5 ms·

> Wait times for medical care seem surreal. Its due to the governments defunding public healthcare in order to 'strangle it then save it'. You defund it, make

> Wait times for medical care seem surreal. Its due to the governments defunding public healthcare in order to 'strangle it then save it'. You defund it, make people say 'it doesnt work', then say that "We need to privatize it." Its de facto privatization method used since Reagan/Thatcher. Same method is being used in any country that ends up with a 'privatizing' government.

Ygg2 4y ago
No, it isn't. Public health is just difficult to fund. Especially on a shrinking population.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  This is the same conclusion I came to. Many Canadians are now against immigration due to their housing crisis. What they don’t realize is that Canada has been hit with a demographic bomb in the 1970s that other countries are now only starting to experience. Ie without immigration, the retired elderly will soon outnumber working age adults who contribute to the economy and tax revenue They only have two choices now: * increase or keep immigration at the same rate * decrease or eliminate benefits like socialized healthcare and social security
  - adventured 4y ago
    Three. Increase productivity (per capita output), increase taxes, specifically pursue high income society development paths (including on who you allow to immigrate, such that high income immigrants promptly become high tax contributors). Canada is more or less already doing this. They'll likely just have to boost taxation further.
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      You’re not wrong, but increasing productivity is not easy especially in a place that is both highly regulated and highly taxed. Your most productive and talented workers tend to move south due to both the higher pay and lower cost of living. You’re right about the other two either already happening or inevitable.
  - nisegami 4y ago
    More and more, I continue to be shocked that countries in this position didn't end up letting covid run its course. Seems like after some initial difficulties, it could have helped balance their demographics a lot.
    - majani 4y ago
      Guess governments aren't as cynical as some think
    - Retric 4y ago
      Are you actually surprised governments didn’t decided to kill a few million of their own citizens?
      - chaostheory 4y ago
        Didn’t Sweden take this risk? Looking at the data, it seems to have paid off unless I’m reading it wrong
        Retric 4y ago
        No? Sweden had quite a strong COVID response including an entry ban for a while. The government got quiet draconian when cases spiked, but where more targeted than many countries.
      - nisegami 4y ago
        Yes, or at least I was until I remembered those making decisions are mostly older and more at risk of death or issues from contracting covid.
      - unity1001 4y ago
        They did. With not locking down early, claiming that it was 'nothing', not providing them support during the lockdown, then reopening early. All for the sake of the stockmarket and 'the economy'.
- betaby 4y ago
  How's Canada ' a shrinking population'? Canada is a fastest growing developed country, in % of course.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    You’re right, but only for now I’m having trouble finding the original statscan article, but according to their projections even if you drastically increase immigration even higher than it is today Canada will still eventually face a population decline. Immigration only slows down the decline. I can’t help but think that the world is experiencing a more subtle and slow version of Children of Men
- kzvezdarov 4y ago
  Yes it is. I live in Ontario. The provincial (conservative) government literally froze the wages of nurses and other public sector workers in 2019 (see Bill 124), creating a massive exodus of nurses and a severe staff shortage. The provincial government doesn't have money to pay nurses, but it has enough money to build a useless highway (see Highway 413) that just so happens to go through land owned by the Premier's friends and business associates; or to give out millions in license plate rebates just before an election. That's also the same provincial government that intentionally didn't spend about $2.7 billion of federal COVID-19 relief funds (which could have, you know, funded healthcare). Lastly, Canada's population isn't shrinking. It's growing, thanks to a sensible immigration policy (well, mostly sensible; not recognizing the credentials of healthcare professionals is pretty dumb). Public healthcare is only difficult to find when your government's priority is to personally engorge on a gravy train powered by corruption. All of the issues facing the Ontario healthcare system are intentionally self-inflicted.
  - Ygg2 4y ago
    > Yes it is. I live in Ontario. The provincial (conservative) government Sure, just be a socialistic/communist government and be able to finance the pension system while depending on US money (because there isn't any good alternative), once you go too much into debt and deal with IMF, and be sure not to defund important services (like medicine) when they ask you causing bank runs and bankrupcy. Easy, no? Oh, and make sure there is no corruption that would cause funds to be mismanaged.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      > Sure, just be a socialistic/communist government and be able to finance the pension system while depending on US money (because there isn't any good alternative) Why the hell would they depend on US money if they become a socialistic/communist government that channels its GDP to its people instead of channeling it to tax breaks for the rich. > corruption No problem - they can just legalize it under the name 'lobbying' like how US did it.
      - 4y ago
- unity1001 4y ago
  Its not. Its a percentage of GDP. Shrinking populations produce less GDP. But they have less people to support. There is no country in the world where public healtchare is failing without getting DEFUNDED intentionally.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    It is hard if the population is shrinking because the two shrinking parts of the population, children & working adults, are essential for GDP and tax revenue; while the growing numbers of retired seniors just put even more strain on the system. There’s a threshold when taxes get too overwhelming. You’re still down to some major choices: * End immigration and end public benefits like healthcare * Keep immigration and keep healthcare for now. Then pray that someone finds a solution someday to a shrinking population because immigration will only slow it down. * Drastically increase taxes. This isn’t really a viable long term solution because in most places that have a lot of socialized benefits the taxes are already very high.

