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Every time I see some study anchored in dietary impositions, I can't help but wonder: How have we managed to complicate diet and health so much? We are humans

Every time I see some study anchored in dietary impositions, I can't help but wonder: How have we managed to complicate diet and health so much? We are humans. We are supposed to move. A lot. Eat mostly whole food and move. Walk. Walk uphill. Lift if you can. Run if you can. Buy food in the produce section. Buy food in the meat section (if you eat meat). Buy whole grains. It's not expensive. Maybe it takes time to prepare. Try to find value in that time. Do it with family and friends. There's no food product, diet, or gimmick that's going provide a greater marginal benefit

fedeb95 4y ago
This should be the diet. Let's eat less junk food and we'll be better
hnuser123456 4y ago
And in my case, don't speedrun 100% grubhub for all the 100+ restaurants in the college town
- pushedx 4y ago
  I’m an All Tacos% runner myself
_0w8t 4y ago
Coach potatoes spend approximately the same amount of calories as modern-day hunter-gatherers. The current thinking is that a body has an energy budget to spend. If one does not move, that energy is spent on other things like hormone synthesis. Conversely walking or even running for 5 miles each day will not decrease the weight. So been overweight is really about eating too much. This does not mean that one should not move. That has a lot of benefits, it is just loosing wright is not one of them.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  Except those that regularly take part in physically strenuous activities are often very much aware that excess weight makes those activities much harder (particularly if you're at all competitive), which provides extra motivation for being concerned with what and how much you eat. Anecdata, yes, but everyone I know that was overweight in the past and has now lost it and kept it off has done so by taking up some sort of sport/regular physical activity (mostly cycling). I don't know anyone who's done so just by dieting alone.
  - otikik 4y ago
    Just the opposite from yo: everyone I know who lost weight permanently did so by changing their diet exclusively (no changes on exercise). In fact some of the sports guys gained some weight with sports (lifting, gained muscle)
    - wizofaus 4y ago
      They've typically still lost fat though, even if they've gained weight. I don't know what sort of stats there are comparing those who've lost weight and successfully kept it off (for, say, 10 years or so) via exercise/sports vs via dieting alone, though from what I know it's a pretty low percentage that do manage in the latter group. My understanding is that the initial weight loss is primarily down to diet changes, but exercise works better at helping maintaining a healthier weight/lifestyle.
- algoatecorn 4y ago
  Having more muscle mass increases BMR. Having a higher cardiovascular capacity increases the number of potential calories you can burn per hour. Weight loss strategies that don't include exercise can work, but it is silly to do so. Exercise improves longevity, mental health, and expedites weight loss. All things equal, if you add a 5 mile walk to your daily regiment, you will lose weight faster.
  - dualboot 4y ago
    Cool. Glad that works for you. Not everyone can walk. These discussions are always very "me me me" and rarely of much value.
    - algoatecorn 4y ago
      Over 99% of humans can walk. I don't think that's very "me me me".
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > Over 99% of humans can walk. Clearly not, even before considering particular disability; average age of children first walking is over a year, and the number of children under 1 is well over 1% of world population. More relevant to the discussion, though, in the US, 13.7% of adults have a mobility disability with serious difficulty walking or climbing stairs. [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-disability-impacts-all.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-d....
        algoatecorn 4y ago
        You know what. You are right. This is an excellent critique and I'm quite literally quivering in my boots at the sheer intellectual dominance exuding from your comment. I've learned my lesson and in the future will consider my opinions to be irrelevant and not useful. Please continue enlightening the world with your critical thinking prowess. I look forward to reading your future work.
- mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
  > walking or even running for 5 miles each day will not decrease the weight This is so wrong. Humans have come up with calories as a measurement of how the body burns fuel. Food is the fuel and burning that fuel is spending calories. You can reduce the calories consumed and/or increase movement to burn more. A quick google indicates 1 mile walking is about 100 calories burned for a 180lb person. So walking 5mi is burning roughly 500 calories and if done daily, this would mean 3500 per week which is roughly 1lb of loss. If you replace that 500cal loss per day with 500cal of ice cream then yeah you’re not going to lose weight. So if someone decided to just eat all the same stuff they currently eat but go walk 5mi day they would likely lose weight. Calculating weight loss is mathematically very simple and software devs should be familiar with feedback loops. The simple formula is track calories, weigh yourself, adjust calories for loss, weigh self. Daily tracking works. The LoseIt app does this for you and adjusts calorie budget when you lose weight (less weight means lower budget).
eastbound 4y ago
The root cause for a lot of people is being addicted to the sugar hit. And for a reason: We like to perform. At first for baccalauréat, then for exams, then at work. I need my sugar hit, because I love being a good coder, focussed and in the flow. I love feeling clever. Sugar is a bit like cocaine, if I understand well, in terms of the way it works on dopamine. And our society demands a lot from us. I wish I got into slow living, but I don’t have enough friendships to be happy with less work. Vicious circle ;)
jibe 4y ago
“It's not expensive” Maybe whole grains are not expensive, but the outside walls of a grocery store (produce, meat, eggs, dairy) are very expensive, and have gotten a lot more expensive on the last two years. Especially if you are buying higher end (organic, pasture raised, etc..) stuff. Nuts and seeds, also very expensive right now. Good oils like olive oil also expensive.
- algoatecorn 4y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00588-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00588-7 "The percentage of the population who can afford the least-cost diet adhering to food-based dietary guidelines (henceforth ‘a nutritious diet’) increases from 15% (at the median) in countries with rural and informal food systems to nearly 100% in countries with industrial and consolidated food systems (Fig. 1). We estimate that nearly all residents of industrialized countries and a median of 82% in countries with an emerging and diversifying food system are able to afford a nutritious diet" Besides, the question is relative to what? What percent of your income is worth spending on healthy food? Put a number on it and then we'll talk.
  - jibe 4y ago
    A recommended diet is considered affordable if it does not exceed 63% of the median income 63% of income on food is expensive the question is relative to what Relative to the standard American diet, what you are suggesting is expensive. Processed foods may be bad for you, but they are unarguably cheap calories.
  - johnchristopher 4y ago
    > To assess affordability, the CoRD is constructed by the median cost of the healthy diet compared to median incomes under the assumption that 63% of income is spent on food 11,13 Paper is baed on prices from 2020. 11. Herforth, A. et al. Cost and Affordability of Healthy Diets Across and Within Countries: Background Paper for the State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2020 (FAO, 2020); https://doi.org/10.4060/cb2431en https://doi.org/10.4060/cb2431en Return to ref 11 in article 13. FAO, IFAD, WFP & UNICEF. The State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2020 (FAO, IFAD, UNICEF, WFP and WHO, 2020); https://doi.org/10.4060/ca9692en https://doi.org/10.4060/ca9692en Can free will bend inflation ?
SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
I think this works but only in a vacuum. I’m a single human with a humans natural stressors, getting dopamine from food. Food these days are literally engineered to maximum craving/hunger/whatever, with a bunch of ads and marketing also designed by people with literal lifelong studies of how to get people craving junk. Armies of em. This isn’t even talking about what sort of thing forever chemicals are doing to me. No idea what microplastics in my bloodstream are up to. Im just a dude, my dude. I didn’t make the game so hard.
- algoatecorn 4y ago
