, and IS a symbol of control, just like any forced sexual activity. Why breathing and face are suddenly considered less sacred than nether zone? "What makes it different", from masks, or pants, or waiting the red light? If consensual sex between lovers is a wonderful and most natural experience ever, with all soothing and healing aspects, why it is not appropriate to make it mandatory under some circumstances? Even more, why breaching sexual consent even in minor way is considered worse-than-murder in some cultures? Wearing mask is as revolting as sex against one's natural "orientation". If someone thinks this is unreasonable and one should "get help" to "fix" it, I remind them that they may be fighting against strongly held "identity" belief. "Conversion therapy" is being declared evil, for some valid reasons. And I won't even say how I feel about forced, mandatory mask wearing.
Diederich 4y ago
> It is a symbol of fear and control. Perhaps to some. That feeling is probably largely driven by one's overall outlook. We started masking before any of the mandates because it just made sense to do so, to us at least. > It never ever should never have been mandated, only recommended. That's a hard question in my opinion. I naturally tend toward letting people do what they want unless they're clearly hurting others. Others have argued that masking does unambiguously reduce harm to others, but I don't find it so clear cut. I'm personally less uncomfortable with mask mandates than the widespread shutdowns. Those shutdowns caused massive harm to people. Masking? Not so much. Note I'm not quite willing, even now, to fully support mask mandates, now or previously. I see both sides of the issue. > It’s sad you get downvoted. Agreed, it is sad that opposing, perhaps uncomfortable viewpoints get pushed down.
ipaddr 4y ago
Mask wearing is wonderful and freeing. More privacy in public is a great side effect.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Yes, once you get used to it it's dehumanizing having to take it off. 100% it's someone wants to ID you for the camera.
jeffbee 4y ago
Are pants and shirts also symbols of fear and control?
- timr 4y ago
  If you're forced to wear them on your face, yes. Covering your face, as a primate, is not a natural thing to do. Our brains have huge areas dedicated to recognition of subtle differences in facial features. We're literally wired for facial recognition. More than almost any other feature of our bodies, our faces define us as individuals. Assuming that obscuring the face has zero cost is clearly wrong. I honestly can't believe I have to say this out loud.
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    You still need to clarify how having to wear pants and shirts is not an instance of control over you. Because it is, and you only don't mind that control because you agree that you should do it. Use the same principle here. Btw idk about others but I wear a mask indoors with strangers, like in public transport or shops. I get to see all the faces I want to see and show mine outdoors or when video calling or if they are close friends or cohabitants. Wearing a mask in public has only one cost for healthy people: a dirty mask can make you sick so you must have a clean mask, and that costs either money or time spent washing (and chance of washing it wrong)
  - ABCLAW 4y ago
    >Covering your face, as a primate, is not a natural thing to do. 1) Neither is wearing pants or a shirt. 2) Something being 'natural' doesn't make it right. >Assuming that obscuring the face has zero cost is clearly wrong. It doesn't need to have zero cost in order to be the correct thing to do. The question is whether or not the trade-off is worthwhile. Let's saying masking always under all conditions is too much of an imposition, are there restrictions we can place that make the trade-off better? For instance: Is masking in high density communal areas during respiratory disease seasons with an X drop in disease propagation worth not seeing people's faces in that setting for that time period. To extrapolate this back to the pants/shirt distinction; human life would end in a generation if we weren't ever able to take off our pants and shirt as we would never have sex again, but the intolerability of that restriction doesn't make it socially accepted for me to rub my bare ass onto a bus seat. We can't have a discussion about how best to adopt masks, pants, or shirts as a technology if the only way they'll be accepted is if they're always a pure benefit in any situation.
eloff 4y ago
Medical masks are not a symbol of anything. They’re a legitimate way to lower the risk of spreading germs from your own mouth and nose. They’re also marginally useful at keeping germs out. The fact that they got politicized in the USA is more a symbol of the problems with the USA than anything else.
dfxm12 4y ago
It is a symbol of fear and control. Why do you think this? I see someone wearing a mask and I see someone with enough respect for their fellow man that they don't want to get them sick. That's not fear or control, that's compassion. I don't think compassion is uniquely human, but it still is humanizing.
diag 4y ago
How is it a symbol of fear? Masks for infection control have been used since the late 1800s. It's purely practical. Maybe a little fear would be healthy for some people if it makes them act in a socially integrated manner. Anybody who's had covid probably doesn't want to get it again.
fullmoon 4y ago
Culturally? That would be interesting to think through. I can be sold on the idea that covering one face (by any means) removes a lot of communication and social clues that are inherently human. But control?
D13Fd 4y ago
How do you feel about having to wear a seatbelt?

