4 ms·

The sooner we can fully automate competitive programming away from the standard interview process the sooner things will improve for all software devs, imho.

Jabrov 4y ago
Why is that? Can you explain what is wrong with the current interview process and how that would improve things for devs?
- xwolfi 4y ago
  Maybe they would focus on asking us about test strategy, devops culture, release deadline commitment, quality vs deadline cutoff, business understanding, team integration ability, all the sort of things we actually do 90% of the time.
  - throwawaysleep 4y ago
    Run of the mill devs are not decision makers for the most part on any of this.
    - scottLobster 4y ago
      Uh, yeah they are. If I start a 60 hour (estimated) story the week before the sprint ends, I'm going to have some very pointed questions how thoroughly we want to test this new feature, and perhaps argue that it should be pushed into next sprint. Knowing how to formulate such issues to my management is a very typical part of my job. If you work at a place where devs are just code monkeys who implement the orders from on high with no feedback whatsoever or avenue for pushback... get a better job.
- Deestan 4y ago
  Too many of them are in effect a long-winded quiz for a memorization task. How would you swap two integers without using a temporary variable? Seen it before? Pass. Not seen it before? Fail.
  - kadoban 4y ago
    You can absolutely puzzle out _a_ solution to that problem, it's not just a quiz. It's not even hard, given the context that you know that it's possible to do. Steps, mostly driven by just basically knowing the goal and that there's not many operations that could possibly help: "a" "b" "a+b" "b" "a+b" "-a" "b" "-a" "b" "a" Then once you have that, you can enumerate the downsides to that, look for more efficient and less error-prone ways to proceed.
    - Deestan 4y ago
      I'm sorry. That one uses a hidden temp storage for the intermediate calculations. We were looking for the solution based on XOR which works with only two registers. We wish you luck with your job search elsewhere.
      - kadoban 4y ago
        That's not what someone giving even this poor interview question would answer with. It's also not true. These interview questions are fairly shit, but they're not _that_ shit, and the people giving them are doing their best.
      - hamilton987 4y ago
        [dead]
  - winstonprivacy 4y ago
    What irks me about this question is that it is almost utterly unrelated to any type of development task, save one: pipelining a repeated math equation in a long loop. And even then, I would bet the time it takes to swap two registers (or even L1 cache) using a third would far outperform the three operations needed because of the fact that they are sequential in nature (ie: they cannot be performed simultaneously by even an advanced CPU). In nearly 30 years of diverse coding experience, I've never once encountered a situation where this solution would be useful.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  It has nothing to do with the day to day job. You are just memorizing vast problem sets.
- jayd16 4y ago
  Does not reflect on the job work to regurgitate algorithm answers and it's too easily gamed. A novice that has practiced algorithms will outperform an expert that has not studied recently. That said, its probably more used as a filter for people interested enough in working there to study.
jstx1 4y ago
This seems like a flawed premise. It's an interview, there's nothing to be automated. It's a test, a task that the company wants you to do as a candidate, not a task that they need automated. They don't even need the task done, they aren't using the code you write to solve real world problems, they're using it to assess your suitability for the job. To put it another way - they can already automate solving their leetcode problems by looking up the solution in their database, no need for AI. But that's not the point at all.
- autotune 4y ago
  >They aren't using the code you write to solve real world problems, they're using it to assess your suitability for the job. If they aren't evaluating how the code you write fits into the context of a real world problem, how can they possibly use it to asses your suitability for the job? Using fake code problems to evaluate candidates is the flawed premise here.
  - jstx1 4y ago
    You're changing the topic - whether data structures and algorithms problems are suitable for interviews is separate question. My claim is that if you're using those types of interview questions, an AI model being able to solve them well makes no difference to your interview process because the interview isn't something that you want to automate. Like I said, they were always able to automate solving those problems by doing a database lookup.
    - autotune 4y ago
      I am literally responding directly to what you wrote in the way that you wrote it. My counter claim to your initial point is that candidates will be able to use said AI in competitive programming interviews to fool the interviewer by the interviewee, thereby making competitive programming pointless as an interview tool. It automates it for the interviewee, not the interviewer.
      - jstx1 4y ago