  I'm sorry to hear about your loss of free will.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Dude I’m just a guy, I’m not like perfect or anything. I get tired, sleep like crap sometimes, get stressed about money and inflation like everyone else. Sometimes I don’t feel like fighting a whole system with armies of psychologists keeping me a lazy consumer or whatever, so maybe some dinners is something out of a microwave or a can. Condemn me, or whatever, for not being so free willed as others here. I’m just not as enlightened I guess.
    - algoatecorn 4y ago
      No one is perfect. I'm sorry for being snarky, but how else can we make meaningful change without starting with personal responsibility. We can't blame big food for our choices.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
        Im not tying to shift blame, I’m pointing out that this is much less simple than the original poster described. It’s no so simple as just walking more and taking the time to eat whole food precisely because there is a broader system designed to keep people fat consumers that should be seriously and skeptically examined for dodging their influences on society. We know cigarette kept dodging their involvement in getting kids addicted early. We know Perdue was lying about how their opioids worked to guarantee addiction cycles. We know the original nutrition guidelines were originally developed by the agriculture department and that several agribusinesses had their thumbs on the scale to skew what was told to the entire nation on how to eat well. Are those kids who were exposed to cigarettes personally responsible? How about those folks who are addicted to opioids now? And of course all those Americans at the time, they just should’ve decided against following official nutrition guidelines by their government (assuming they can afford to! Poor kids were fed according to these guidelines in school lunches…) And that’s just the stuff we know about!
Rodeoclash 4y ago
We're also fundamentally lazy creatures. Useless expenditure of energy does not promote survival. We're predisposed to do nothing. Couple that with our ability to amuse ourselves with endless entertainment and it's tough to get people moving.
lostmsu 4y ago
> Maybe it takes time to prepare. > Walk. Walk uphill. Lift if you can. Run if you can. AKA waste half of your life to prolong it by 3%
- manigandham 4y ago
  What? Exercise does not take that long, and adds far more than 3%. It also improves the quality of life by 10X compared to not doing it.
  - lostmsu 4y ago
    > It also improves the quality of life by 10X compared to not doing it. This is laughable. > and adds far more than 3% And this is simply not true. The increase is under 4 years, so under 5% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395188/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395188/
    - manigandham 4y ago
      > "Physical activity reduces many major mortality risk factors including arterial hypertension, diabetes mellitus type 2, dyslipidemia, coronary heart disease, stroke, and cancer." That's a lot more than just a few number of years. > "This is laughable." Really? Exercise is linked to decreased stress, increased stamina, clarity, and general well-being. Being physical and mentally capable and competent into older age is a good thing and a major improvement in quality of life. Not sure how this is "laughable".
      - lostmsu 4y ago
        > That's a lot more than just a few number of years. No, the number of years is listed in the study. Your implication that reduced risk has any other impact is baseless. > Really? Exercise is linked to decreased stress, increased stamina, clarity, and general well-being. Being physical and mentally capable and competent into older age is a good thing and a major improvement in quality of life. Not sure how this is "laughable". You should check your clarity already, you seem to be deluded by "common sense". From: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22368221/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22368221/ > While there is an association between some indicators of PA and IQ, there was no consistent evidence that higher PA levels might lead to increased IQ scores.
agumonkey 4y ago
I'm a bit in that bag. If you listen to doctors about how to live well, it's all stupid stuff: - move - eat fresh, few and varied - be around people or pets - sleep well Now I'm not against filling in some gaps in case nature misses a spot (improving low level things like mitochondial health) ..

