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When our Model 3 got access to FSD, my 6 year-old desperately wanted to try it out. I figured a low-traffic Sunday morning was the perfect time to test it out,

When our Model 3 got access to FSD, my 6 year-old desperately wanted to try it out. I figured a low-traffic Sunday morning was the perfect time to test it out, so we headed out to grab Mom a coffee downtown. The car almost caused an accident 3 separate times. The first, was when it almost drove into oncoming traffic at an intersection where the road curves north on both sides. The second, was when it failed to understand a fork on the right side of the road, swerved back and forth twice, and then almost drove straight into a road sign. The third, in downtown, was when a brick crosswalk confused it on a left turn, causing it to literally drive up onto the corner of the intersection. Thank God there weren't pedestrians there. When we upgraded to a Y, I turned down FSD. I don't imagine I'll be paying for it ever again.

judge2020 4y ago
> Thank God there weren't pedestrians there. It would've still stopped - the FSD system doesn't override the background tasks that power the AEB systems that stop the car from hitting humans or cars.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Except that time FSD drove right into a semi truck and killed the guy sleeping in his car...
  - sharpneli 4y ago
    You mean it would disable FSD when it would see that impact was inevitable so Tesla could claim that FSD had nothing to do with the accident.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      > To ensure our statistics are conservative, we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact, https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        Would make sense with 30+ seconds depending on the level of the warning
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        30 seconds is a _very_ long time driving.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        Imagine AI puts you into a separated oncoming traffic lane when visibility is extremely low (a few meters) and then disengages. It might take you quite a while to get out of such conundrum.
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        Standard autopilot doesn't do lane changes. Enhanced autopilot does, but requires the driver to acknowledge with the indicator stalk. I know this was just an example scenario and your point is broader, but I'm struggling to think of another circumstance where autopilot is at fault 30 seconds post disengage, as it's effectively just a fancy adaptive cruise control.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        How does this work on intersections? E.g. if you have to turn, because straight ahead is wrong way sign for a one way road.
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        Autopilot steers with the lane you're in. If it's unsure at the intersection, it will force the driver to retake control. I've never been at an intersection where straight ahead is a wrong way (wouldn't the traffic be then facing you?), but like any cruise control system, it would likely require driver attention. Autopilot is not intended to be enable and go to sleep. It's simply fancy cruise control.
  - blendergeek 4y ago
    Citation needed. Unless you are referring to these [0] incidents from 2016, before FSD was released. That was Tesla Autopilot (which comes standard on all Tesla vehicles now). Also, FSD uses active camera monitoring to make sure the driver is paying attention, so no you can't sleep in your while FSD is activated. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-looks-like-prior-crash/ https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-lo...
    - SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago
      What is the difference between Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot?
- andsoitis 4y ago
  > It would've still stopped We don’t know that. An Tesla cannot claim it.
  - 93po 4y ago
    We also don't know the opposite but that sure as heck won't stop people claiming they know it as a fact and cause the publication of dozens of news articles over nothing.
    - worik 4y ago
      It is the precautionary principle.
- westpfelia 4y ago
  > It would've still stopped Would it have though? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w At this point I can't imagine buying anything Tesla related. Or anything related to Elon Musk for that matter. He's a grifter who has managed to stand on the shoulders of giants and call himself tall.
- mcculley 4y ago
  AEB cannot magically instantaneously stop a car that FSD has put into the wrong lane. If you believe otherwise, please do not drive. Cars are dangerous in the hands of those who do not take risks seriously.
tsigo 4y ago
So to be clear, your car almost drove itself into oncoming traffic with your child in it and your first instinct was "Hey, maybe give it two more tries"?
- voganmother42 4y ago