Ygg2 4y ago

No, it isn't. Public health is just difficult to fund. Especially on a shrinking population.

chaostheory 4y ago
This is the same conclusion I came to. Many Canadians are now against immigration due to their housing crisis. What they don’t realize is that Canada has been hit with a demographic bomb in the 1970s that other countries are now only starting to experience. Ie without immigration, the retired elderly will soon outnumber working age adults who contribute to the economy and tax revenue They only have two choices now: * increase or keep immigration at the same rate * decrease or eliminate benefits like socialized healthcare and social security
- adventured 4y ago
  Three. Increase productivity (per capita output), increase taxes, specifically pursue high income society development paths (including on who you allow to immigrate, such that high income immigrants promptly become high tax contributors). Canada is more or less already doing this. They'll likely just have to boost taxation further.
  - chaostheory 4y ago
    You’re not wrong, but increasing productivity is not easy especially in a place that is both highly regulated and highly taxed. Your most productive and talented workers tend to move south due to both the higher pay and lower cost of living. You’re right about the other two either already happening or inevitable.
- nisegami 4y ago
  More and more, I continue to be shocked that countries in this position didn't end up letting covid run its course. Seems like after some initial difficulties, it could have helped balance their demographics a lot.
  - majani 4y ago
    Guess governments aren't as cynical as some think
  - Retric 4y ago
    Are you actually surprised governments didn’t decided to kill a few million of their own citizens?
    - chaostheory 4y ago
      Didn’t Sweden take this risk? Looking at the data, it seems to have paid off unless I’m reading it wrong
      - Retric 4y ago
        No? Sweden had quite a strong COVID response including an entry ban for a while. The government got quiet draconian when cases spiked, but where more targeted than many countries.
    - nisegami 4y ago
      Yes, or at least I was until I remembered those making decisions are mostly older and more at risk of death or issues from contracting covid.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      They did. With not locking down early, claiming that it was 'nothing', not providing them support during the lockdown, then reopening early. All for the sake of the stockmarket and 'the economy'.
betaby 4y ago
How's Canada ' a shrinking population'? Canada is a fastest growing developed country, in % of course.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  You’re right, but only for now I’m having trouble finding the original statscan article, but according to their projections even if you drastically increase immigration even higher than it is today Canada will still eventually face a population decline. Immigration only slows down the decline. I can’t help but think that the world is experiencing a more subtle and slow version of Children of Men
kzvezdarov 4y ago
Yes it is. I live in Ontario. The provincial (conservative) government literally froze the wages of nurses and other public sector workers in 2019 (see Bill 124), creating a massive exodus of nurses and a severe staff shortage. The provincial government doesn't have money to pay nurses, but it has enough money to build a useless highway (see Highway 413) that just so happens to go through land owned by the Premier's friends and business associates; or to give out millions in license plate rebates just before an election. That's also the same provincial government that intentionally didn't spend about $2.7 billion of federal COVID-19 relief funds (which could have, you know, funded healthcare). Lastly, Canada's population isn't shrinking. It's growing, thanks to a sensible immigration policy (well, mostly sensible; not recognizing the credentials of healthcare professionals is pretty dumb). Public healthcare is only difficult to find when your government's priority is to personally engorge on a gravy train powered by corruption. All of the issues facing the Ontario healthcare system are intentionally self-inflicted.
- Ygg2 4y ago
  > Yes it is. I live in Ontario. The provincial (conservative) government Sure, just be a socialistic/communist government and be able to finance the pension system while depending on US money (because there isn't any good alternative), once you go too much into debt and deal with IMF, and be sure not to defund important services (like medicine) when they ask you causing bank runs and bankrupcy. Easy, no? Oh, and make sure there is no corruption that would cause funds to be mismanaged.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > Sure, just be a socialistic/communist government and be able to finance the pension system while depending on US money (because there isn't any good alternative) Why the hell would they depend on US money if they become a socialistic/communist government that channels its GDP to its people instead of channeling it to tax breaks for the rich. > corruption No problem - they can just legalize it under the name 'lobbying' like how US did it.
    - 4y ago
unity1001 4y ago
Its not. Its a percentage of GDP. Shrinking populations produce less GDP. But they have less people to support. There is no country in the world where public healtchare is failing without getting DEFUNDED intentionally.
- chaostheory 4y ago
  It is hard if the population is shrinking because the two shrinking parts of the population, children & working adults, are essential for GDP and tax revenue; while the growing numbers of retired seniors just put even more strain on the system. There’s a threshold when taxes get too overwhelming. You’re still down to some major choices: * End immigration and end public benefits like healthcare * Keep immigration and keep healthcare for now. Then pray that someone finds a solution someday to a shrinking population because immigration will only slow it down. * Drastically increase taxes. This isn’t really a viable long term solution because in most places that have a lot of socialized benefits the taxes are already very high.