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> I would really like to have a true Firefox on iOS but I'm also cognizant of the fact that iOS' browser restriction is basically the only reason why “web” is n

> I would really like to have a true Firefox on iOS but I'm also cognizant of the fact that iOS' browser restriction is basically the only reason why “web” is not a synonym for “whatever the Google Chrome team chooses to ship”. I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox on Android has a decent claim to be being better than Chrome at this point (largely because you can't run extensions on Chrome).

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox on Android has a decent claim to be being better than Chrome at this point (largely because you can't run extensions on Chrome). Firefox is better than Chrome on Android, but it doesn't have the market share to match.
- spijdar 4y ago
  I know this probably won't be a popular opinion, but I have to disagree with this. I use Firefox on all my "general purpose" computing devices, but I only use Firefox on Android for recalling the passwords I have saved on my Firefox/Mozilla account. For any day-to-day browsing, I use Brave with the cryptocurrency bits turned off. I used the "Fennec" version of Firefox for Android for years, since my first smartphone in college, but by the time the GeckoView-based rewrite was released, I just got tired of the poor performance and reduced battery life compared to Chromium. Only one anecdote, but Firefox felt more jittery and made my phone much hotter than Chromium did. After the UI overhaul, where (IMO) they tried to copy a Chromium-style interface, I ran out of any non-ideological reasons to use it over Chromium-with-an-ad-blocker-built-in.
  - dutchCourage 4y ago
    Unfortunately I have a similar experience with FF on Android. A more jittery experience and a bigger batter drain than Chrome, even without any extensions installed. I'll plug my main mobile browser which is now Samsung's internet. I gave it a hesitant try after being disappointed by FF and I'm positively surprised. The UI customization options are even better than Firefox.
    - Zuiii 4y ago
      Samsung's internet has a misguided "feature" where it will change some colors but not others when night/dark mode is active. Do not use it if you rely on accurate color reproduction. Expect a decease in usability (dark text on dark backgrounds, light on light) on reading some sites.
    - brokenodo 4y ago
      Note that the Samsung Internet privacy policy is awful. They collect: “The information we obtain in this manner may include, identifiers associated with your devices, types of devices, web browser characteristics, device and operating system type and characteristics, language preferences, clickstream data, your interactions with Samsung Internet (such as the web pages you visit, links you click and features you use), dates and times of your use of Samsung Internet, and other information about your use of Samsung Internet.” https://developer.samsung.com/internet/privacy-policy-us.html#Childrens-Personal-Information https://developer.samsung.com/internet/privacy-policy-us.htm...
      - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
        If you hadn't replied with this, I would have. Thank you for spreading this.
      - dutchCourage 4y ago
        Thanks for the heads-up, this is pretty bad indeed. There's truly no escaping the fight between convenience and privacy. Sigh
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      The rewrite was pretty bad yes but it's good again now. I never use chrome anymore on my Android devices. Only things that still bother me on FF is not having access to all extensions and not having pull to refresh.
      - noisem4ker 4y ago
        "Pull to refresh" has been in Firefox for Android for years. See Settings > Customise > Gestures. About not having the full extension catalog available out of the box: it's pitiful, but if you're determined to install non pre-allowed extensions, you can do so using Nightly and with a custom add-on collection. See https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extension-support-in-firefox-for-android-nightly/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio....
  - lzauz 4y ago
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jesserwright 4y ago
    I would advise against storing passwords in a browser vendor sync service. Bitwarden, 1Password, etc.. are the tools for that specific job and function across all major browsers and even some native GUI shells.
    - random314 4y ago
      Why the caution?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - acdha 4y ago
      How would you explain the benefits to the average person? This doubles the number of parties they need to trust and usually means adding a subscription service so it seems like a tough sell.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
gjsman-1000 4y ago
> I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox is currently superior to Chrome on Android, yet the market share is abysmal and irrelevant. I don't see why swapping the browser engine would grow market share, other than wishful thinking.
- idle_zealot 4y ago
  You have to consider that Chrome is the default on most Android distributions. A more apt analog would be FF's similarly poor market share on Windows or macOS.
est31 4y ago
Safari does support extensions on iOS: https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/ https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/ So you can't innovate on that, at least meaningfully. If you want the browser with best website support, then you'd go with Chrome. If you wanted your bookmarks from your desktop to be in sync with mobile bookmarks, then most likely you are going to install Chrome, because most likely you had Chrome on your desktop (as it is the most common desktop browser). Also, an apple policy change to lifts the restrictions for non-apple apps to not be extendable, is a different beast entirely from allowing custom web rendering engines.
- sodality2 4y ago
  > If you wanted your bookmarks from your desktop to be in sync with mobile bookmarks, then most likely you are going to install Chrome iOS+Chrome users already do this, it would just change iOS Chrome's backend rendering engine.
- vlunkr 4y ago
  > Safari does support extensions on iOS They have to come from the app store, which greatly reduces the number of plugins available compared to FF, and subjects them to the same strict policies as their apps.
rvz 4y ago
> I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox on Android has a decent claim to be being better than Chrome at this point (largely because you can't run extensions on Chrome). Let's start with the facts. Firefox market share has been chronically flat with little to no change for years, as the global mobile browser market share [0] has shown even with Android having browser choice for the user. Hence that, it also suggests that even if Apple did the same thing, it would just further cement Chrome's dominance on iOS. Firefox on mobile is shrinking into irrelevancy. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/world...
Groxx 4y ago
Firefox has supported extensions on Android for several years now. The current state of support is a rather significant step down from where it used to be. Surprisingly, that's not enough to be competitive with the browser that's already installed on people's phones.
- Zuiii 4y ago
  I just tried installing an add-on on my android and the "Add to Firefox" button is still grayed out. Searching for "compatible" extensions yields only 15 results. So no, Firefox still doesn't support extensions on android and hasn't since they disabled them years ago. THIS is why people like me don't use firefox on android and use chromium-based browsers instead. At least, they let me install the add-ons I want.
  - ilovegorhill 4y ago
    To use more extensions on Android, install Firefox Beta and follow this tutorial: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extension-support-in-firefox-for-android-nightly/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio... (the title says Nightly but it works on Beta too now).
  - Groxx 4y ago
    >Searching for "compatible" extensions yields only 15 results. That's the complete list, yeah. It's utterly ridiculous and insulting. You can get around it by making an online collection of extensions with a Mozilla/whatever account, but you can't install from files. I largely agree, it doesn't meet my bar for "supports extensions" :/ hence at the very least "significant step down" - that much is at least not contentious.
- nicoburns 4y ago
  The old version of Firefox on Android was awful. The UI was laggy, and the scrolling was so slow it could actually take over a minute to scroll up long pages.
  - 4y ago
Zak 4y ago
You can barely run extensions on Android Firefox. The stable version only allows "recommended" extensions, of which there are 18 and no guaranteed path to joining that club for a developer. My perception is that there was an almost-successful internal movement to kill extensions on Android entirely.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