  Well and you don’t need to go far to find others defending the risk to others as well, “it wouldn’t have gone up the curb if there was a person there”, its interesting to see how cavalier people normally are with making that judgement for others, especially for their offspring
  - three_seagrass 4y ago
    Also consumer bias, or "post-purchase rationalization" - i.e. humans overly attribute positivity to goods/services from brands they buy from. Even when it's as bad as throwing you in the wrong lane of traffic.
- solardev 4y ago
  Anyone can make more kids. Not everyone can do more science!
  - twic 4y ago
    -- Cave Johnson
  - iab 4y ago
    New life motto, thank you
  - f1refly 4y ago
    We've experiments to run / there is research to be done / on the people who are still ali~ive!
  - pnut 4y ago
    I know this is a joke, but not everyone can make more kids.
ryandvm 4y ago
[flagged]
- yreg 4y ago
  ~1500 animals died at Neuralink, vast majority of them being rodents. These are not large numbers. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-neuralink-fabricated-headline-idUSL1N32Y1GG https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-neuralink-fabricat...
  - pmarreck 4y ago
    This factcheck looks legitimate. “Over 280 sheep, pigs and monkeys” is unfortunately not very specific though.
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      It does show that the "3000 monkeys" claim is misinformation since the real number is over an order of magnitude less.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    > These are not large numbers. Only when compared to completely different industries, the most commonly cited being education or food. When compared to its own industry, the numbers are still large.
    - yreg 4y ago
      Its own industry being medical research? Perhaps somewhat more important than eating meat or beauty products?
  - bearmode 4y ago
    It's a huge number for this sort of research. Huge.
  - lostlogin 4y ago
    That article also mentions an ongoing federal investigation into the poor treatment of animals there.
dehrmann 4y ago
Pointing out the obvious, it's extremely negligent for Tesla to have this feature available. It's not even close to ready for general use.
- akmarinov 4y ago
  And who’s going to stop them? Certainly not the US government. Enjoy beta testing FSD as an unwilling pedestrian.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    If I see a Tesla in the wild, I shoot its tires out before it has a chance to strike. That's the American way. (I assume this is why the Cybertruck features bulletproof glass, in case my self-firing gun (now in beta) misidentifies the tires.)
    - dylan604 4y ago
      >Cybertruck I still read this as Cyberduck every. damn. time. >in case my self-firing gun (now in beta) misidentifies the tires.) are you mounting that self-firing gun to a car with FSD? that would make for a great hands free experience.
- musha68k 4y ago
  The profit motive is so clear in this case, and criminal. Collecting telemetry for free so you get to improve your ever elusive model, literally paid by your “customers” as well as potentially with their (and potentially “collateral”) lives. It’s horrendous.
- brandonagr2 4y ago
  It's extremely negligent for the driver to let the car drive onto a sidewalk. As the driver you are solely responsible for everything the car does.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Honestly, I feel this way about pretty much all "driver assist" systems in the wild today. That is, I fully understand that to get to Levels 3, 4, and 5, you need to pass through levels 1 and 2 in autonomous driving. But the issue is that I feel like these systems are basically at the "slight drunk teenager" stage, with you as the driver having to ensure they don't mess up too badly. Honestly, unless I can, say, read a book or do something else, these systems (I'm specifically referring to an advanced cruise control/lane keeping system) right now just require me to pay MORE attention and they stress me out more. Fully understand we need folks to help train these systems, but, at least for me, they currently make the driving experience worse.
- influxmoment 4y ago
  For the Tesla driver assistance specifically (non FSD) it's more advanced and reasonable reliable. I find it helps a great deal to reduce fatigue on long drives. It is nearly flawless on highways and watching to see the car is safe is much less fatiguing than a constant centering and monitoring the accelerator. Seeing the car is the right speed is less mental energy than constant control of power to get the right speed
  - roofone 4y ago
    Given the potential consequences of a mistake, it feels like there's still a pretty big difference between "nearly flawless" and flawless. Speed control I'm fine with and is obvs. a mature tech that has been around for decades. Maybe it's the way I drive, but I find lane assist a liability -- especially on curves. More than once the car swerved unexpectedly one way or the other going around a bend. After the 2nd time that happened, I shut it off.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      Lane assist isn't supposed to entirely keep you in the lane on it's own, it's supposed to just help tug you in the right direction as a hint in case you weren't paying perfect attention. It's usually not supposed to steer the car entirely on its own.
