4 ms·

If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone inv

If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This is not dissimilar.

stickfigure 4y ago
"For testing purposes, these 10 account numbers should be allowed to remove cash from any of our ATMs. The testers will put the money back." It doesn't sound that nefarious. If you told me this is how ATMs are currently being tested in the industry, I wouldn't be able to contradict you.
- salawat 4y ago
  ...A bench test of an ATM probably doesn't involve real money. No one in finance is stupid enough to use real money on production environments for testing purposes. There is test... And there is PROD. Never do the two meet. Ever. If someone out there does, please make yourself known so we can get the investigators over there ASAP.
  - ragtete 4y ago
    Huh? You're telling me that you think they never test ATMs in prod? That's ridiculous. You think they're just guessing that the test environment perfectly matches the prod environment?
  - malandrew 4y ago
    You can test in production if you have multi-tenancy aware services, where tenancy is some string value like Foo to make sure reads to Foo can only read data that was written to Foo.
    - headsoup 4y ago
      That's not testing in production, that's just the same as saying your test VMWare environment is in the same datacentre as your prod VMWare environment.
- imtringued 4y ago
  That is very nefarious. You can cancel ATM fees but withdrawing unlimited money? Just deposit the money before withdrawing it.
- agentgumshoe 4y ago
  "In production, boss?" I don't think so.
geoduck14 4y ago
>If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This isn't true I worked for a large bank. I managed data for their mortgages. We bought another bank and processed their mortgages with our systems. There were several thousand accounts that we called "friends of the <former CEO>" because they had really weird terms. A noteworthy example is: $10m Home Equity loan, with 2% interest for 40 years, and the owner could refinance any anytime without any fees In English, this means we can't repossess their loan, they pay a super low monthly payment, and the final amount is never really due.
- mertd 4y ago
  I fail to see the equivalence. These are just loans with weirdly favorable terms. If the other bank had shareholders, then this would be a breach of the fiduciary duty. Otherwise it's just bad business? Bad business != fraud.
  - headsoup 4y ago
    Isn't it fraud if you're telling you're customers you don't and can't do this?
    - PeterisP 4y ago
      I'm not sure why would that be fraud - who would be the defrauded party there? Offering wildly different conditions or prices to different customers definitely isn't fraud. The other customers have no standing there, they have no relationship whatsoever that contract between the bank and another customer, they have no legal expectation to get the same conditions or to know what conditions other customers get. If the bank explicitly and intentionally lied that no other customers get so favorable conditions, that might be false advertising but I'm not sure, I'd expect a reasonable court to interpret that a bank "telling your customers you don't and can't do this" is exaggeration/puffery (i.e. permissible) and doesn't have to literally mean that they're not doing that for anyone, it means that they absolutely refuse to do it for you.

stickfigure 4y ago

"For testing purposes, these 10 account numbers should be allowed to remove cash from any of our ATMs. The testers will put the money back." It doesn't sound that nefarious. If you told me this is how ATMs are currently being tested in the industry, I wouldn't be able to contradict you.

salawat 4y ago
...A bench test of an ATM probably doesn't involve real money. No one in finance is stupid enough to use real money on production environments for testing purposes. There is test... And there is PROD. Never do the two meet. Ever. If someone out there does, please make yourself known so we can get the investigators over there ASAP.
- ragtete 4y ago
  Huh? You're telling me that you think they never test ATMs in prod? That's ridiculous. You think they're just guessing that the test environment perfectly matches the prod environment?
- malandrew 4y ago
  You can test in production if you have multi-tenancy aware services, where tenancy is some string value like Foo to make sure reads to Foo can only read data that was written to Foo.
  - headsoup 4y ago
    That's not testing in production, that's just the same as saying your test VMWare environment is in the same datacentre as your prod VMWare environment.
imtringued 4y ago
That is very nefarious. You can cancel ATM fees but withdrawing unlimited money? Just deposit the money before withdrawing it.
agentgumshoe 4y ago
"In production, boss?" I don't think so.

geoduck14 4y ago

>If Jamie Dimon asked a developer at the bank "hey can you have Chase ATMs allow these 10 accounts that are in my name to withdraw unlimited funds?" everyone involved would be in jail. This isn't true I worked for a large bank. I managed data for their mortgages. We bought another bank and processed their mortgages with our systems. There were several thousand accounts that we called "friends of the <former CEO>" because they had really weird terms. A noteworthy example is: $10m Home Equity loan, with 2% interest for 40 years, and the owner could refinance any anytime without any fees In English, this means we can't repossess their loan, they pay a super low monthly payment, and the final amount is never really due.

mertd 4y ago
I fail to see the equivalence. These are just loans with weirdly favorable terms. If the other bank had shareholders, then this would be a breach of the fiduciary duty. Otherwise it's just bad business? Bad business != fraud.
- headsoup 4y ago
  Isn't it fraud if you're telling you're customers you don't and can't do this?
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    I'm not sure why would that be fraud - who would be the defrauded party there? Offering wildly different conditions or prices to different customers definitely isn't fraud. The other customers have no standing there, they have no relationship whatsoever that contract between the bank and another customer, they have no legal expectation to get the same conditions or to know what conditions other customers get. If the bank explicitly and intentionally lied that no other customers get so favorable conditions, that might be false advertising but I'm not sure, I'd expect a reasonable court to interpret that a bank "telling your customers you don't and can't do this" is exaggeration/puffery (i.e. permissible) and doesn't have to literally mean that they're not doing that for anyone, it means that they absolutely refuse to do it for you.