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I want to see the shock on the faces of the people who support legislation like this for the sake of the children. Of course this was going to happen. If it ge

I want to see the shock on the faces of the people who support legislation like this for the sake of the children. Of course this was going to happen. If it gets enough blowback there will be a statement claiming this was a mistake. But people warned everyone, scope creep is real, if you allow governments to restrict access for one reason they'll use it to restrict access for any and every reason. This starts with pornography, then it will be anonymous services to get around the anonymity, eventually it will be "please verify your identity to access internet services".

ChildOfChaos 4y ago
Can't you just verify your age and be done? I don't see the issue, plenty of things end up being blocked, so it seems like this is just something you'd do anyway, it's no big deal.
- FpUser 4y ago
  >"plenty of things end up being blocked" So let's block even more and turn country into China
- glitchc 4y ago
  How do you verify your age without showing some kind of ID?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    Uhm.....you don't? With my provider here in UK(GiffGaff) I had to send them the digits from my passport to have "adult" content unlocked on my sim, it's all blocked by default otherwise. There are several other types of ID you can use for this.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      The solution is to enable full-time VPN, not to provide your ISP with information they have no business collecting.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  > Can't you just verify your age and be done? And how, exactly, would you propose to do that in a way which is privacy-preserving?
  - sofixa 4y ago
    There's at least one standard in the works about such a thing (blind signing) - https://privacypass.github.io/ https://privacypass.github.io/. IIRC there's also an EU proposal for such a thing. Basically you submit your ID to a service (could even be a local app with the biometric IDs we have in the EU, which have NFC) which validates your age on request in a "blind" manner (the service doesn't know what they're validating it for, the what for doesn't know anything beside an "it's OK, they're 18+).
- teamonkey 4y ago
  This doesn't give them any information they didn't already know, phone operators in the UK require at least one form of ID for you to open an account. They already have your details on record, this is just a formality - recording your consent to opt-in. The Snooper's Charter bill is far more dangerous. On the flip side, in the UK a mobile phone bill can also used as proof of identity in many cases.
  - vinay427 4y ago
    > This doesn't give them any information they didn't already know, phone operators in the UK require at least one form of ID for you to open an account. That's not true for many prepaid/PAYG users in the UK. Anyone can still walk into a mobile store or supermarket and buy a PAYG SIM card, which isn't the case in many other European countries. Granted, those still don't support the more unusual features such as eSIM and companion smartwatches, but they're still a valuable choice to have.
grammers 4y ago
Exactly this. I mean it starts with one thing, but in the end we will only be able to use the internet if we link your online identity to our passports and gov will know literally every site we've ever visited.
- gambiting 4y ago
  ....you do realize that's already the reality of living in the UK, right? Your provider has to verify you are over 18 to enable "adult" content on your connection, so your mobile operator has to see some ID or you need to have a valid DD linked to a bank account, and the Snoopers Charter made it so that all operators in this country have to keep your entire browsing history for a full year, and it can be accessed by 17 different government agencies without a warrant. I'm not defending it - I'm just saying that UK is already a surveilance state and the population at large really doesn't care, at least I have never met anything other than "meh" when I brought it up.
  - throwaway8689 4y ago
    Might have to start using a VPN or TOR more often.
  - xNeil 4y ago
    If you're using Private Relay, your ISP won't be able to see what websites you're visiting. Would you still need to verify your identity in that case?
    - gambiting 4y ago
      No you wouldn't. As far as I know VPNs aren't blocked even with the "adult content" filter enabled on your account. So yes you can bypass it if you know what you're doing.
  - Mindwipe 4y ago
    The Online Safety Bill, going through Parliament, is very clear that is not sufficient. Every site on the internet will need to independently take your credit card details or some quack like face recognition app, or make it's content safe for thirteen year olds. And it will achieve nothing, but be a disaster. But this is real. This is before Parliament, right now, and the only opposition is that it's not draconian enough.
warent 4y ago
can someone explain to me in simple terms why governments have constant obsessions with IDing/tracking everyone everywhere all the time?
- tigerlily 4y ago
  Power
- pydry 4y ago
  It seems pretty natural to me. Government is dominated by people who want power and people who want power pretty much always want more power. It's only natural that they don't see themselves as the threat. To them the threat is criminals/terrorists, etc. and sacrificing our civil liberties would typically let them catch one or two more of those.
  - bogle 4y ago
    I can easily agree that the majority want power, sometimes even to do good. The second point, that they don't see themselves as the threat, assigns them with too much of a lack of self-awareness. I believe many in the current ruling party do see themselves as a threat but they hate the woke/immigrants/workers so they're fine with it.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > Government is dominated by people who want power and people who want power pretty much always want more power. And most upper management, CEOs and billionaires never wanted power but aquired it by accident?
    - friend_and_foe 4y ago
      Who said anything about billionaires?
- unsupp0rted 4y ago
  Nobody in the government ever got fired for "erring on the side of caution".
Mindwipe 4y ago
> I want to see the shock on the faces of the people who support legislation like this for the sake of the children. There would be no shock. They intended this.
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  I'm talking about the everyday people. Mothers that don't think past "I don't want my kids seeing porn but I don't want to raise them myself so the government must do something about it." The politicians and the loudest proponents, they know what they're up to.
para_parolu 4y ago
Similar things happened in Russia. Whole traffic control started as “save children” story. Then government expanded it to block any business or political view outside of their control.
hericium 4y ago
I pointed out more than once here, that the pencil pusher who replaced Steve Jobs as head of Apple is doing the same shit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32839035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32839035

ChildOfChaos 4y ago

Can't you just verify your age and be done? I don't see the issue, plenty of things end up being blocked, so it seems like this is just something you'd do anyway, it's no big deal.

