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In science fiction they were talking about nuclear powered trains. Its kind of a shame that never happened. Alas, the real world is more complicated than our be

by csours 4y ago

In science fiction they were talking about nuclear powered trains. Its kind of a shame that never happened. Alas, the real world is more complicated than our beautiful stories. Also, in a way, there are nuclear powered trains, just the power is delivered via electrical lines.

bombcar 4y ago
If you read the Donald Duck/Uncle Scrooge comics from the early 50s everything is "atomic" or "uranium" - clearly it was a very forward-looking time, and not unreasonably so.
nradov 4y ago
In a similar way we will eventually have nuclear powered aircraft and cargo ships. Power and heat from nuclear plants on land will be used to manufacture synthetic liquid fuels.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Synthetic fuels need an energy price of about $1/MWh to be competitive. Intermittent solar will be that price in a few years, I doubt that nuclear will ever hit that price.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    I'm probably missing something, but why $1/MWhr? That's far cheaper than gasoline or residential electricity.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Because it takes a lot of energy to make synthetic jet fuel from nothing.
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        Why does that matter? Anyone with a brain would design a process to start with something better than nothing energy content, perhaps biomass or plastic.
        bombcar 4y ago
        We know how to make synthetic fuel, and right now you either need "real" fuel to go way up in price, or you need $1/mw energy. It's not literally "made from nothing" but it's not made from petroleum products.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      If you want to sell synthetic gasoline at $4/gallon and make a profit, $1/MWh or so electricity enables that.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Perhaps, but fuel synthesis processes usually have to run continuously. They can't really start and stop intermittently based on momentary solar power availability. Those plants will represent huge capital investments, the workers will have to be scheduled in advance, and they'll have to make fixed delivery commitments to customers. Some form of carbon tax on fossil fuels might make this more economically viable.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      Heat is an input to these processes, so restarting is expensive. That cost has to be weighed against the increased cost of continuous electricity. > start and stop intermittently Solar & wind electricity is actually fairly predictable, based on the weather forecast. You don't know what it's going to be next week, but you do have a good idea what it's going to be in an hour. That helps a lot. > fixed delivery commitments to customers Maybe in the future, but that's definitely not an issue at the moment because excess production can always be sold without the green premium.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
  Along the same line of thinking though, they are nuclear powered already. The fossil fuels owe their energy to the sun which is nuclear powered. I think nuclear powered should be used to something that has a nuclear reactor on board directly supplying power.
  - maria2 4y ago
    Nuclear usually refers to nuclear fission. Fossil fuels are not the product of nuclear fission. Even if they were, saying that things powered by fossil fuels are nuclear powered is just a terrible take.
jabl 4y ago
There were actually plans for nuclear powered locomotives in the 1950'ies. E.g. the X-12 by Lyle Borst. See e.g. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA78&ots=oNcGmhCvuD&dq=x-12+locomotive&pg=PA78&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q=x-12%20locomotive&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA78&ot...

by csours 4y ago

bombcar 4y ago

If you read the Donald Duck/Uncle Scrooge comics from the early 50s everything is "atomic" or "uranium" - clearly it was a very forward-looking time, and not unreasonably so.

nradov 4y ago

In a similar way we will eventually have nuclear powered aircraft and cargo ships. Power and heat from nuclear plants on land will be used to manufacture synthetic liquid fuels.

bryanlarsen 4y ago
Synthetic fuels need an energy price of about $1/MWh to be competitive. Intermittent solar will be that price in a few years, I doubt that nuclear will ever hit that price.
- BenjiWiebe 4y ago
  I'm probably missing something, but why $1/MWhr? That's far cheaper than gasoline or residential electricity.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Because it takes a lot of energy to make synthetic jet fuel from nothing.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      Why does that matter? Anyone with a brain would design a process to start with something better than nothing energy content, perhaps biomass or plastic.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        We know how to make synthetic fuel, and right now you either need "real" fuel to go way up in price, or you need $1/mw energy. It's not literally "made from nothing" but it's not made from petroleum products.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    If you want to sell synthetic gasoline at $4/gallon and make a profit, $1/MWh or so electricity enables that.
- nradov 4y ago
  Perhaps, but fuel synthesis processes usually have to run continuously. They can't really start and stop intermittently based on momentary solar power availability. Those plants will represent huge capital investments, the workers will have to be scheduled in advance, and they'll have to make fixed delivery commitments to customers. Some form of carbon tax on fossil fuels might make this more economically viable.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    Heat is an input to these processes, so restarting is expensive. That cost has to be weighed against the increased cost of continuous electricity. > start and stop intermittently Solar & wind electricity is actually fairly predictable, based on the weather forecast. You don't know what it's going to be next week, but you do have a good idea what it's going to be in an hour. That helps a lot. > fixed delivery commitments to customers Maybe in the future, but that's definitely not an issue at the moment because excess production can always be sold without the green premium.
RcouF1uZ4gsC 4y ago
Along the same line of thinking though, they are nuclear powered already. The fossil fuels owe their energy to the sun which is nuclear powered. I think nuclear powered should be used to something that has a nuclear reactor on board directly supplying power.
- maria2 4y ago
  Nuclear usually refers to nuclear fission. Fossil fuels are not the product of nuclear fission. Even if they were, saying that things powered by fossil fuels are nuclear powered is just a terrible take.

jabl 4y ago

There were actually plans for nuclear powered locomotives in the 1950'ies. E.g. the X-12 by Lyle Borst. See e.g. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA78&ots=oNcGmhCvuD&dq=x-12+locomotive&pg=PA78&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q=x-12%20locomotive&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=bVMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA78&ot...