4 ms·

here's the actual brands and products: https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/ https://www.consumerr

by zzzeek 4y ago

here's the actual brands and products: https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-cadmium-in-dark-chocolate-a8480295550/ https://www.consumerreports.org/health/food-safety/lead-and-... or better: https://www.asyousow.org/environmental-health/toxic-enforcement/toxic-chocolate https://www.asyousow.org/environmental-health/toxic-enforcem... I go through the Equal Exchange 80% dark product about one bar every few weeks so I will be researching cadmium a bit (later) So after some research on cadmium and the specific data California has on it (https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/chemicals/cadmium https://oehha.ca.gov/proposition-65/chemicals/cadmium), I think my general take on the Equal Exchange chocolate I eat quite a lot of is that the saturated fat (15g) is still orders of magnitude more dangerous than the cadmium. Interestingly, the product itself seems much less appealing to me knowing it has this trace level of cadmium that will likely not affect me in any way, vs. the saturated fat that I already knew contributes towards directly life-threatening LDL cholesterol.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
_yb2s 4y ago
Saturated fat increases LDL by increasing the particle size, whereas it seems to be increases in particle number that are associated with increased cardiovascular risk. This is likely why studies fail to find any real world increase in risk, and the saturated fat heart disease theory, while still under debate, is mostly out of favor nowadays.
- Georgelemental 4y ago
  Yes, saturated fat is unjustly maligned. And from an evolutionary perspective, it doesn't make sense that it would be so harmful; pre-agricultural diets had lots of saturated fat so human metabolisms should have evolved to handle it well.
  - _yb2s 4y ago
    Also, when our bodies store calories (de novo lipogenesis), other forms of calories are converted to saturated fats. It doesn't make sense that our bodies main calorie store would be basically 'poison.' Is starch poisonous to a potato?
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    Evolutionary arguments here don't make much sense - the vast majority of human history we had average lifespans on the order of 25 or 30 years. If the negative effects of something (like heart disease) typically fail to manifest within that window there is no selection mechanism by which this kind of eating has an effect on long-term evolution of the species.
    - robcohen 4y ago
      I thought that was only true if you included infant deaths. I haven’t researched it but that’s what I as a layman thought.
    - Georgelemental 4y ago
      You are off by a factor of 2. If you exclude deaths in early childhood people regularly made it to their 60s
      - idiotsecant 4y ago
        Hmm, good call. Your comment about longer lifespans having an indirect impact on the spread of personal genetic material is also insightful. Glad to be corrected!
      - Swizec 4y ago
        But if everyone is done having kids by their mid 30's, the increase in heart disease risk in their 50's still wouldn't show up as an evolutionary pressure. Especially when you consider humans are tribal animals and parental survival is not critical to offspring survival as long as the tribe keeps going.
- Rury 4y ago
  I've heard that, for the most part, small dense LDL is what is mostly found in cardiovascular disease.
- khiqxj 4y ago
  well chocolate is high in calories and much more so when you buy a product that adds a bunch of sugar. this is relevant because people who eat a lot of chocolate have bad health but still probably dont have any lead problems aside from subtle, low dose related ones, which will be hard to distinguish from having unhealthy calory intake
  - _yb2s 4y ago
    Most "chocolate" products really have little, if any chocolate. Google says Hershey's milk chocolate is only 11% actual cacao. Still, plenty of people eat 85-100% cacao dark chocolate, or even savory chocolate foods like Mole in Mexican food, which I think should be considered separately from, e.g. chocolate flavored candy. Interestingly, cacao is one of the best dietary sources of copper, and it seems plausible that getting more copper this way would overall reduce risk of cardiovascular disease [1-3]. [1] https://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/11/chocolate-what-is-the-optimal-dose/ [2] https://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/ [3] https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/204871/dark-chocolate-cuts-heart-deaths-australian-study
    - khiqxj 4y ago
      you get enough copper (to meet national recommendations) just by eating anything, no need to seek it out. what i want to know is how to correctly interpret all these studies that claim some food substantially increases health outlooks. while those are spam websites (buy this, buy that, amazonamazonamazonamazonamazon), its still possible for them to be correct
      - _yb2s 4y ago
        If you follow those links deeper, there is substantial reduction in cardiovascular disease risk with higher copper intake from supplementation, if it is balanced with zinc intake. National recommendations just prevent acute deficiency symptoms and don't address chronic illness risk. The perfect health diet website isn't trying to sell you supplements but just make it easier to find what they buy for themselves personally, it's a orphaned health blog by a scientist couple I know personally that make their money elsewhere as researchers- they haven't even updated the blog in ~4 years. They wrote a very detailed nutrition book where they evaluate the risk/benefits of each common nutrient backed up by a deep literature review- basically redoing what the FDA did for the recommendations you cite, but with newer data. The other one is just a pop news summary of an actual journal article.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
You might want to look up more recent research on saturated fat. there's still no doubt that hydrolyzed fats are horrible for you though.
- zzzeek 4y ago
  my cholesterol goes up proportionally to saturated fat intake, the link between saturated fat and LDL cholesterol (and LDL cholesterol and heart disease) is quite clear despite a huge desire from the public for there to be other "studies" that somehow make it OK to down any amount of dairy. I spent many years hoping for such studies all the while my 300-level cholesterol was lining my arteries with plaque until I finally had to get on statins (not a vegan here).
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
    I guess if it's anecdote vs anecdote, then my cholesterol numbers were bad, as well as other indicators for prediabetes until I switched to a keto diet and dropped 60lbs. Now everything is perfectly normal in my labs and pretty much only watch hydrolyzed/trans fats in my diet, which has moved from keto to "lower carb" and not as strict as strict keto. Saturated fats are fine for me. So, congrats on your health and on mine.
    - zzzeek 4y ago
      I could have just become vegan which for me would have been easier than keto. I reduced carbs enough to lose 15 pounds (I am only 165) and the numbers didn't budge at all, so that wasn't going to work. Living under a keto regime is not realistic for me.
tigerlily 4y ago
Great thanks for the link, I wonder if it would be possible to filter by provenance. I imagine some places produce cacao containing more Cd and Pb than other places?

by zzzeek 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

_yb2s 4y ago

Saturated fat increases LDL by increasing the particle size, whereas it seems to be increases in particle number that are associated with increased cardiovascular risk. This is likely why studies fail to find any real world increase in risk, and the saturated fat heart disease theory, while still under debate, is mostly out of favor nowadays.