FpUser 4y ago
>"plenty of things end up being blocked" So let's block even more and turn country into China
glitchc 4y ago
How do you verify your age without showing some kind of ID?
- gambiting 4y ago
  Uhm.....you don't? With my provider here in UK(GiffGaff) I had to send them the digits from my passport to have "adult" content unlocked on my sim, it's all blocked by default otherwise. There are several other types of ID you can use for this.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    The solution is to enable full-time VPN, not to provide your ISP with information they have no business collecting.
ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
> Can't you just verify your age and be done? And how, exactly, would you propose to do that in a way which is privacy-preserving?
- sofixa 4y ago
  There's at least one standard in the works about such a thing (blind signing) - https://privacypass.github.io/ https://privacypass.github.io/. IIRC there's also an EU proposal for such a thing. Basically you submit your ID to a service (could even be a local app with the biometric IDs we have in the EU, which have NFC) which validates your age on request in a "blind" manner (the service doesn't know what they're validating it for, the what for doesn't know anything beside an "it's OK, they're 18+).
teamonkey 4y ago
This doesn't give them any information they didn't already know, phone operators in the UK require at least one form of ID for you to open an account. They already have your details on record, this is just a formality - recording your consent to opt-in. The Snooper's Charter bill is far more dangerous. On the flip side, in the UK a mobile phone bill can also used as proof of identity in many cases.
- vinay427 4y ago
  > This doesn't give them any information they didn't already know, phone operators in the UK require at least one form of ID for you to open an account. That's not true for many prepaid/PAYG users in the UK. Anyone can still walk into a mobile store or supermarket and buy a PAYG SIM card, which isn't the case in many other European countries. Granted, those still don't support the more unusual features such as eSIM and companion smartwatches, but they're still a valuable choice to have.

grammers 4y ago

Exactly this. I mean it starts with one thing, but in the end we will only be able to use the internet if we link your online identity to our passports and gov will know literally every site we've ever visited.

gambiting 4y ago
....you do realize that's already the reality of living in the UK, right? Your provider has to verify you are over 18 to enable "adult" content on your connection, so your mobile operator has to see some ID or you need to have a valid DD linked to a bank account, and the Snoopers Charter made it so that all operators in this country have to keep your entire browsing history for a full year, and it can be accessed by 17 different government agencies without a warrant. I'm not defending it - I'm just saying that UK is already a surveilance state and the population at large really doesn't care, at least I have never met anything other than "meh" when I brought it up.
- throwaway8689 4y ago
  Might have to start using a VPN or TOR more often.
- xNeil 4y ago
  If you're using Private Relay, your ISP won't be able to see what websites you're visiting. Would you still need to verify your identity in that case?
  - gambiting 4y ago
    No you wouldn't. As far as I know VPNs aren't blocked even with the "adult content" filter enabled on your account. So yes you can bypass it if you know what you're doing.
- Mindwipe 4y ago
  The Online Safety Bill, going through Parliament, is very clear that is not sufficient. Every site on the internet will need to independently take your credit card details or some quack like face recognition app, or make it's content safe for thirteen year olds. And it will achieve nothing, but be a disaster. But this is real. This is before Parliament, right now, and the only opposition is that it's not draconian enough.

warent 4y ago

can someone explain to me in simple terms why governments have constant obsessions with IDing/tracking everyone everywhere all the time?

tigerlily 4y ago
Power
pydry 4y ago
It seems pretty natural to me. Government is dominated by people who want power and people who want power pretty much always want more power. It's only natural that they don't see themselves as the threat. To them the threat is criminals/terrorists, etc. and sacrificing our civil liberties would typically let them catch one or two more of those.
- bogle 4y ago
  I can easily agree that the majority want power, sometimes even to do good. The second point, that they don't see themselves as the threat, assigns them with too much of a lack of self-awareness. I believe many in the current ruling party do see themselves as a threat but they hate the woke/immigrants/workers so they're fine with it.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Government is dominated by people who want power and people who want power pretty much always want more power. And most upper management, CEOs and billionaires never wanted power but aquired it by accident?
  - friend_and_foe 4y ago
    Who said anything about billionaires?
unsupp0rted 4y ago
Nobody in the government ever got fired for "erring on the side of caution".

Mindwipe 4y ago

> I want to see the shock on the faces of the people who support legislation like this for the sake of the children. There would be no shock. They intended this.

friend_and_foe 4y ago
I'm talking about the everyday people. Mothers that don't think past "I don't want my kids seeing porn but I don't want to raise them myself so the government must do something about it." The politicians and the loudest proponents, they know what they're up to.

para_parolu 4y ago

Similar things happened in Russia. Whole traffic control started as “save children” story. Then government expanded it to block any business or political view outside of their control.

hericium 4y ago

I pointed out more than once here, that the pencil pusher who replaced Steve Jobs as head of Apple is doing the same shit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32839035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32839035