8 ms·

Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? I'm really hoping this doesn't become a reality because if it does, we will end up

• varispeed 4y ago
  State run apps that are designed to "nudge" and manipulate population at a large scale, should be classified as weapons and banned. This is not a regular app, but part of information warfare China is engaged in with the West.
  • zolosa 4y ago
    Hope the third world countries understand this and ban Twitter and Meta apps.
  • mrtksn 4y ago
    The US is known for involvement in the policies of other nations and even organising coups etc. With documented access of the American government into the American tech giants, I don't have reason to believe that Instagram is any different than TikTok. What makes you think that CIA didn't infiltrate Meta or made a deal to manipulate political situation in its friends and foes? What makes you believe that they won't work with Musk to achieve their goals? The TikTok situation is new for the USA but it's nothing new for the rest of the world.
    • elmomle 4y ago
      Yes, and the CCP has banned Instagram and Facebook because they understand that those are ultimately tools for subtly shaping mass opinion, regardless of whether it's clear that they're used for that purpose. Why would the US not do the same with TikTok?
      • Zak 4y ago
        I don't think that's quite true. The CCP banned communication platforms it couldn't censor before there were algorithmic feeds.
      • dtjb 4y ago
        > Why would the US not do the same with TikTok? Millions (?) of Americans have freely chosen to receive and interact with the app, wouldn't their freedom of speech allow them to enjoy the content they choose?
        • goosesanta 4y ago
          But they're not choosing the content. Algorithm -> Tiktok -> China -> Communist party is.
          • dtjb 4y ago
            Who specifically is in charge of the algorithm at Twitter? Keep in mind the recent foreign interest financing and editorial changes. How are we certain they have our best American Interests™ at heart? I'm not trying to play the whatabout card, I'm trying to understand how we would legally articulate what TikTok has done to justify banning by congressional decree. The senate bill [1] doesn't appear to have any measurements or values or clarifications, it's just a few paltry pages that never specify what line TikTok crossed. The only argument I'm hearing is China=Bad. And who knows, maybe China is nefariously manipulating the TikTok algorithm, but for the US government to step in and say "these ideas are too dangerous, you can not access them," seems like the cure is as bad as the disease. It's using blatant authoritarianism to try to stop the spread of potential authoritarianism. [1] https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/1ebac814-157e-4e26-81b9-d9aa3fd96ae3/5861AFCCFDC5254BAFEE5BB2BDA54B32.hey22c36.pdf https://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/1ebac814-15...
        • blsapologist42 4y ago
          Freedom of speech doesn't mean consuming content. Indeed there appears to be no such right in the constitution. The only protections would be for the publisher of the content, so I suppose Bytedance could challenge this law on free speech grounds.
    • adamdusty 4y ago
      If other countries feel that way, they should probably ban Instagram. In my opinion, the difference is that insta (Meta) controls US government more than the government controls insta. I don't believe that's the case with tik tok and the CCP.
      • aluminussoma 4y ago
        If Meta controlled the US Government, TikTok would have been banned years ago!
    • _-david-_ 4y ago
      >The US is known for involvement in the policies of other nations and even organising coups etc If they don't like that they should be free to ban social media being used in that way.
    • stale2002 4y ago
      [flagged]
    • dr-detroit 4y ago
    • varispeed 4y ago
      "Yes, the US was / is doing bad things, so other countries should be allowed to do bad things too!"
      • mrtksn 4y ago
        Strawman argument.
  • didibus 4y ago
    What doesn't make it a regular app? It's similar looking to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and others to me?
  • Kukumber 4y ago
    With that logic the EU should ban Facebook/Instagram/Reddit/Twitter Legislation how data is acquired/stored/used will solve every problems, banning the people you don't like only solve one specific problem and makes you look like a fool The US built a monopoly on online social media and communications, this move is another evidence that it wants to remain the sole big eye https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-cia-and-nsa-research-grants-for-mass-surveillance https://qz.com/1145669/googles-true-origin-partly-lies-in-ci... https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-international-bank-transactions-a-922430.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies...
  • throwaway4good 4y ago
    This is true! But also much worse; agents from the CCP appears to have infiltrated Google and META and have injected primitive versions of TikTok into both the YouTube app and the Instagram app. No one is safe and the communist conspiracy reaches the highest level!
  • moomin 4y ago
    My question for you: why stop at state-run ones?
• 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Why not both? It's harder to write, agree on, and pass the regulation that you suggest.
  • noahtallen 4y ago
    It is hard to imagine this ever passing given how popular TikTok is in the US. Certainly strong privacy regulations are more popular among the people than banning apps.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
      I think the fact that so many people use TikTok shows how little the average voter cares about privacy.