spijdar 4y ago
I know this probably won't be a popular opinion, but I have to disagree with this. I use Firefox on all my "general purpose" computing devices, but I only use Firefox on Android for recalling the passwords I have saved on my Firefox/Mozilla account. For any day-to-day browsing, I use Brave with the cryptocurrency bits turned off. I used the "Fennec" version of Firefox for Android for years, since my first smartphone in college, but by the time the GeckoView-based rewrite was released, I just got tired of the poor performance and reduced battery life compared to Chromium. Only one anecdote, but Firefox felt more jittery and made my phone much hotter than Chromium did. After the UI overhaul, where (IMO) they tried to copy a Chromium-style interface, I ran out of any non-ideological reasons to use it over Chromium-with-an-ad-blocker-built-in.
- dutchCourage 4y ago
  Unfortunately I have a similar experience with FF on Android. A more jittery experience and a bigger batter drain than Chrome, even without any extensions installed. I'll plug my main mobile browser which is now Samsung's internet. I gave it a hesitant try after being disappointed by FF and I'm positively surprised. The UI customization options are even better than Firefox.
  - Zuiii 4y ago
    Samsung's internet has a misguided "feature" where it will change some colors but not others when night/dark mode is active. Do not use it if you rely on accurate color reproduction. Expect a decease in usability (dark text on dark backgrounds, light on light) on reading some sites.
  - brokenodo 4y ago
    Note that the Samsung Internet privacy policy is awful. They collect: “The information we obtain in this manner may include, identifiers associated with your devices, types of devices, web browser characteristics, device and operating system type and characteristics, language preferences, clickstream data, your interactions with Samsung Internet (such as the web pages you visit, links you click and features you use), dates and times of your use of Samsung Internet, and other information about your use of Samsung Internet.” https://developer.samsung.com/internet/privacy-policy-us.html#Childrens-Personal-Information https://developer.samsung.com/internet/privacy-policy-us.htm...
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      If you hadn't replied with this, I would have. Thank you for spreading this.
    - dutchCourage 4y ago
      Thanks for the heads-up, this is pretty bad indeed. There's truly no escaping the fight between convenience and privacy. Sigh
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    The rewrite was pretty bad yes but it's good again now. I never use chrome anymore on my Android devices. Only things that still bother me on FF is not having access to all extensions and not having pull to refresh.
    - noisem4ker 4y ago
      "Pull to refresh" has been in Firefox for Android for years. See Settings > Customise > Gestures. About not having the full extension catalog available out of the box: it's pitiful, but if you're determined to install non pre-allowed extensions, you can do so using Nightly and with a custom add-on collection. See https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extension-support-in-firefox-for-android-nightly/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio....
- lzauz 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jesserwright 4y ago
  I would advise against storing passwords in a browser vendor sync service. Bitwarden, 1Password, etc.. are the tools for that specific job and function across all major browsers and even some native GUI shells.
  - random314 4y ago
    Why the caution?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - acdha 4y ago
    How would you explain the benefits to the average person? This doubles the number of parties they need to trust and usually means adding a subscription service so it seems like a tough sell.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