bmitc 4y ago
Why give such a company even more of your money though?
- sanedigital 4y ago
  Because—other than FSD—the car is fantastic. I can't imagine driving anything else.
stickfigure 4y ago
How long ago was that? A friend of mine bought a Model Y and got access to FSD about six months ago. I've spent a fair bit of time in this car in the bay area and... I'm impressed? It doesn't drive like a professional but it feels safe. My friend says it's been improving even in just the time he's had it. So maybe it used to be a lot worse? I'm not in the market for a new car but the next time I am, FSD is going to be a big factor. Even if it's just as good as it is right now.
- jsolson 4y ago
  If it's anything like the original Autopilot was: yes. I had one of the first Model S vehicles that was autopilot-capable. Early enough that autopilot itself was added later. The early versions were... intense. Not just in the "if you take your hands of the wheel it might try to kill you" intense, but also in the "even using this as adaptive cruise with lane-keeping, sometimes it will suddenly try to veer off the road and murder you" sense. Even when working "as intended" it would routinely dip into exit ramps if you were in the right lane. As a result, I didn't use it all that often, but over not a lot of time it improved pretty dramatically. At this point my wife and I are on newer Model 3s, and our experience with autopilot (not FSD) as a frequently-used driver assist has been... uneventful? Given the _original_ autopilot experience, though, neither of us is particularly eager to try out FSD yet. Autopilot strikes a good balance for us in terms of being a useful second pair of eyes and hands while unambiguously requiring us to drive the damn car.
- strikelaserclaw 4y ago
  Personally i wouldn't trust FSD with my life until it was battle tested for at-least 10 years.
sam36 4y ago
That sounds really terrible. I honestly thought that Tesla FSD was better than that. It just reminds me of my opinions I had (and still have) like 15+ years ago when I'd get into discussions on random forums about self driving cars. I mean sure, perhaps 100 years down the road when everything driving is required to be in a fully autonomous mode with interlinked wireless communication, maybe perhaps that would work. But that is not what we have right now. Right now every driver on the road is exposed to a potential instant tragedy that is unavoidable. I mean, what is a self driving car going to do if a large semi drops a huge log or freight right in front of you? You have one second to impact. You can either attempt to hold your line and drive over the object, potentially killing/injuring the passengers. Or you can swerve left into oncoming traffic. Or you can swerve right into a busy two way frontage road. No matter which choice is taken, I guarantee there will be a lawsuit. Perhaps one way forward would be perhaps something similar to what medical companies did in the 1980's with the creation of the "vaccine courts". Maybe we need some kind of new "autonomous driving" court which would be staffed with experts who would then decide what kind of cases have merit. That would at least better shield the parent companies and allow them to continue innovating instead of worrying about potential litigation.
- adrr 4y ago
  It’s fine in 90% of scenarios. Those 10% are scary. Mine tried to pull do a right turn at red light but didn’t properly detect the cross traffic last week. That type of scary. If would be nice if cars talked to each other so it didn’t just have to rely on vision.
sakopov 4y ago
I don't have a Tesla but I do follow FSD development and a few people who test updates on Youtube. It really seems like your experience with FSD will vary depending on where you live. I see a guy testing FSD updates in downtown Seattle and neighboring residential streets where it seems very impressive driving in traffic, one way and narrow streets with cars parked on both sides. But then I also see it do some very bizarre moves in other cities. I don't know how Tesla collects and uses self-driving data but it seems like it's different from location to location.
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  > I see a guy testing FSD updates in downtown Seattle In downtown Seattle doesn't it drive into the monorail columns?
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Beauty of frequent updates is no two trips have to be the same. Bonus points for AI models no single human can understand.
- chimerasaurus 4y ago
  I had two Teslas (3, Y) and used FSD in Seattle. It did not work and based on my experience, I am extremely skeptical it will ever work in places like Seattle. The car could not even navigate circling Greenlake without a disconnect. Sold them at the high of the used car market because, in part, I estimate FSD is a liability for the brand and will, eventually, hurt their resale value. That and Elon Musk. Don't need to support that and won't in the future.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
