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So, Google builds around Chrome. That's fine. Apple has every right to implement those non-standard APIs that Google uses (Microsoft fought Oracle for that righ

So, Google builds around Chrome. That's fine. Apple has every right to implement those non-standard APIs that Google uses (Microsoft fought Oracle for that right), and they could feasibly hack in workarounds for all of these problems if they cared or had to compete with Chrome in the first place. We'll have to see where things go after Apple starts playing nice. I support legislation that restricts Chrome only if Apple doesn't stand to directly profit from it.

acdha 4y ago
It's not that Google builds around Chrome as much as they use their control of things which are unrelated to Chrome to promote Chrome. Right now, Apple favors their browser on iOS and Google favors theirs everywhere. I fully support consumer choice so I think the right answer would be iOS supporting other browsers and Google not being allowed to promote their browser in unrelated apps. If Chrome is actually so much better, they don't need to interrupt a YouTube or Gmail user's session to tell them.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Then we're at something of an impasse. Apple also promotes their own browser on MacOS, so it's not like they're innocent of this too. Having more options is simply a greater priority than stopping $COMPANY from cross-promoting a browser.
  - acdha 4y ago
    You have to think about what happens next. Google pushing Chrome on users of their web apps has successfully put Firefox into what appears to be a fatal downward spiral, and has lead to more developers only supporting Chrome. Microsoft stopped trying to fight that and created Edge-on-Chromium. Safari on iOS has been the primary thing keeping web development from being Chrome development and if you care about the web or open standards you want to think about what happens if that changes.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Open Standards had their shot, Apple turned their back on them. It doesn't matter at this point what happens, because both companies have proven that they need government intervention to do the right thing. If Apple doesn't want to build a Chrome competitor, then that's not Google's fault. Both companies are refusing to give up their strangleholds, and should be prosecuted accordingly. First and foremost though, Apple needs to be litigated. The rights of the user should supercede the petty combat between browser developers.
      - vehemenz 4y ago
        It seems a bit strong to suggest the "rights of the user" are in question here, when no one is being forced to use an Apple phone. It's happening everywhere in this thread, and I'm a bit surprised why more people don't recognize that consumers already have rights and a choice. It's called Android.
      - halostatue 4y ago
        It is untrue that Apple turned their back on open standards. What is true is that Google has hijacked the standards body and has pushed things as "standards" that nobody except Google wants (WebUSB anyone?) and have significant downsides for user security and privacy. WebKit has flat-out refused to implement standards that impose risks greater than their benefit. So has Firefox. It would help if you argued on the facts, not on your emotion.
pessimizer 4y ago
> I support legislation that restricts Chrome only if Apple doesn't stand to directly profit from it. Why would you connect how these two different companies should be treated? Sculpting regulation to attempt to engineer an outcome institutionalizing the current market balance between two oligarchs is just about the opposite of what I want any regulator doing.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  You don't litigate Carnegie Steel before preventing Rockefeller from directly profiting off it. Monopoly-busting 101.

acdha 4y ago

It's not that Google builds around Chrome as much as they use their control of things which are unrelated to Chrome to promote Chrome. Right now, Apple favors their browser on iOS and Google favors theirs everywhere. I fully support consumer choice so I think the right answer would be iOS supporting other browsers and Google not being allowed to promote their browser in unrelated apps. If Chrome is actually so much better, they don't need to interrupt a YouTube or Gmail user's session to tell them.

smoldesu 4y ago
Then we're at something of an impasse. Apple also promotes their own browser on MacOS, so it's not like they're innocent of this too. Having more options is simply a greater priority than stopping $COMPANY from cross-promoting a browser.
- acdha 4y ago
  You have to think about what happens next. Google pushing Chrome on users of their web apps has successfully put Firefox into what appears to be a fatal downward spiral, and has lead to more developers only supporting Chrome. Microsoft stopped trying to fight that and created Edge-on-Chromium. Safari on iOS has been the primary thing keeping web development from being Chrome development and if you care about the web or open standards you want to think about what happens if that changes.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    Open Standards had their shot, Apple turned their back on them. It doesn't matter at this point what happens, because both companies have proven that they need government intervention to do the right thing. If Apple doesn't want to build a Chrome competitor, then that's not Google's fault. Both companies are refusing to give up their strangleholds, and should be prosecuted accordingly. First and foremost though, Apple needs to be litigated. The rights of the user should supercede the petty combat between browser developers.
    - vehemenz 4y ago
      It seems a bit strong to suggest the "rights of the user" are in question here, when no one is being forced to use an Apple phone. It's happening everywhere in this thread, and I'm a bit surprised why more people don't recognize that consumers already have rights and a choice. It's called Android.
    - halostatue 4y ago
      It is untrue that Apple turned their back on open standards. What is true is that Google has hijacked the standards body and has pushed things as "standards" that nobody except Google wants (WebUSB anyone?) and have significant downsides for user security and privacy. WebKit has flat-out refused to implement standards that impose risks greater than their benefit. So has Firefox. It would help if you argued on the facts, not on your emotion.

pessimizer 4y ago

> I support legislation that restricts Chrome only if Apple doesn't stand to directly profit from it. Why would you connect how these two different companies should be treated? Sculpting regulation to attempt to engineer an outcome institutionalizing the current market balance between two oligarchs is just about the opposite of what I want any regulator doing.

smoldesu 4y ago
You don't litigate Carnegie Steel before preventing Rockefeller from directly profiting off it. Monopoly-busting 101.