7 ms·

Avenger controller company pisses off gaming community with bad customer support

271 points by jamesmoss 15y ago

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
frou_dh 15y ago
The takeaway seems to be don't let a raging idiot near customers in the first place. There's a second documented encounter with the guy from 6 months ago: http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service
- rapind 15y ago
  That's incredible. You have to wonder if they even checked into him first with a simple google let alone reference checks.
- TezzellEnt 15y ago
  Paul Christoforo should never be in charge of a customer facing position. Maybe he should take the advice on (his) Ocean Marketing's front page: "Your brand is no stronger than your reputation - and will increasingly depend on what comes up when you are Googled." I wonder what will come up after all this is over.
  - drzaiusapelord 15y ago
    I picture Paul like a real life Tom Haverford from Parks. The "you got told bitch" line is pure Tom.
- obiterdictum 15y ago
  This remnids me of a story last year about an online retailer who was deliberately rude to his customers to get bad press, because it improved his search engine ratings. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?pag...
  - desigooner 15y ago
    Borker was also arrested later by NYPD.
manuscreationis 15y ago
At the risk of taking a potentially unpopular opinion on the subject, I don't think either one of those people come out looking too good. I'm all for doing the whole "CC your formal complaint letter to several outlets in hopes that someone will take notice" approach; My brother taught me about doing this when I was a little kid. He would write letters (this was before the advent of the internet) and note on the bottom that they had been CCd to various local news outlets, as well as the better business bureau (regardless of whether or not he actually sent those additional letters). And almost always, it worked. But I would be absolutely embarrassed to have my name attached to his complaint that got sent around. He is understandably, and in some cases justifiably, upset by the companies lack of communication and flippant nature, but this is no time to get into a pissing match. He chose to stoop to the guys level with name calling and taunting: Welcome to the internet bitch? Thats how I roll? It sounds like something you'd see on a meme, not something you want to end a complaint letter with. That said, the guy on Oceans end is clearly the winner when it comes to idiotic behavior, as he further digs his own grave down the line. I just can't cut the customer any slack on stooping to Oceans level, however. He comes off sounding like almost as big of an idiot as the guy at Ocean. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure others will see it differently
- skizm 15y ago
  Totally agree the customer was in the wrong (at least somewhat) but I think this is more about the PR guy. The customer is allowed to be a jerk. The PR guy gets paid to handle people and what does he do? Gets in an argument with an angry customer. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows you always smile through your teeth. Worst comes to worst you can always just not respond, which would have been better than this.
  - manuscreationis 15y ago
    It's definitely more about the PR guy, no question. Above all else, those people are paid to be polite, courteous, and to relate to the customers. He dropped the ball big time
    - 15y ago
lallysingh 15y ago
What happened to talking to your customers in complete sentences?
- Vivtek 15y ago
  When you're eating sushi in a Jacuzzi with the Mayor of Boston, you don't need to type well.
  - uptown 15y ago
    Have you ever heard the Mayor of Boston speak? You don't really even need to speak well.
- chrisdroukas 15y ago
  I'm always surprised when I see people of extremely questionable literacy in public-facing positions. I really must be doing something wrong.
SRSimko 15y ago
Ok this will sound completely naive but whatever happened to the customer is always right? Ok yes, I agree that is a bit overstated but in this case he was right and Gabe came out all puffed up and aggressive from the start and continued and continued (I actually like at the end when he realizes who he is emailing back and forth to). Maybe I'm just naive but I believe the smart businessman (woman) puts the customers first.
FuzzyDunlop 15y ago
The guy must fancy himself as a bit of a mob boss/gangster. Maybe got too into The Sopranos? There's a point where you can start reading it all in Chris Moltisanti's voice. The fella making the complaint was hardly better, but seeing as the guy he was talking to was being unprofessional (at the very least) right off the bat, his only fault is letting his frustration get the better of him.
- sunchild 15y ago
  One of the golden rules of Sicilian "organized crime syndicates" is that you never, ever introduce yourself as a member or as someone who is connected. It is a hard and fast requirement that you are introduced by someone else who is inside. This goes back to the earliest days of protection racketeering on the island, and is taken extremely seriously even today. I'm not sure if the Campania/Napolitani families follow the same tradition, but it's a pretty good bet that if someone even so much as implies that they're "connected" to an Italian syndicate, they're not. Also, if you think pretending to be a cop is a bad idea, try pretending to be affiliated with gangsters...