This was my experience with the beta up until about 3 months ago. Since then it’s remarkably improved.
- SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago
  I’m glad that you are having a good experience, but FSD reliably and repeatedly tries to stop at green lights on a 50 mph road near me. I’m just happy - sort of - that I didn’t pay for it, and that I’m only able to try it because my new Model S Plaid has been in the shop for service four times in the last three months… (The loaners that I have had three of those four times have all had FSD.) I am reasonably satisfied with Enhanced Autopilot on highways, though it’s unclear to me what, exactly, is ‘enhanced’ about it. And Navigate on Autopilot seems to add nothing of value.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Weird. I’m able to navigate door to door from north east seattle to south west seattle, which if you’ve ever been here is one of the most difficult and screwed up bits of infrastructure on earth. FSD used to stop at green lights very early on in the beta and you had to tap the accelerator to make it not stop, but at some point they dropped that. My FSD doesn’t just do stoplights right but does yields and merging stop signs and traffic circles and other complex decision making road signs. It’s not flawless, especially on the seattle roads where knowing where the road actually is requires human level reasoning most of the time, so it drifts into parts of the road that I know from experience are for parking but the car assumes is just a widened road. Or there a lot of roads with margins that are gravel but are so subtly different from the damaged road surface it thinks that’s part of the road and tries to drift over before it realizes it’s not. These issues are nothing like the unmitigated disaster it used to be, though, and if they can keep the pace they’ve had over the last 6 months up for another 12 months, it’ll be remarkably useful.
  - webXL 4y ago
    > FSD reliably and repeatedly tries to stop at green lights on a 50 mph road near me I believe that's a "feature". I had it on a loaner too and it wants you to give it permission to cross the intersection by pressing down on the drive stalk or briefly press the accelerator pedal. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_eu/GUID-A701F7DC-875C-4491-BC84-605A77EA152C.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_eu/GUID-A701F7D...
foobarian 4y ago
One problem with this experiment is that, I'm guessing, you monitored the car very closely, ready to take over at any moment, and, in fact, did so in a few cases. But this raises the question, what would have actually happened if you just let the car be? Would it have gotten into accidents? Or maybe it just drives in this alien unfamiliar way but is actually safer?
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  > Or maybe it just drives in this alien unfamiliar way but is actually safer? As long as the roads are a mixed environment of autonomous and non-autonomous vehicles, driving in an unfamiliar way is by definition unsafe because other road users can't anticipate what your car is going to do. That's not even mentioning pedestrians or cyclists.
- rurp 4y ago
  Sounds like great questions to answer in a safe controlled test environment before letting it loose on public roadways.
thepasswordis 4y ago
I had a similar experience when I first got FSD. What I realized was just that I was being scared of the computer. It wasnt about to drive into traffic, and it wasnt about to crash into anything or anything like that. What was happening was that I was rightly being overly cautious of the beta program, and taking control as soon as there was really anything other than driving in a straight line on an empty road. Over time, it became a dependable, usable copilot for me. I would massively miss FSD if it was gone.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
linsomniac 4y ago
Tesla Autopilot significantly decreases fatigue on long trips. I have on numerous occasions (I think 10+) driven 2,400 mile trips. You absolutely have to stay aware during the use of Autopilot, but it really helps decrease cognitive load in many instances during a cross country trip.
mentalpiracy 4y ago
Serious question for you: the FSD near-catastrophically failed twice before you got to town. Why did you continue to use FSD as you entered a more populated area?
- sanedigital 4y ago
  Because it was Sunday morning in Old Town Scottsdale and there weren't any pedestrians around.
GaryNumanVevo 4y ago
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I've got no intention of buying / enabling FSD on my 2020 Model X. I just want a car that I can drive from point A to point B. I'm not even that risk averse, but enabling a beta feature on the road with a bunch of other drivers who barely know what they're doing is a stretch.
kaba0 4y ago
Why even buy from that manufacturer then?

