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The flight information that twitter account was using is publically available and required by law to BE public. https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zygg/twitter-
by TehCorwiz 4y ago
The flight information that twitter account was using is publically available and required by law to BE public.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zygg/twitter-bans-elon-musk-flight-tracking-account-after-saying-he-wouldnt-for-free-speech https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zygg/twitter-bans-elon-mus...
"Sweeney has been using sites such as ADS-B Exchange to track the movements of private jets blogging to celebrities, tech billionaires, and Russian oligarchs for years now. By law, the movement of these plans is publicly available information. “This account has every right to post jet whereabouts, ADS-B data is public, every aircraft in the world is required to have a transponder, Even AF1 (@AirForceTrack) Twitter policy states data found on other sites is allowed to be shared here as well,” the account’s pinned tweet read before it was banned."
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=a835af
- Eji1700 4y agoThank you. I’m sick of seeing so many people defend this nonsense by portraying it as a safety issue. This issue is public. It’s required to be public. Someone pointing out public info is not a safety issue
- gfodor 4y agoThis is such a ridiculous take. It’s widely considered doxxing if you republish public information that makes it easy to find a person’s actual location. Without getting into the weeds on this specific issue, the idea that any public information being republished on social media can’t have safety consequences is absurd. If, for example, the information about where someone lives is buried on a buggy government website, packaging it up and broadcasting it onto Twitter to millions of people is a very meaningful event that has safety consequences to the person involved.
- Master_Odin 4y agoIt's doxxing if the info was not meant to be public, but was leaked via some source unintentionally. It's not really doxxing if you take info that's broadcast to the public by law and use that. I put out my resume that has my name, address, and phone number on my public website and I wouldn't consider it doxxing if someone uses that info. If Musk doesn't want to get tracked, he can take a regular airplane like other people, or maybe borrow a plane from someone he knows, and not use one that's registered to his business.
- null0pointer 4y ago> It’s doxxing if the info was not meant to be public, but was leaked via some source unintentionally. I’m not sure you’ll find many who agree with you in this definition. The natural followup to “not meant to be public” is “meant by who?” Oftentimes people are doxxed through collation of various public records, kept and published by the government. I’m thinking things like phone books, arrest records, property transfer records, business registration, WHOIS registration, and many more. Then there’s times when the victim themselves didn’t realize they were leaking information. Even seemingly innocuous photos can be used by determined individuals to get a precise location [1]. I realize this falls under “unintentional” by your definition but would it be fair to say the person doxxed themselves in this case? I don’t think so. To me the essence of doxxing is putting together otherwise disparate info into an easily sharable package. Something which raises the profile of the individual datapoints and their relation to each other until finding the victims information is trivial for anyone with a basic search. 1: See GeoWizards fantastic series doing exactly this: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_japiE6QKWqMVC3JbyONau_0CZlDTU5f https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_japiE6QKWqMVC3JbyONau_0...
- nickpp 4y agoIt's incredible the mental gymnastics some people go through to justify behaviors they would find unacceptable if directed to their own person. Bottom line is: there is no justifiable reason to publish real-time location info of somebody against his wishes other than to harm him.
- bjourne 4y agoAren't there public sex offender registries in the US?
- zimpenfish 4y ago> It’s widely considered doxxing if you republish public information that makes it easy to find a person’s actual location. I know where 14 Premiership managers (and could probably have a good guess at ~150 Premiership players) are going to be on Boxing Day, with exact locations for a specific time range. Is that doxxing them?
- mcv 4y agoTechnically, maybe, but it also sounds a lot like a form of doxing. Where people live is not some highly classified secret, but collecting that data about people on a large scale, or posting it online, is not okay. In the same way, posting the whereabouts of someone's personal private plane[0] is not so different from posting their whereabouts when they're using a different form of transportation, and could be considered stalking. [0] It sucks that personal private planes are even a thing, but that's a different issue.
- zimpenfish 4y ago> not so different from posting their whereabouts when they're using a different form of transportation As someone pointed out over in Fedi-land, this would be broad enough to cover sports fixtures because you know where players are going to be (live location) and you know how they're likely going to get there (coach from local hotels if you're a UK footballer).