gjsman-1000 4y ago

> I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox is currently superior to Chrome on Android, yet the market share is abysmal and irrelevant. I don't see why swapping the browser engine would grow market share, other than wishful thinking.

idle_zealot 4y ago
You have to consider that Chrome is the default on most Android distributions. A more apt analog would be FF's similarly poor market share on Windows or macOS.

est31 4y ago

Safari does support extensions on iOS: https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/ https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/ So you can't innovate on that, at least meaningfully. If you want the browser with best website support, then you'd go with Chrome. If you wanted your bookmarks from your desktop to be in sync with mobile bookmarks, then most likely you are going to install Chrome, because most likely you had Chrome on your desktop (as it is the most common desktop browser). Also, an apple policy change to lifts the restrictions for non-apple apps to not be extendable, is a different beast entirely from allowing custom web rendering engines.

sodality2 4y ago
> If you wanted your bookmarks from your desktop to be in sync with mobile bookmarks, then most likely you are going to install Chrome iOS+Chrome users already do this, it would just change iOS Chrome's backend rendering engine.
vlunkr 4y ago
> Safari does support extensions on iOS They have to come from the app store, which greatly reduces the number of plugins available compared to FF, and subjects them to the same strict policies as their apps.

rvz 4y ago

> I feel like Firefox might actually regain marketshare if it can ship on iOS. Firefox on Android has a decent claim to be being better than Chrome at this point (largely because you can't run extensions on Chrome). Let's start with the facts. Firefox market share has been chronically flat with little to no change for years, as the global mobile browser market share [0] has shown even with Android having browser choice for the user. Hence that, it also suggests that even if Apple did the same thing, it would just further cement Chrome's dominance on iOS. Firefox on mobile is shrinking into irrelevancy. [0] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/mobile/world...

Groxx 4y ago

Firefox has supported extensions on Android for several years now. The current state of support is a rather significant step down from where it used to be. Surprisingly, that's not enough to be competitive with the browser that's already installed on people's phones.

Zuiii 4y ago
I just tried installing an add-on on my android and the "Add to Firefox" button is still grayed out. Searching for "compatible" extensions yields only 15 results. So no, Firefox still doesn't support extensions on android and hasn't since they disabled them years ago. THIS is why people like me don't use firefox on android and use chromium-based browsers instead. At least, they let me install the add-ons I want.
- ilovegorhill 4y ago
  To use more extensions on Android, install Firefox Beta and follow this tutorial: https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extension-support-in-firefox-for-android-nightly/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio... (the title says Nightly but it works on Beta too now).
- Groxx 4y ago
  >Searching for "compatible" extensions yields only 15 results. That's the complete list, yeah. It's utterly ridiculous and insulting. You can get around it by making an online collection of extensions with a Mozilla/whatever account, but you can't install from files. I largely agree, it doesn't meet my bar for "supports extensions" :/ hence at the very least "significant step down" - that much is at least not contentious.
nicoburns 4y ago
The old version of Firefox on Android was awful. The UI was laggy, and the scrolling was so slow it could actually take over a minute to scroll up long pages.
- 4y ago

Zak 4y ago

You can barely run extensions on Android Firefox. The stable version only allows "recommended" extensions, of which there are 18 and no guaranteed path to joining that club for a developer. My perception is that there was an almost-successful internal movement to kill extensions on Android entirely.