judge2020 4y ago

> Thank God there weren't pedestrians there. It would've still stopped - the FSD system doesn't override the background tasks that power the AEB systems that stop the car from hitting humans or cars.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Except that time FSD drove right into a semi truck and killed the guy sleeping in his car...
- sharpneli 4y ago
  You mean it would disable FSD when it would see that impact was inevitable so Tesla could claim that FSD had nothing to do with the accident.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > To ensure our statistics are conservative, we count any crash in which Autopilot was deactivated within 5 seconds before impact, https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      Would make sense with 30+ seconds depending on the level of the warning
      - TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        30 seconds is a _very_ long time driving.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        Imagine AI puts you into a separated oncoming traffic lane when visibility is extremely low (a few meters) and then disengages. It might take you quite a while to get out of such conundrum.
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        Standard autopilot doesn't do lane changes. Enhanced autopilot does, but requires the driver to acknowledge with the indicator stalk. I know this was just an example scenario and your point is broader, but I'm struggling to think of another circumstance where autopilot is at fault 30 seconds post disengage, as it's effectively just a fancy adaptive cruise control.
        lostmsu 4y ago
        How does this work on intersections? E.g. if you have to turn, because straight ahead is wrong way sign for a one way road.
        TheHappyOddish 4y ago
        Autopilot steers with the lane you're in. If it's unsure at the intersection, it will force the driver to retake control. I've never been at an intersection where straight ahead is a wrong way (wouldn't the traffic be then facing you?), but like any cruise control system, it would likely require driver attention. Autopilot is not intended to be enable and go to sleep. It's simply fancy cruise control.
- blendergeek 4y ago
  Citation needed. Unless you are referring to these [0] incidents from 2016, before FSD was released. That was Tesla Autopilot (which comes standard on all Tesla vehicles now). Also, FSD uses active camera monitoring to make sure the driver is paying attention, so no you can't sleep in your while FSD is activated. [0] https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-looks-like-prior-crash/ https://www.wired.com/story/teslas-latest-autopilot-death-lo...
  - SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago
    What is the difference between Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot?
andsoitis 4y ago
> It would've still stopped We don’t know that. An Tesla cannot claim it.
- 93po 4y ago
  We also don't know the opposite but that sure as heck won't stop people claiming they know it as a fact and cause the publication of dozens of news articles over nothing.
  - worik 4y ago
    It is the precautionary principle.
westpfelia 4y ago
> It would've still stopped Would it have though? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mnG_Gbxf_w At this point I can't imagine buying anything Tesla related. Or anything related to Elon Musk for that matter. He's a grifter who has managed to stand on the shoulders of giants and call himself tall.
mcculley 4y ago
AEB cannot magically instantaneously stop a car that FSD has put into the wrong lane. If you believe otherwise, please do not drive. Cars are dangerous in the hands of those who do not take risks seriously.

tsigo 4y ago

So to be clear, your car almost drove itself into oncoming traffic with your child in it and your first instinct was "Hey, maybe give it two more tries"?

voganmother42 4y ago
Well and you don’t need to go far to find others defending the risk to others as well, “it wouldn’t have gone up the curb if there was a person there”, its interesting to see how cavalier people normally are with making that judgement for others, especially for their offspring
- three_seagrass 4y ago
  Also consumer bias, or "post-purchase rationalization" - i.e. humans overly attribute positivity to goods/services from brands they buy from. Even when it's as bad as throwing you in the wrong lane of traffic.
solardev 4y ago
Anyone can make more kids. Not everyone can do more science!
- twic 4y ago
  -- Cave Johnson
- iab 4y ago
  New life motto, thank you
- f1refly 4y ago
  We've experiments to run / there is research to be done / on the people who are still ali~ive!
- pnut 4y ago
  I know this is a joke, but not everyone can make more kids.