- mcv 4y agoPresence at a specific public event with an audience specifically to see them, is not the same thing as constantly tracking and publishing someone's whereabouts.
- zimpenfish 4y ago> Presence at a specific public event with an audience specifically to see them But that's not what was said - there was no exception carved out for that.
- Jochim 4y agoThe location of a private plane is also not the same as publishing an individual's whereabouts. The solution to people knowing the location of your private plane is really simple: Don't own a private plane. Most of us are already doing it.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- theteapot 4y agoLater in same article: > Musk has also apparently requested, via the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), that his plane not be tracked on third-party sites like FlightAware ... “This aircraft is on the the FAA blocklist meaning it is not allowed to be displayed to the general public,” a FlightAware spokesperson said in an email to Motherboard. “This is something that all 3rd party trackers do usually follow as a list is sent out every month."
- TehCorwiz 4y agoWell, ADS-B Exchange still has his plane listed as you can see from the second link. So while that sounds like it could have been the case at one point, it does not seem to be the case right now.
- thrulisk 4y agoI assume they are referring to the blocklist described here: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd > ADS-B Out transmits flight data directly from the aircraft to internet vendors not participating in the LADD program. Non-participating internet vendors collect and post all ADS-B Out flight data on the internet. To address ADS-B Out privacy concerns, the FAA has initiated the Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) program to improve the privacy of eligible aircraft. ADSBExchange does not participate in the program that the blocklist is part of. They even cover this on their homepage https://www.adsbexchange.com/ https://www.adsbexchange.com/ > First and foremost ADS-B Exchange does not participate in the filtering performed by most other flight tracking websites which do not share data on military or certain private aircraft. Because ADS-B Exchange does not use any FAA data there are no FAA BARR/LADD, military, or other “filters” preventing you from seeing the the data you collected. ADS-B Exchange simply does not accept payment or requests to remove aircraft from public tracking!
- mlindner 4y agoLADD is only one system, that adsbexchange doesn't use, but PIA still applies to them. Once the ICAO number changes the link the person posted above will no longer point to Elon's jet. You'd have to again have someone in person at the airport to deanonymize the jet. ADSB Exchange can't get around ICAO anonymizing just by looking at the transponder data.
- kjksf 4y agohttps://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288 https://twitter.com/scottwww/status/1490553502640140288 > Elon uses the FAA PIA privacy program for a private plane ID. When using a PIA address, the owner is anon and private, not public. Sweeney’s workaround is (likely) to spot a (rare) ICAO plane resembling Musk’s & noting the private code. You can no longer claim it's public. It was de-anonymized in some way. It's no longer a case of reposting public information but someone going considerable lengths to post this information. The @ElonJet guy even bragged about it: > Elon got PIA but I've already identified it!
- TehCorwiz 4y agoIf you already know the plane's ID it doesn't matter if they redact the name and address after the fact.
- cactusplant7374 4y agohttps://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-appears-use-faa-tool-block-jet-tracking-twitter-2022-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-appears-use-faa-to... > "These privacy mitigation programs are effective for real-time operations but do not guarantee absolute privacy," an FAA spokesperson said. "A flight can still be tracked in other ways such as a Freedom of Information Act request, www.LiveATC.com, ADSB Exchange, or a frequently departed airport."
- akiselev 4y agoThat plane: https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... Registered owner: FALCON LANDING LLC at 1 Rocket Rd, Hawthorne, CA. Google Maps known businesses at 1 Rocket Rd: SpaceX and Onsite Dental (huh?) That’s not how you do anonymous.
- ar_lan 4y agoOn-site Dental is pretty common for a lot of tech companies - dentist comes to you. It’s nice enough.