    • blsapologist42 4y ago
      The vast majority of users are in the <25 demographic, which means they basically don't vote. Also only a minority of Americans even use TikTok. It could easily be more popular to ban it (I have no data though).
• philjohn 4y ago
  US Tech firms products are largely banned in China, closing off a market of 1bn+ - why should Chinese firms have unfettered access to the US?
  • misnome 4y ago
    Because the US isn't China?
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  • mrtksn 4y ago
    Because China is not a good example to follow. It is a dystopian state with full control of what their citizens have access to. Why would you want to have your government to choose the apps for you?
    • uoaei 4y ago
      The world is composed of shades of grey.
      • mrtksn 4y ago
        What shade of Pantone gray is the US government curating the AppStore?
        • eternalban 4y ago
          The shade that comes with shiny black boots happily goosestepping down Constitution Avenue NW.
          • mardifoufs 4y ago
            What does that even mean? You think tiktok will lead to Chinese invasion? What a complete hyperbole, might as well restrict every civil liberty then since they will obviously all help our future Chinese invaders! Maybe I didn't understand your comment though.
• geraldwhen 4y ago
  China would not comply with the regulations. They would claim to and continuously violate them.
  • lesuorac 4y ago
    And then those Chinese companies would just be banned. See Hawaui/ZTE/etc
• throwaway4good 4y ago
  TikTok already stores its data in the US and gives the US authorities full access to it.
  • deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  • boston_clone 4y ago
    i think the bigger issue is things like this: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-...
  • JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > TikTok already stores its data in the US and gives the US authorities full access to it A courtesy also extended to Beijing [1]. [1] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access?scrolla=5eb6d68b7fedc32c19ef33b4 https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-...
    • three_seagrass 4y ago
      Did you read the article? ByteDance's headquarters is in Beijing and these leaked audio tapes are talking about engineers in the headquarters logging into U.S. servers. This isn't some smoking gun about CCP surveillance, but more about how the sausage is made for a global app.
• yalogin 4y ago
  I agree with the overall sentiment. If it's a country in the EU it's valid. In China though, no one has any control or say on systems and controls. You cannot enforce anything there. Even if you force all servers catering to US citizen must be in the US, how do you even enforce that the data is not going to the CCP machinery? When there is a system (CCP) that the government feels is a threat, how do you convince them that the proper controls are in place? That is not a winning battle. It will just be an exercise in covering over the topic.
• medellin 4y ago
  They should ban tiktok. Why should we play nice when China continues to not allow US companies to have any real market share in China.
• maria2 4y ago
  This has nothing to do with user data. People are influenced by the content they see on social media. Allowing a foreign adversary to run the main information network for an entire generation of the population is not a wise move.
  • dtjb 4y ago
    What is a "main information network?" Are websites ok? Podcasts?
    • boomchinolo78 4y ago
      I don't think you realize how widespread Tiktok usage is. I can reliably predict what Tiktok users will talk about in social events just by a few minutes of browsing that week's top.
      • deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      • dtjb 4y ago
        What line has TikTok crossed, specifically? Is it just the content? Global reach? Data governance? User count? I too can predict conversation topics based on what's trending in Twitter. But Twitter is now owned (in part) by investors representing foreign interests, including KSA [1]. Recent editorial changes at Twitter have amplified "unamerican" rhetoric [2]. Does Twitter cross the same lines as TikTok? Any "solution" that bans TikTok would leave behind a far-reaching precedent, one that is completely ineffective at dealing with the core problem. Trying to stand up a virtual iron curtain won't sit well with an american userbase that's accustomed to choosing the content they want. Also, if there's one thing you can do to make young people more captivated and curious about something - make it forbidden. [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/28/saudis-kingdom-holding-company-to-maintain-twitter-stake https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/28/saudis-kingdom-hol... [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zm9q/elon-musk-twitter-nazis-white-supremacy https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7zm9q/elon-musk-twitter-naz...
      • 4y ago
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• spamizbad 4y ago
  SV failed to build social media products that appeal to Gen-Z so this is the "plan B". The only reason why TikTok is getting banned is because its popular. And the only reason why its popular is because US-based entrepreneurs seem to struggle building products that connect with users under the age of 30. The irony is there was a product, Vine, that filled this niche but it was ultimately killed by Facebook (who promoted Tiktok because they didn't want Vine making inroads with their users) and Twitter (by not developing it further).
  • gardenhedge 4y ago
    How did FB promote TikTok?
  • mensetmanusman 4y ago
    No, it’s because it’s from China which bans US tech platforms. If this came from the EU or SK there would be no discussion on this in Congress.