ryandvm 4y ago

[flagged]

yreg 4y ago
~1500 animals died at Neuralink, vast majority of them being rodents. These are not large numbers. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-neuralink-fabricated-headline-idUSL1N32Y1GG https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-neuralink-fabricat...
- pmarreck 4y ago
  This factcheck looks legitimate. “Over 280 sheep, pigs and monkeys” is unfortunately not very specific though.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    It does show that the "3000 monkeys" claim is misinformation since the real number is over an order of magnitude less.
- falcolas 4y ago
  > These are not large numbers. Only when compared to completely different industries, the most commonly cited being education or food. When compared to its own industry, the numbers are still large.
  - yreg 4y ago
    Its own industry being medical research? Perhaps somewhat more important than eating meat or beauty products?
- bearmode 4y ago
  It's a huge number for this sort of research. Huge.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  That article also mentions an ongoing federal investigation into the poor treatment of animals there.

dehrmann 4y ago

Pointing out the obvious, it's extremely negligent for Tesla to have this feature available. It's not even close to ready for general use.

akmarinov 4y ago
And who’s going to stop them? Certainly not the US government. Enjoy beta testing FSD as an unwilling pedestrian.
- kibwen 4y ago
  If I see a Tesla in the wild, I shoot its tires out before it has a chance to strike. That's the American way. (I assume this is why the Cybertruck features bulletproof glass, in case my self-firing gun (now in beta) misidentifies the tires.)
  - dylan604 4y ago
    >Cybertruck I still read this as Cyberduck every. damn. time. >in case my self-firing gun (now in beta) misidentifies the tires.) are you mounting that self-firing gun to a car with FSD? that would make for a great hands free experience.
musha68k 4y ago
The profit motive is so clear in this case, and criminal. Collecting telemetry for free so you get to improve your ever elusive model, literally paid by your “customers” as well as potentially with their (and potentially “collateral”) lives. It’s horrendous.
brandonagr2 4y ago
It's extremely negligent for the driver to let the car drive onto a sidewalk. As the driver you are solely responsible for everything the car does.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Honestly, I feel this way about pretty much all "driver assist" systems in the wild today. That is, I fully understand that to get to Levels 3, 4, and 5, you need to pass through levels 1 and 2 in autonomous driving. But the issue is that I feel like these systems are basically at the "slight drunk teenager" stage, with you as the driver having to ensure they don't mess up too badly. Honestly, unless I can, say, read a book or do something else, these systems (I'm specifically referring to an advanced cruise control/lane keeping system) right now just require me to pay MORE attention and they stress me out more. Fully understand we need folks to help train these systems, but, at least for me, they currently make the driving experience worse.

influxmoment 4y ago
For the Tesla driver assistance specifically (non FSD) it's more advanced and reasonable reliable. I find it helps a great deal to reduce fatigue on long drives. It is nearly flawless on highways and watching to see the car is safe is much less fatiguing than a constant centering and monitoring the accelerator. Seeing the car is the right speed is less mental energy than constant control of power to get the right speed
- roofone 4y ago
  Given the potential consequences of a mistake, it feels like there's still a pretty big difference between "nearly flawless" and flawless. Speed control I'm fine with and is obvs. a mature tech that has been around for decades. Maybe it's the way I drive, but I find lane assist a liability -- especially on curves. More than once the car swerved unexpectedly one way or the other going around a bend. After the 2nd time that happened, I shut it off.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    Lane assist isn't supposed to entirely keep you in the lane on it's own, it's supposed to just help tug you in the right direction as a hint in case you weren't paying perfect attention. It's usually not supposed to steer the car entirely on its own.

bmitc 4y ago

Why give such a company even more of your money though?

sanedigital 4y ago
Because—other than FSD—the car is fantastic. I can't imagine driving anything else.