- 4y ago
- mlindner 4y agoThis confuses the issue though. ICAO numbers change if your aircraft is enrolled in the PIA program, which Elon is. Sweeny was bypassing this by using people on the ground to circumvent this by watching the jet's movement and if an aircraft was going to takeoff that had an unknown ICAO number he'd have someone at the airport to figure out it was Elon's jet that had changed it's ICAO number. Your link will only be valid until he again changes his ICAO number. More info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy
- madars 4y agoThe ICAO number in the GP's comment is listed in the FAA registry for the N-number: https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=628TS https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResul... (Mode S Code (Base 16 / Hex): A835AF). Are you saying that PIA program can make registry.faa.gov report data that's either obfuscated or out of sync? Why is it not reporting such data now? (Edit: Or maybe GP's comment is using a non-privacy ICAO number and the actual number squawked is private?)
- mlindner 4y agoThe PIA program, from my understanding, removes the ICAO number from that page. It's possibly in a state that he's not registered with PIA at the moment.
- mbreese 4y agoAre you sure that plane actually has a PIA ICAO number? Or that on the ground spotters were required to find the new ICAO? I know nothing about this, but was a rabbit hole to explore. The tail number for his plane is well known. If you put that N-number into an ICAO conversion script (https://www.avionictools.com/icao.php https://www.avionictools.com/icao.php), you get the same Hex number that you see from adsbexchange.com. From what I can tell, the script is using an algorithm and not doing a DB lookup. So, just based on the tail number, you could figure out the canonical ICAO code for the plane. The strange thing is that adsbexchange also lists the plane as being part of the LADD (Limiting Aircraft Data Displayed) program (but I don’t know the source of this annotation). AFAICT, LADD limits public display of information, but only for data distributed from the FAA. Crowd sourced data isn’t limited (nor could it be). In order to address this privacy shortcoming, the PIA program exists. This would change the ICAO for the plane to be disconnected from the tail number. But from the tracking website, it seems like the ICAO number for his plane hasn’t been changed/anonymized(?!?). So either, they haven’t actually gotten the new ICAO number installed (after 10-ish months), or the plane isn’t eligible to be part of the program. PIA requires the plane to only fly domestically and have the right kind of transmitter. If the plane flys internationally, it can’t have an anonymized ICAO number. See: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy Otherwise, I don’t see how anyone could track this particular plane if it did have a PIA ICAO identifier and you only knew the tail number. Like I said, I don’t know very much about this, but it is a fascinating rabbit hole. Anyone want to correct where I went wrong?
- mytailorisrich 4y agoThe available flight information does not identify anyone. I can go on one of those websites, see all those flights, but I have no idea who they belong to or who's on board. That changes once someone specifically links a private jet to someone. Within the EU I'd be interested in the ramifications with regards to the GDPR.
- philderbeast 4y agonone whatsoever. the linking is done simply by looking up who the plane is registered to, and that is also public information. you can of course always go the other way, look who owns a plane, and the go to flight information from there. there is nothing private about any of the information used in the process.
- mytailorisrich 4y ago> none whatsoever I would ponder the GDPR's definition of personal data before making such definitive claim.
- jacquesm 4y agoThis all plays out in the USA.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoUnderstood but irrelevant to my point/question.
- sc0ttyd 4y agoThe GDPR only applies to businesses, not individuals. So, clearly in this case it does not apply at all since the person behind @ElonJet is acting in an individual capacity. https://dataprivacymanager.net/who-does-the-eu-gdpr-apply-to/ https://dataprivacymanager.net/who-does-the-eu-gdpr-apply-to...
- 4y ago
- fredgrott 4y agoEssentially Elon wants to use false debate to bolster his actions without any moderation org that he claimed he would form. Another impulsive act despite other forces forming negative business opinions of all his impulsive actions. He will be laughed out of court by any judge.
- darepublic 4y agoSo to be clear, this info is already public but a lack of web scraping ability prevents the low end stalkers from stalking without the twitter account.
- jacquesm 4y agoMaybe they know how to use Google? https://www.google.com/search?q=a835af https://www.google.com/search?q=a835af And if you don't have the registration that one more search. All of this information is public and that goes for pretty much all aircraft. If the bar is 'low end stalkers that don't have internet' then yes, it will make a difference.
- ericmay 4y agoThey can just check the website.