Georgelemental 4y ago
Yes, saturated fat is unjustly maligned. And from an evolutionary perspective, it doesn't make sense that it would be so harmful; pre-agricultural diets had lots of saturated fat so human metabolisms should have evolved to handle it well.
- _yb2s 4y ago
  Also, when our bodies store calories (de novo lipogenesis), other forms of calories are converted to saturated fats. It doesn't make sense that our bodies main calorie store would be basically 'poison.' Is starch poisonous to a potato?
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Evolutionary arguments here don't make much sense - the vast majority of human history we had average lifespans on the order of 25 or 30 years. If the negative effects of something (like heart disease) typically fail to manifest within that window there is no selection mechanism by which this kind of eating has an effect on long-term evolution of the species.
  - robcohen 4y ago
    I thought that was only true if you included infant deaths. I haven’t researched it but that’s what I as a layman thought.
  - Georgelemental 4y ago
    You are off by a factor of 2. If you exclude deaths in early childhood people regularly made it to their 60s
    - idiotsecant 4y ago
      Hmm, good call. Your comment about longer lifespans having an indirect impact on the spread of personal genetic material is also insightful. Glad to be corrected!
    - Swizec 4y ago
      But if everyone is done having kids by their mid 30's, the increase in heart disease risk in their 50's still wouldn't show up as an evolutionary pressure. Especially when you consider humans are tribal animals and parental survival is not critical to offspring survival as long as the tribe keeps going.
Rury 4y ago
I've heard that, for the most part, small dense LDL is what is mostly found in cardiovascular disease.
khiqxj 4y ago
well chocolate is high in calories and much more so when you buy a product that adds a bunch of sugar. this is relevant because people who eat a lot of chocolate have bad health but still probably dont have any lead problems aside from subtle, low dose related ones, which will be hard to distinguish from having unhealthy calory intake
- _yb2s 4y ago
  Most "chocolate" products really have little, if any chocolate. Google says Hershey's milk chocolate is only 11% actual cacao. Still, plenty of people eat 85-100% cacao dark chocolate, or even savory chocolate foods like Mole in Mexican food, which I think should be considered separately from, e.g. chocolate flavored candy. Interestingly, cacao is one of the best dietary sources of copper, and it seems plausible that getting more copper this way would overall reduce risk of cardiovascular disease [1-3]. [1] https://perfecthealthdiet.com/2012/11/chocolate-what-is-the-optimal-dose/ [2] https://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/ [3] https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/204871/dark-chocolate-cuts-heart-deaths-australian-study
  - khiqxj 4y ago
    you get enough copper (to meet national recommendations) just by eating anything, no need to seek it out. what i want to know is how to correctly interpret all these studies that claim some food substantially increases health outlooks. while those are spam websites (buy this, buy that, amazonamazonamazonamazonamazon), its still possible for them to be correct
    - _yb2s 4y ago
      If you follow those links deeper, there is substantial reduction in cardiovascular disease risk with higher copper intake from supplementation, if it is balanced with zinc intake. National recommendations just prevent acute deficiency symptoms and don't address chronic illness risk. The perfect health diet website isn't trying to sell you supplements but just make it easier to find what they buy for themselves personally, it's a orphaned health blog by a scientist couple I know personally that make their money elsewhere as researchers- they haven't even updated the blog in ~4 years. They wrote a very detailed nutrition book where they evaluate the risk/benefits of each common nutrient backed up by a deep literature review- basically redoing what the FDA did for the recommendations you cite, but with newer data. The other one is just a pop news summary of an actual journal article.

stjohnswarts 4y ago

You might want to look up more recent research on saturated fat. there's still no doubt that hydrolyzed fats are horrible for you though.

zzzeek 4y ago
my cholesterol goes up proportionally to saturated fat intake, the link between saturated fat and LDL cholesterol (and LDL cholesterol and heart disease) is quite clear despite a huge desire from the public for there to be other "studies" that somehow make it OK to down any amount of dairy. I spent many years hoping for such studies all the while my 300-level cholesterol was lining my arteries with plaque until I finally had to get on statins (not a vegan here).
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  I guess if it's anecdote vs anecdote, then my cholesterol numbers were bad, as well as other indicators for prediabetes until I switched to a keto diet and dropped 60lbs. Now everything is perfectly normal in my labs and pretty much only watch hydrolyzed/trans fats in my diet, which has moved from keto to "lower carb" and not as strict as strict keto. Saturated fats are fine for me. So, congrats on your health and on mine.
  - zzzeek 4y ago
    I could have just become vegan which for me would have been easier than keto. I reduced carbs enough to lose 15 pounds (I am only 165) and the numbers didn't budge at all, so that wasn't going to work. Living under a keto regime is not realistic for me.

tigerlily 4y ago

Great thanks for the link, I wonder if it would be possible to filter by provenance. I imagine some places produce cacao containing more Cd and Pb than other places?