stickfigure 4y ago

How long ago was that? A friend of mine bought a Model Y and got access to FSD about six months ago. I've spent a fair bit of time in this car in the bay area and... I'm impressed? It doesn't drive like a professional but it feels safe. My friend says it's been improving even in just the time he's had it. So maybe it used to be a lot worse? I'm not in the market for a new car but the next time I am, FSD is going to be a big factor. Even if it's just as good as it is right now.

jsolson 4y ago
If it's anything like the original Autopilot was: yes. I had one of the first Model S vehicles that was autopilot-capable. Early enough that autopilot itself was added later. The early versions were... intense. Not just in the "if you take your hands of the wheel it might try to kill you" intense, but also in the "even using this as adaptive cruise with lane-keeping, sometimes it will suddenly try to veer off the road and murder you" sense. Even when working "as intended" it would routinely dip into exit ramps if you were in the right lane. As a result, I didn't use it all that often, but over not a lot of time it improved pretty dramatically. At this point my wife and I are on newer Model 3s, and our experience with autopilot (not FSD) as a frequently-used driver assist has been... uneventful? Given the _original_ autopilot experience, though, neither of us is particularly eager to try out FSD yet. Autopilot strikes a good balance for us in terms of being a useful second pair of eyes and hands while unambiguously requiring us to drive the damn car.
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
Personally i wouldn't trust FSD with my life until it was battle tested for at-least 10 years.

sam36 4y ago

That sounds really terrible. I honestly thought that Tesla FSD was better than that. It just reminds me of my opinions I had (and still have) like 15+ years ago when I'd get into discussions on random forums about self driving cars. I mean sure, perhaps 100 years down the road when everything driving is required to be in a fully autonomous mode with interlinked wireless communication, maybe perhaps that would work. But that is not what we have right now. Right now every driver on the road is exposed to a potential instant tragedy that is unavoidable. I mean, what is a self driving car going to do if a large semi drops a huge log or freight right in front of you? You have one second to impact. You can either attempt to hold your line and drive over the object, potentially killing/injuring the passengers. Or you can swerve left into oncoming traffic. Or you can swerve right into a busy two way frontage road. No matter which choice is taken, I guarantee there will be a lawsuit. Perhaps one way forward would be perhaps something similar to what medical companies did in the 1980's with the creation of the "vaccine courts". Maybe we need some kind of new "autonomous driving" court which would be staffed with experts who would then decide what kind of cases have merit. That would at least better shield the parent companies and allow them to continue innovating instead of worrying about potential litigation.

adrr 4y ago
It’s fine in 90% of scenarios. Those 10% are scary. Mine tried to pull do a right turn at red light but didn’t properly detect the cross traffic last week. That type of scary. If would be nice if cars talked to each other so it didn’t just have to rely on vision.

sakopov 4y ago

I don't have a Tesla but I do follow FSD development and a few people who test updates on Youtube. It really seems like your experience with FSD will vary depending on where you live. I see a guy testing FSD updates in downtown Seattle and neighboring residential streets where it seems very impressive driving in traffic, one way and narrow streets with cars parked on both sides. But then I also see it do some very bizarre moves in other cities. I don't know how Tesla collects and uses self-driving data but it seems like it's different from location to location.

cactusplant7374 4y ago
> I see a guy testing FSD updates in downtown Seattle In downtown Seattle doesn't it drive into the monorail columns?
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Beauty of frequent updates is no two trips have to be the same. Bonus points for AI models no single human can understand.
chimerasaurus 4y ago
I had two Teslas (3, Y) and used FSD in Seattle. It did not work and based on my experience, I am extremely skeptical it will ever work in places like Seattle. The car could not even navigate circling Greenlake without a disconnect. Sold them at the high of the used car market because, in part, I estimate FSD is a liability for the brand and will, eventually, hurt their resale value. That and Elon Musk. Don't need to support that and won't in the future.

fnordpiglet 4y ago

This was my experience with the beta up until about 3 months ago. Since then it’s remarkably improved.