    • three_seagrass 4y ago
      China doesn't ban US tech that obeys the CCP's surveillance laws, like Apple does. This targeting of tiktok is pretty specific by US government, because it singles out a company rather than act as a law.
      • mensetmanusman 4y ago
        Therefore the US is free to pass laws that make TikTok illegal by your own reasoning.
        • three_seagrass 4y ago
          Please elaborate on how a law banning a single company is the same as a law that allow companies to comply.
          • 4y ago
• rvz 4y ago
  > Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? That is also a good idea and the US can do that too. In the past, Facebook got a multi-billion dollar fine from the FTC for violating user privacy. The exact same should happen and apply to all social networks worth over $1BN and repeat violations should be in the billions of dollars; not in the millions that the EU is doing. If that is enough for them to stop these privacy violating operations or even better, to make them leave like what the EU is doing, rather that than companies worse than Facebook to continue their repeated invasive privacy violations just like TikTok.
• stale2002 4y ago
  Because this is a matter of national security, that's why. Yes, we can treat foreign companies differently than local companies, on the issue of data privacy, because of these national security concerns.
  • ashwagary 4y ago
    Totalitarian governance introduced in the name of national security. It's pretty wild how fast Americans move to shred the constitution if scared by a boogyman, real or otherwise.
• CodeArtisan 4y ago
  Internet is already partitioned, especially when it come to China (Great firewall). You say to do like EU but it made things worse; For example, this is what i get when i try to browse yahoo.co.jp: https://abload.de/img/screenshot2022-12-13aa4exy.png https://abload.de/img/screenshot2022-12-13aa4exy.png NY Daily news: https://abload.de/img/nydailynews-wearecurrlwd3x.png https://abload.de/img/nydailynews-wearecurrlwd3x.png
  • mrtksn 4y ago
    Not serving a country because you can’t be bothered to comply with their data laws is completely different from banning your people from accessing foreign media products simply because they are foreign of the wrong kind.
• jonathankoren 4y ago
  Data storage regulations are boring poindexter. We need lines like, “TikTok is digital fentanyl.”
  • 1attice 4y ago
    Language like this exaggerates individual-user harms of TikTok by comparison to lethal street drug, conflating them with public, national-interest harms. This is disingenous, as reported by common-sense. For example, my city does not have sidewalks lined with tents full of TikTok users, but the same cannot be said of the comparand. This has either or both of the following knock-on effects: - Undermine trust in the speaker for people who feel the 'seam' in the analogy. American institutions are really good at undermining themselves in this way. Remember DARE? It took me years to trust any authority again after hearing their nonsense about cannabis, back in the nineties. They used to call it things like "herbal heroin", etc. - Promote stigmatization of TikTok users, and social-media users more generally. It's like taking the Smudge Tool in photoshop and moving some of the stigma from fentanyl to TikTok. This will have the unintended effect of further isolating people who depend on social media because they are disabled and/or shut-in; socially isolated; physically isolated; LGBTQ; autistic; etc. You aren't accessing community now, you're ~high on fentanyl~. Like. American politicians love lines like this because they feel good in the short term but contribute to the ruin of polity in the longer run. Which is why these quips are the proper analog of fentanyl.
    • jonathankoren 4y ago
      Mix in the fact that you can't die by simply walking past fentanyl or even touching it like the copaganda says, and you're on to something.
    • blsapologist42 4y ago
      It could certainly be true that a modest harm to 80 million people is comparable to a serious harm to a smaller number. Of course fentanyl is pretty clearly a more serious issue but I think it's plausible they are in the same ballpark.
• chaostheory 4y ago
  We already had a partitioned internet for years now Imo this legislation makes sense because our companies are more or less banned from entering China’s domestic market. Why should we allow their tech companies in when they’ve banned ours
• seydor 4y ago
  Because the americans are smarter with eliminating competitors Huawei - ban TikTok - ban EVs - subsidize tesla
  • kube-system 4y ago
    China heavily subsidizes industry. The reason they can't compete on EVs is just because they don't make anything that would be viable on the US market. They make a HUGE number of EVs, but they're primarily for the domestic market. Almost half of the EVs in the world are in China.
• quadcore 4y ago
  Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? I guess in practice, if need be economically and politically, you can always launder data.
• Analemma_ 4y ago
  Partitioned Internet is a foregone conclusion. There was no way that sovereign states were ever going to permanently allow the uninhibited cross-border exchange that characterized the early Internet before anyone was paying attention. It was just a question of when they caught up.
• MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > Why not regulate how the data is used or stored, like the EU does, but ban? What's the worst thing Bytedance / China can do with the average amount of "US citizen/TikTok user" data they have?
• blsapologist42 4y ago
  How exactly would the US enforce any such regulation? It seems obvious that Bytedance simply would ignore it.