It’s sad you get downvoted. Mask wearing is incredibly dehumanizing in my opinion. It is a symbol of fear and control. It never ever should never have been mandated, only recommended.

throwaway290 4y ago

Think about it. It's only a symbol of control and dehumanizing if you don't want to do it. Is waiting at a red light or wearing clothes in public dehumanizing or a symbol of control? If not then what makes masks different? And you don't want to do it because you can't see every X person who caught the virus dropping dead in front of you, since all negative consequences happen out of sight and come back at you with statistics months later you simply can't bring yourself to care, that's all.

aakresearch 4y ago
Of course I don't want it. Why would I? It is like demands for intercourse from random strangers, claiming you're immoral for not caring about "benefits" for THEM. Mask IS dehumanizing, and IS a symbol of control, just like any forced sexual activity. Why breathing and face are suddenly considered less sacred than nether zone? "What makes it different", from masks, or pants, or waiting the red light? If consensual sex between lovers is a wonderful and most natural experience ever, with all soothing and healing aspects, why it is not appropriate to make it mandatory under some circumstances? Even more, why breaching sexual consent even in minor way is considered worse-than-murder in some cultures? Wearing mask is as revolting as sex against one's natural "orientation". If someone thinks this is unreasonable and one should "get help" to "fix" it, I remind them that they may be fighting against strongly held "identity" belief. "Conversion therapy" is being declared evil, for some valid reasons. And I won't even say how I feel about forced, mandatory mask wearing.

Diederich 4y ago

> It is a symbol of fear and control. Perhaps to some. That feeling is probably largely driven by one's overall outlook. We started masking before any of the mandates because it just made sense to do so, to us at least. > It never ever should never have been mandated, only recommended. That's a hard question in my opinion. I naturally tend toward letting people do what they want unless they're clearly hurting others. Others have argued that masking does unambiguously reduce harm to others, but I don't find it so clear cut. I'm personally less uncomfortable with mask mandates than the widespread shutdowns. Those shutdowns caused massive harm to people. Masking? Not so much. Note I'm not quite willing, even now, to fully support mask mandates, now or previously. I see both sides of the issue. > It’s sad you get downvoted. Agreed, it is sad that opposing, perhaps uncomfortable viewpoints get pushed down.

ipaddr 4y ago

Mask wearing is wonderful and freeing. More privacy in public is a great side effect.

throwaway290 4y ago
Yes, once you get used to it it's dehumanizing having to take it off. 100% it's someone wants to ID you for the camera.

jeffbee 4y ago

Are pants and shirts also symbols of fear and control?

timr 4y ago
If you're forced to wear them on your face, yes. Covering your face, as a primate, is not a natural thing to do. Our brains have huge areas dedicated to recognition of subtle differences in facial features. We're literally wired for facial recognition. More than almost any other feature of our bodies, our faces define us as individuals. Assuming that obscuring the face has zero cost is clearly wrong. I honestly can't believe I have to say this out loud.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  You still need to clarify how having to wear pants and shirts is not an instance of control over you. Because it is, and you only don't mind that control because you agree that you should do it. Use the same principle here. Btw idk about others but I wear a mask indoors with strangers, like in public transport or shops. I get to see all the faces I want to see and show mine outdoors or when video calling or if they are close friends or cohabitants. Wearing a mask in public has only one cost for healthy people: a dirty mask can make you sick so you must have a clean mask, and that costs either money or time spent washing (and chance of washing it wrong)
- ABCLAW 4y ago
  >Covering your face, as a primate, is not a natural thing to do. 1) Neither is wearing pants or a shirt. 2) Something being 'natural' doesn't make it right. >Assuming that obscuring the face has zero cost is clearly wrong. It doesn't need to have zero cost in order to be the correct thing to do. The question is whether or not the trade-off is worthwhile. Let's saying masking always under all conditions is too much of an imposition, are there restrictions we can place that make the trade-off better? For instance: Is masking in high density communal areas during respiratory disease seasons with an X drop in disease propagation worth not seeing people's faces in that setting for that time period. To extrapolate this back to the pants/shirt distinction; human life would end in a generation if we weren't ever able to take off our pants and shirt as we would never have sex again, but the intolerability of that restriction doesn't make it socially accepted for me to rub my bare ass onto a bus seat. We can't have a discussion about how best to adopt masks, pants, or shirts as a technology if the only way they'll be accepted is if they're always a pure benefit in any situation.

eloff 4y ago

Medical masks are not a symbol of anything. They’re a legitimate way to lower the risk of spreading germs from your own mouth and nose. They’re also marginally useful at keeping germs out. The fact that they got politicized in the USA is more a symbol of the problems with the USA than anything else.

dfxm12 4y ago

It is a symbol of fear and control. Why do you think this? I see someone wearing a mask and I see someone with enough respect for their fellow man that they don't want to get them sick. That's not fear or control, that's compassion. I don't think compassion is uniquely human, but it still is humanizing.

diag 4y ago

How is it a symbol of fear? Masks for infection control have been used since the late 1800s. It's purely practical. Maybe a little fear would be healthy for some people if it makes them act in a socially integrated manner. Anybody who's had covid probably doesn't want to get it again.

fullmoon 4y ago

Culturally? That would be interesting to think through. I can be sold on the idea that covering one face (by any means) removes a lot of communication and social clues that are inherently human. But control?

D13Fd 4y ago

How do you feel about having to wear a seatbelt?