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> I think Mercedes and other automakers have a good chance to bypass Tesla now since Elno is captivated by his Twitter acquisition. I’ve been disappointed in E

by bnjms 4y ago

> I think Mercedes and other automakers have a good chance to bypass Tesla now since Elno is captivated by his Twitter acquisition. I’ve been disappointed in Elon for some time and feel society may have already taken him for all of his good ideas. So I’d bet the opposite. This is a chance for Tesla to recover and match the established auto makers. And the only chance they’ll get.

snotrockets 4y ago
So far, Tesla has been incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer. There are many small car manufacturers, some build exquisite cars that are technological and design marvels, but what Ford realized early, and Nagoya perfected (just consider how many modern op practices originated there!) is that it's not about the machine, but about the infrastructure. This is both pre-sale, where you have to build a lean, mean, fast pipeline from vendors to assembly, and post-sales, where you have to have service infrastructure that spans continents, if not the world. Tesla so far shows very little signs of being able to do either. And just like Whitley failed and ended up being bought by Mumbai, my personal bet (caveat lector!) is that Tesla-the-brand might survive, but Tesla-the-car-manufacturer would end up a subsidiary of a Chinese car manufacturer, who has the car manufacturing chops, but can't build a brand.
- tiahura 4y ago
  VW made about 4.5 Billion in profit in Q3. Tesla made about 3.3 Billion. Seems pretty major to me.
  - erikstarck 4y ago
    Yeah, and highest margin by far in the auto industry. While growing 50% per year.
    - sumeno 4y ago
      Now that Elon has ruined his carefully crafted PR image of a real life Tony Stark we'll see how long that growth continues.
      - Domenic_S 4y ago
        Only the terminally online think people buy Teslas because of Elon
        XorNot 4y ago
        No one thinks people buy Tesla's because of Elon. But people absolutely will not buy Tesla's because of Elon. Brands work hard to avoid negative sentiment for a reason.
        Domenic_S 4y ago
        The person I was replying to does, which is why I made the comment. I agree with your other two sentences.
        epistasis 4y ago
        I have a Tesla, and love it (at least as much as I could ever love a car, I'd prefer a car-free life honestly). The worst thing about it isn't the panel gaps or reliability (haven't had any problems). The worst part is Elon Musk and his fans. Shortly after getting the car three and a half years ago, I was leaving an outdoor party and a man who was a Musk superfan was doing that waving of arms of worship that you sometimes see fans do at metal conferences, and it was just embarrassing. Previously the same man had been gushing about full self driving, and I said there was no chance it would be delivered on time, if ever, and he professed his undying trust in Musk. Combined with Musk's recent anti-Ukraine efforts, his hyper-partisan paranoia thay he's trying to push on Twitter, his hate for trans people, his hate for biological science exhibited throughout the pandemic and even today in his "jokes" about prosecuting Fauci, Musk is waging cultural war against every single aspect of my identity. I hate Musk so so so much, and I know he had almost nothing to do with the creation of the car I like, but it still pains me everytime I get in it to know that I helped such a despicable person make a ton of money. Never again will I buy a Tesla, especially since there are now competitors. I'm sure I would hate all the rest of the auto execs almost as much if I knew as much about them as I know about Musk, but the nice thing is that I dont know a damn thing about Stellaris's CEO, from their name to their former partners. And there's a lot of value to that, as a customer. Maybe Musk is just trying to win over conservatives and jackasses to but Teslas, but I doubt it. I think he's just a dangerous fool.