SpelingBeeChamp 4y ago
I’m glad that you are having a good experience, but FSD reliably and repeatedly tries to stop at green lights on a 50 mph road near me. I’m just happy - sort of - that I didn’t pay for it, and that I’m only able to try it because my new Model S Plaid has been in the shop for service four times in the last three months… (The loaners that I have had three of those four times have all had FSD.) I am reasonably satisfied with Enhanced Autopilot on highways, though it’s unclear to me what, exactly, is ‘enhanced’ about it. And Navigate on Autopilot seems to add nothing of value.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Weird. I’m able to navigate door to door from north east seattle to south west seattle, which if you’ve ever been here is one of the most difficult and screwed up bits of infrastructure on earth. FSD used to stop at green lights very early on in the beta and you had to tap the accelerator to make it not stop, but at some point they dropped that. My FSD doesn’t just do stoplights right but does yields and merging stop signs and traffic circles and other complex decision making road signs. It’s not flawless, especially on the seattle roads where knowing where the road actually is requires human level reasoning most of the time, so it drifts into parts of the road that I know from experience are for parking but the car assumes is just a widened road. Or there a lot of roads with margins that are gravel but are so subtly different from the damaged road surface it thinks that’s part of the road and tries to drift over before it realizes it’s not. These issues are nothing like the unmitigated disaster it used to be, though, and if they can keep the pace they’ve had over the last 6 months up for another 12 months, it’ll be remarkably useful.
- webXL 4y ago
  > FSD reliably and repeatedly tries to stop at green lights on a 50 mph road near me I believe that's a "feature". I had it on a loaner too and it wants you to give it permission to cross the intersection by pressing down on the drive stalk or briefly press the accelerator pedal. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_eu/GUID-A701F7DC-875C-4491-BC84-605A77EA152C.html https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_eu/GUID-A701F7D...

foobarian 4y ago

One problem with this experiment is that, I'm guessing, you monitored the car very closely, ready to take over at any moment, and, in fact, did so in a few cases. But this raises the question, what would have actually happened if you just let the car be? Would it have gotten into accidents? Or maybe it just drives in this alien unfamiliar way but is actually safer?

AlexandrB 4y ago
> Or maybe it just drives in this alien unfamiliar way but is actually safer? As long as the roads are a mixed environment of autonomous and non-autonomous vehicles, driving in an unfamiliar way is by definition unsafe because other road users can't anticipate what your car is going to do. That's not even mentioning pedestrians or cyclists.
rurp 4y ago
Sounds like great questions to answer in a safe controlled test environment before letting it loose on public roadways.

thepasswordis 4y ago

I had a similar experience when I first got FSD. What I realized was just that I was being scared of the computer. It wasnt about to drive into traffic, and it wasnt about to crash into anything or anything like that. What was happening was that I was rightly being overly cautious of the beta program, and taking control as soon as there was really anything other than driving in a straight line on an empty road. Over time, it became a dependable, usable copilot for me. I would massively miss FSD if it was gone.

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linsomniac 4y ago

Tesla Autopilot significantly decreases fatigue on long trips. I have on numerous occasions (I think 10+) driven 2,400 mile trips. You absolutely have to stay aware during the use of Autopilot, but it really helps decrease cognitive load in many instances during a cross country trip.

mentalpiracy 4y ago

Serious question for you: the FSD near-catastrophically failed twice before you got to town. Why did you continue to use FSD as you entered a more populated area?

sanedigital 4y ago
Because it was Sunday morning in Old Town Scottsdale and there weren't any pedestrians around.

GaryNumanVevo 4y ago

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I've got no intention of buying / enabling FSD on my 2020 Model X. I just want a car that I can drive from point A to point B. I'm not even that risk averse, but enabling a beta feature on the road with a bunch of other drivers who barely know what they're doing is a stretch.

kaba0 4y ago

Why even buy from that manufacturer then?