fedeb95 4y ago

This should be the diet. Let's eat less junk food and we'll be better

hnuser123456 4y ago

And in my case, don't speedrun 100% grubhub for all the 100+ restaurants in the college town

pushedx 4y ago
I’m an All Tacos% runner myself

_0w8t 4y ago

Coach potatoes spend approximately the same amount of calories as modern-day hunter-gatherers. The current thinking is that a body has an energy budget to spend. If one does not move, that energy is spent on other things like hormone synthesis. Conversely walking or even running for 5 miles each day will not decrease the weight. So been overweight is really about eating too much. This does not mean that one should not move. That has a lot of benefits, it is just loosing wright is not one of them.

wizofaus 4y ago
Except those that regularly take part in physically strenuous activities are often very much aware that excess weight makes those activities much harder (particularly if you're at all competitive), which provides extra motivation for being concerned with what and how much you eat. Anecdata, yes, but everyone I know that was overweight in the past and has now lost it and kept it off has done so by taking up some sort of sport/regular physical activity (mostly cycling). I don't know anyone who's done so just by dieting alone.
- otikik 4y ago
  Just the opposite from yo: everyone I know who lost weight permanently did so by changing their diet exclusively (no changes on exercise). In fact some of the sports guys gained some weight with sports (lifting, gained muscle)
  - wizofaus 4y ago
    They've typically still lost fat though, even if they've gained weight. I don't know what sort of stats there are comparing those who've lost weight and successfully kept it off (for, say, 10 years or so) via exercise/sports vs via dieting alone, though from what I know it's a pretty low percentage that do manage in the latter group. My understanding is that the initial weight loss is primarily down to diet changes, but exercise works better at helping maintaining a healthier weight/lifestyle.
algoatecorn 4y ago
Having more muscle mass increases BMR. Having a higher cardiovascular capacity increases the number of potential calories you can burn per hour. Weight loss strategies that don't include exercise can work, but it is silly to do so. Exercise improves longevity, mental health, and expedites weight loss. All things equal, if you add a 5 mile walk to your daily regiment, you will lose weight faster.
- dualboot 4y ago
  Cool. Glad that works for you. Not everyone can walk. These discussions are always very "me me me" and rarely of much value.
  - algoatecorn 4y ago
    Over 99% of humans can walk. I don't think that's very "me me me".
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Over 99% of humans can walk. Clearly not, even before considering particular disability; average age of children first walking is over a year, and the number of children under 1 is well over 1% of world population. More relevant to the discussion, though, in the US, 13.7% of adults have a mobility disability with serious difficulty walking or climbing stairs. [0] [0] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-disability-impacts-all.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-d....
      - algoatecorn 4y ago
        You know what. You are right. This is an excellent critique and I'm quite literally quivering in my boots at the sheer intellectual dominance exuding from your comment. I've learned my lesson and in the future will consider my opinions to be irrelevant and not useful. Please continue enlightening the world with your critical thinking prowess. I look forward to reading your future work.
mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
> walking or even running for 5 miles each day will not decrease the weight This is so wrong. Humans have come up with calories as a measurement of how the body burns fuel. Food is the fuel and burning that fuel is spending calories. You can reduce the calories consumed and/or increase movement to burn more. A quick google indicates 1 mile walking is about 100 calories burned for a 180lb person. So walking 5mi is burning roughly 500 calories and if done daily, this would mean 3500 per week which is roughly 1lb of loss. If you replace that 500cal loss per day with 500cal of ice cream then yeah you’re not going to lose weight. So if someone decided to just eat all the same stuff they currently eat but go walk 5mi day they would likely lose weight. Calculating weight loss is mathematically very simple and software devs should be familiar with feedback loops. The simple formula is track calories, weigh yourself, adjust calories for loss, weigh self. Daily tracking works. The LoseIt app does this for you and adjusts calorie budget when you lose weight (less weight means lower budget).

eastbound 4y ago

The root cause for a lot of people is being addicted to the sugar hit. And for a reason: We like to perform. At first for baccalauréat, then for exams, then at work. I need my sugar hit, because I love being a good coder, focussed and in the flow. I love feeling clever. Sugar is a bit like cocaine, if I understand well, in terms of the way it works on dopamine. And our society demands a lot from us. I wish I got into slow living, but I don’t have enough friendships to be happy with less work. Vicious circle ;)

jibe 4y ago

“It's not expensive” Maybe whole grains are not expensive, but the outside walls of a grocery store (produce, meat, eggs, dairy) are very expensive, and have gotten a lot more expensive on the last two years. Especially if you are buying higher end (organic, pasture raised, etc..) stuff. Nuts and seeds, also very expensive right now. Good oils like olive oil also expensive.

algoatecorn 4y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00588-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-022-00588-7 "The percentage of the population who can afford the least-cost diet adhering to food-based dietary guidelines (henceforth ‘a nutritious diet’) increases from 15% (at the median) in countries with rural and informal food systems to nearly 100% in countries with industrial and consolidated food systems (Fig. 1). We estimate that nearly all residents of industrialized countries and a median of 82% in countries with an emerging and diversifying food system are able to afford a nutritious diet" Besides, the question is relative to what? What percent of your income is worth spending on healthy food? Put a number on it and then we'll talk.
- jibe 4y ago
  A recommended diet is considered affordable if it does not exceed 63% of the median income 63% of income on food is expensive the question is relative to what Relative to the standard American diet, what you are suggesting is expensive. Processed foods may be bad for you, but they are unarguably cheap calories.
- johnchristopher 4y ago
  > To assess affordability, the CoRD is constructed by the median cost of the healthy diet compared to median incomes under the assumption that 63% of income is spent on food 11,13 Paper is baed on prices from 2020. 11. Herforth, A. et al. Cost and Affordability of Healthy Diets Across and Within Countries: Background Paper for the State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2020 (FAO, 2020); https://doi.org/10.4060/cb2431en https://doi.org/10.4060/cb2431en Return to ref 11 in article 13. FAO, IFAD, WFP & UNICEF. The State of Food Security and Nutrition in the World 2020 (FAO, IFAD, UNICEF, WFP and WHO, 2020); https://doi.org/10.4060/ca9692en https://doi.org/10.4060/ca9692en Can free will bend inflation ?

SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago

I think this works but only in a vacuum. I’m a single human with a humans natural stressors, getting dopamine from food. Food these days are literally engineered to maximum craving/hunger/whatever, with a bunch of ads and marketing also designed by people with literal lifelong studies of how to get people craving junk. Armies of em. This isn’t even talking about what sort of thing forever chemicals are doing to me. No idea what microplastics in my bloodstream are up to. Im just a dude, my dude. I didn’t make the game so hard.

algoatecorn 4y ago
I'm sorry to hear about your loss of free will.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Dude I’m just a guy, I’m not like perfect or anything. I get tired, sleep like crap sometimes, get stressed about money and inflation like everyone else. Sometimes I don’t feel like fighting a whole system with armies of psychologists keeping me a lazy consumer or whatever, so maybe some dinners is something out of a microwave or a can. Condemn me, or whatever, for not being so free willed as others here. I’m just not as enlightened I guess.
  - algoatecorn 4y ago
    No one is perfect. I'm sorry for being snarky, but how else can we make meaningful change without starting with personal responsibility. We can't blame big food for our choices.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
      Im not tying to shift blame, I’m pointing out that this is much less simple than the original poster described. It’s no so simple as just walking more and taking the time to eat whole food precisely because there is a broader system designed to keep people fat consumers that should be seriously and skeptically examined for dodging their influences on society. We know cigarette kept dodging their involvement in getting kids addicted early. We know Perdue was lying about how their opioids worked to guarantee addiction cycles. We know the original nutrition guidelines were originally developed by the agriculture department and that several agribusinesses had their thumbs on the scale to skew what was told to the entire nation on how to eat well. Are those kids who were exposed to cigarettes personally responsible? How about those folks who are addicted to opioids now? And of course all those Americans at the time, they just should’ve decided against following official nutrition guidelines by their government (assuming they can afford to! Poor kids were fed according to these guidelines in school lunches…) And that’s just the stuff we know about!

Rodeoclash 4y ago

We're also fundamentally lazy creatures. Useless expenditure of energy does not promote survival. We're predisposed to do nothing. Couple that with our ability to amuse ourselves with endless entertainment and it's tough to get people moving.

lostmsu 4y ago

> Maybe it takes time to prepare. > Walk. Walk uphill. Lift if you can. Run if you can. AKA waste half of your life to prolong it by 3%

manigandham 4y ago
What? Exercise does not take that long, and adds far more than 3%. It also improves the quality of life by 10X compared to not doing it.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  > It also improves the quality of life by 10X compared to not doing it. This is laughable. > and adds far more than 3% And this is simply not true. The increase is under 4 years, so under 5% https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395188/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3395188/
  - manigandham 4y ago
    > "Physical activity reduces many major mortality risk factors including arterial hypertension, diabetes mellitus type 2, dyslipidemia, coronary heart disease, stroke, and cancer." That's a lot more than just a few number of years. > "This is laughable." Really? Exercise is linked to decreased stress, increased stamina, clarity, and general well-being. Being physical and mentally capable and competent into older age is a good thing and a major improvement in quality of life. Not sure how this is "laughable".
    - lostmsu 4y ago
      > That's a lot more than just a few number of years. No, the number of years is listed in the study. Your implication that reduced risk has any other impact is baseless. > Really? Exercise is linked to decreased stress, increased stamina, clarity, and general well-being. Being physical and mentally capable and competent into older age is a good thing and a major improvement in quality of life. Not sure how this is "laughable". You should check your clarity already, you seem to be deluded by "common sense". From: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22368221/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22368221/ > While there is an association between some indicators of PA and IQ, there was no consistent evidence that higher PA levels might lead to increased IQ scores.

agumonkey 4y ago

I'm a bit in that bag. If you listen to doctors about how to live well, it's all stupid stuff: - move - eat fresh, few and varied - be around people or pets - sleep well Now I'm not against filling in some gaps in case nature misses a spot (improving low level things like mitochondial health) ..