    - HWR_14 4y ago
      They are the highest margin because EVs are still supply limited. How smart people think that margin will survive once there is competition amazes me.
      - tiahura 4y ago
        Nobody thinks it will. However Tesla makes about $9000 in profit per car. If that is cut in half it still beats Toyota’s $1200 by a wide margin.
        HWR_14 4y ago
        I don't see why it would only cut in half, as opposed to settling on a profit margin similar to Toyota's (although it will be higher in dollars because it will be a percentage of the retail price).
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- panick21_ 4y ago
  > So far, Tesla has been incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer. When people make claims like this its just really fucking baffling. Like, are you so blinded by hate that you are unable to look up basic stastics? Tesla is growing like gangbusters. In 2023 they will very sell pretty close to the same amount of as BMW, a company that has existed for 100 years. They are overtaking more and more car companies all the time. They are in range of companies like Geely for example. In fact, partly because of Tesla car companies have been merging. And these large mega companies are using sales volume. Tesla is already making more profit then those companies, while also growing faster. Like seriously, what about making record profits, fast growth and overtaking more and more large car companies in volume says 'incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer'. > is that it's not about the machine, but about the infrastructure. > This is both pre-sale, where you have to build a lean, mean, fast pipeline from vendors to assembly, and post-sales, where you have to have service infrastructure that spans continents, if not the world. You are joking right? Tesla has invested more in infrastructure then the other car makers. The super charger network. They have their own huge direct-to-consumer sales team. They have distribution centers all over the world that they own. They have vertically integrated their service and this for a long time was losing money, but as they grow is increasingly gone make money. In addition to that they have built huge, vertically integrated factory parks that are bigger then almost everything anybody else is building. Go to Austin and see for yourself. Tesla is investing in its own battery materials production and making its own battery in the same factory where they are making the cars. Literally nobody else has anything like that. You statement is literally the opposite of correct. Tesla has exactly done what you suggest, a huge global investment in infrastructure. > Tesla so far shows very little signs of being able to do either. I'm sorry but are blind? Have you not look at Tesla numbers and statistics since 2014? Because what you are saying is straight up delusional. Its not even open for interpretation. Tesla made profit of 3 billion $ in Q3. That is while growing the amount of Super charger, amount of Service centers, amount of distribution centers, scaling two gigantic factory projects, investing in its own battery production and investing in self driving (including its own data centers). > subsidiary of a Chinese car manufacturer The largest manufactures in China are Geely and SAIC. Tesla will produce more vehicles then Geely by next year and Tesla is already making far more money then Geely. SAIC is still a little bigger then that but Tesla is already beating them in terms of profit. Are you simply not looking at these numbers?
api 4y ago
"You die a hero or live long enough to become a villain."