Jabrov 4y ago

Why is that? Can you explain what is wrong with the current interview process and how that would improve things for devs?

xwolfi 4y ago
Maybe they would focus on asking us about test strategy, devops culture, release deadline commitment, quality vs deadline cutoff, business understanding, team integration ability, all the sort of things we actually do 90% of the time.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Run of the mill devs are not decision makers for the most part on any of this.
  - scottLobster 4y ago
    Uh, yeah they are. If I start a 60 hour (estimated) story the week before the sprint ends, I'm going to have some very pointed questions how thoroughly we want to test this new feature, and perhaps argue that it should be pushed into next sprint. Knowing how to formulate such issues to my management is a very typical part of my job. If you work at a place where devs are just code monkeys who implement the orders from on high with no feedback whatsoever or avenue for pushback... get a better job.
Deestan 4y ago
Too many of them are in effect a long-winded quiz for a memorization task. How would you swap two integers without using a temporary variable? Seen it before? Pass. Not seen it before? Fail.
- kadoban 4y ago
  You can absolutely puzzle out _a_ solution to that problem, it's not just a quiz. It's not even hard, given the context that you know that it's possible to do. Steps, mostly driven by just basically knowing the goal and that there's not many operations that could possibly help: "a" "b" "a+b" "b" "a+b" "-a" "b" "-a" "b" "a" Then once you have that, you can enumerate the downsides to that, look for more efficient and less error-prone ways to proceed.
  - Deestan 4y ago
    I'm sorry. That one uses a hidden temp storage for the intermediate calculations. We were looking for the solution based on XOR which works with only two registers. We wish you luck with your job search elsewhere.
    - kadoban 4y ago
      That's not what someone giving even this poor interview question would answer with. It's also not true. These interview questions are fairly shit, but they're not _that_ shit, and the people giving them are doing their best.
    - hamilton987 4y ago
      [dead]
- winstonprivacy 4y ago
  What irks me about this question is that it is almost utterly unrelated to any type of development task, save one: pipelining a repeated math equation in a long loop. And even then, I would bet the time it takes to swap two registers (or even L1 cache) using a third would far outperform the three operations needed because of the fact that they are sequential in nature (ie: they cannot be performed simultaneously by even an advanced CPU). In nearly 30 years of diverse coding experience, I've never once encountered a situation where this solution would be useful.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
It has nothing to do with the day to day job. You are just memorizing vast problem sets.
jayd16 4y ago
Does not reflect on the job work to regurgitate algorithm answers and it's too easily gamed. A novice that has practiced algorithms will outperform an expert that has not studied recently. That said, its probably more used as a filter for people interested enough in working there to study.

jstx1 4y ago

This seems like a flawed premise. It's an interview, there's nothing to be automated. It's a test, a task that the company wants you to do as a candidate, not a task that they need automated. They don't even need the task done, they aren't using the code you write to solve real world problems, they're using it to assess your suitability for the job. To put it another way - they can already automate solving their leetcode problems by looking up the solution in their database, no need for AI. But that's not the point at all.

autotune 4y ago
>They aren't using the code you write to solve real world problems, they're using it to assess your suitability for the job. If they aren't evaluating how the code you write fits into the context of a real world problem, how can they possibly use it to asses your suitability for the job? Using fake code problems to evaluate candidates is the flawed premise here.
- jstx1 4y ago
  You're changing the topic - whether data structures and algorithms problems are suitable for interviews is separate question. My claim is that if you're using those types of interview questions, an AI model being able to solve them well makes no difference to your interview process because the interview isn't something that you want to automate. Like I said, they were always able to automate solving those problems by doing a database lookup.
  - autotune 4y ago
    I am literally responding directly to what you wrote in the way that you wrote it. My counter claim to your initial point is that candidates will be able to use said AI in competitive programming interviews to fool the interviewer by the interviewee, thereby making competitive programming pointless as an interview tool. It automates it for the interviewee, not the interviewer.
    - jstx1 4y ago