by bnjms 4y ago

snotrockets 4y ago

So far, Tesla has been incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer. There are many small car manufacturers, some build exquisite cars that are technological and design marvels, but what Ford realized early, and Nagoya perfected (just consider how many modern op practices originated there!) is that it's not about the machine, but about the infrastructure. This is both pre-sale, where you have to build a lean, mean, fast pipeline from vendors to assembly, and post-sales, where you have to have service infrastructure that spans continents, if not the world. Tesla so far shows very little signs of being able to do either. And just like Whitley failed and ended up being bought by Mumbai, my personal bet (caveat lector!) is that Tesla-the-brand might survive, but Tesla-the-car-manufacturer would end up a subsidiary of a Chinese car manufacturer, who has the car manufacturing chops, but can't build a brand.

tiahura 4y ago
VW made about 4.5 Billion in profit in Q3. Tesla made about 3.3 Billion. Seems pretty major to me.
- erikstarck 4y ago
  Yeah, and highest margin by far in the auto industry. While growing 50% per year.
  - sumeno 4y ago
    Now that Elon has ruined his carefully crafted PR image of a real life Tony Stark we'll see how long that growth continues.
    - Domenic_S 4y ago
      Only the terminally online think people buy Teslas because of Elon
      - XorNot 4y ago
        No one thinks people buy Tesla's because of Elon. But people absolutely will not buy Tesla's because of Elon. Brands work hard to avoid negative sentiment for a reason.
        Domenic_S 4y ago
        The person I was replying to does, which is why I made the comment. I agree with your other two sentences.
      - epistasis 4y ago
        I have a Tesla, and love it (at least as much as I could ever love a car, I'd prefer a car-free life honestly). The worst thing about it isn't the panel gaps or reliability (haven't had any problems). The worst part is Elon Musk and his fans. Shortly after getting the car three and a half years ago, I was leaving an outdoor party and a man who was a Musk superfan was doing that waving of arms of worship that you sometimes see fans do at metal conferences, and it was just embarrassing. Previously the same man had been gushing about full self driving, and I said there was no chance it would be delivered on time, if ever, and he professed his undying trust in Musk. Combined with Musk's recent anti-Ukraine efforts, his hyper-partisan paranoia thay he's trying to push on Twitter, his hate for trans people, his hate for biological science exhibited throughout the pandemic and even today in his "jokes" about prosecuting Fauci, Musk is waging cultural war against every single aspect of my identity. I hate Musk so so so much, and I know he had almost nothing to do with the creation of the car I like, but it still pains me everytime I get in it to know that I helped such a despicable person make a ton of money. Never again will I buy a Tesla, especially since there are now competitors. I'm sure I would hate all the rest of the auto execs almost as much if I knew as much about them as I know about Musk, but the nice thing is that I dont know a damn thing about Stellaris's CEO, from their name to their former partners. And there's a lot of value to that, as a customer. Maybe Musk is just trying to win over conservatives and jackasses to but Teslas, but I doubt it. I think he's just a dangerous fool.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    They are the highest margin because EVs are still supply limited. How smart people think that margin will survive once there is competition amazes me.
    - tiahura 4y ago
      Nobody thinks it will. However Tesla makes about $9000 in profit per car. If that is cut in half it still beats Toyota’s $1200 by a wide margin.
      - HWR_14 4y ago
        I don't see why it would only cut in half, as opposed to settling on a profit margin similar to Toyota's (although it will be higher in dollars because it will be a percentage of the retail price).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
panick21_ 4y ago
> So far, Tesla has been incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer. When people make claims like this its just really fucking baffling. Like, are you so blinded by hate that you are unable to look up basic stastics? Tesla is growing like gangbusters. In 2023 they will very sell pretty close to the same amount of as BMW, a company that has existed for 100 years. They are overtaking more and more car companies all the time. They are in range of companies like Geely for example. In fact, partly because of Tesla car companies have been merging. And these large mega companies are using sales volume. Tesla is already making more profit then those companies, while also growing faster. Like seriously, what about making record profits, fast growth and overtaking more and more large car companies in volume says 'incapable of stepping up to be a major car manufacturer'. > is that it's not about the machine, but about the infrastructure. > This is both pre-sale, where you have to build a lean, mean, fast pipeline from vendors to assembly, and post-sales, where you have to have service infrastructure that spans continents, if not the world. You are joking right? Tesla has invested more in infrastructure then the other car makers. The super charger network. They have their own huge direct-to-consumer sales team. They have distribution centers all over the world that they own. They have vertically integrated their service and this for a long time was losing money, but as they grow is increasingly gone make money. In addition to that they have built huge, vertically integrated factory parks that are bigger then almost everything anybody else is building. Go to Austin and see for yourself. Tesla is investing in its own battery materials production and making its own battery in the same factory where they are making the cars. Literally nobody else has anything like that. You statement is literally the opposite of correct. Tesla has exactly done what you suggest, a huge global investment in infrastructure. > Tesla so far shows very little signs of being able to do either. I'm sorry but are blind? Have you not look at Tesla numbers and statistics since 2014? Because what you are saying is straight up delusional. Its not even open for interpretation. Tesla made profit of 3 billion $ in Q3. That is while growing the amount of Super charger, amount of Service centers, amount of distribution centers, scaling two gigantic factory projects, investing in its own battery production and investing in self driving (including its own data centers). > subsidiary of a Chinese car manufacturer The largest manufactures in China are Geely and SAIC. Tesla will produce more vehicles then Geely by next year and Tesla is already making far more money then Geely. SAIC is still a little bigger then that but Tesla is already beating them in terms of profit. Are you simply not looking at these numbers?

api 4y ago

"You die a hero or live long enough to become a villain."