hkarthik 15y ago
The whole thing seems too incredulous to be true and feels like a PR stunt. If it is true, and it makes this guy's products even more popular, then I fear for fate of humanity.
mebesilly 15y ago
¨an ego tripping blogger who not only publishes a private conversation but picks a side and joins the fight¨ This describes it perfectly.
glimcat 15y ago
From about five seconds of Google, it looks like the actual product was made by David Kotkin and is considered to be rather significant for disabled users. http://www.ablegamers.com/hardware-news/interview-with-avenger-controller-creator-david-kotkin.html http://www.ablegamers.com/hardware-news/interview-with-aveng... Paul Christoforo is just some schmuck at the contracted marketing company, because the product was put together by an art teacher trying to make small-quantity disability aids and not someone trying to launch a major business. Due diligence regarding fact-checking has apparently slipped below the threshold of "punch it into Google."
- untog 15y ago
  Glad someone has pointed this out. I predict a lot of misdirected internet anger towards an innocent man, here.
- scotty79 15y ago
  I wonder if anyone at Ocean Marketing and among the people who make Avengers had any idea how Paul Christoforo rolls. Another point towards "trust but check" policy towards your employees.
  - Samuel_Michon 15y ago
    From the looks of it, Paul Christoforo = Ocean Marketing. The website [1] lists "Paul@OceanMarketingInc.com" as the only email address, and the bio for the Twitter account "oceanmarketting" has his name and picture as avatar. [1] http://oceanmarketinginc.com/Contact-Us.php http://oceanmarketinginc.com/Contact-Us.php
    - fjarlq 15y ago
      I think that's all correct, except for the Twitter account, which I believe was created by another disgruntled customer (Nathan Stansell) a few months ago, following a similar exchange with Paul Christoforo. It looks like Stansell is now retweeting messages related to the new controversy. http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service "2:45 am. Created a Twitter account just so i could Tweet a comment and link to Mr Paul Christoforo at Ocean Marketing. @OceanMarketting - Am i still one little person out of Millions sir?"
fedxc 15y ago
Here is the Google since it looks down right now: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/just-wow1&hl=en&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
jschuur 15y ago
Note the guy's Twitter account: @OceanMarketting (with two Ts!).
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- jschuur 15y ago
  ...and now someone else has the Twitter account, because Paul renamed it to @OceanStrategy and didn't realize someone else could swoop in and get the old one: https://twitter.com/#!/oceanmarketting https://twitter.com/#!/oceanmarketting
- jschuur 15y ago
  Actually, wait... he renamed it to @OceanStratagy! Yup, that last A is no typo! http://twitter.com/OceanStratagy http://twitter.com/OceanStratagy And then someone else registered @OceanStrategy with the correct spelling: https://twitter.com/#!/OceanStrategy https://twitter.com/#!/OceanStrategy
vaksel 15y ago
I like how the guy is completely clueless about who he is talking to. He is in marketing, and didn't know someone like that? And this whole thing could have just been avoided with a measly $10 coupon.
- polymatter 15y ago
  Well according to the copy posted in the email "As a token of our appreciation we are offering all our pre-order customers and new customers 10$ off your next order with us just enter Avenger1001 at Checkout". So the company was even offering that measly $10 coupon that the pre-order customer wanted!
  - carols10cents 15y ago
    Except that new customers could use that $10 on the controller that pre-order customers had already purchased, while pre-order customers would have to buy something else (your next order) in order to use the $10 coupon.
shearn89 15y ago
I love the part where he tries to get back on Mike (Krahulik's) better side: "Did I feed into his emails a little bit too much yeah ok . But it’s one person dude for real. No disrespect intended for you , My name is good in this industry and I know a lot of people." But then goes off on one when Mike posts a slightly glib "take me off this mailing list"! I agree with FuzzyDunlop, definitely been watching waaay too much Sopranos. EDIT: The dude seriously needs to learn to punctuate sentences better, some of those could definitely use some commas!
- morsch 15y ago
  His insistence on putting a space in front of punctuation marks alone makes me cringe.
  - shabble 15y ago
    I've noticed this is common amongst a number of dyslexics I've known.
dlss 15y ago
Sigh. This may actually be good PR :( I had never heard of this controller until this story. It looks really cool. How other many people is that true for? edit/update: this story is #2 on the vanilla reddit front page.
- Splines 15y ago
  Hah - that'd be a good story. "I'll be a complete internet jerkwad, and get you in front of thousands of people. Disassociate yourself from me when the shit hits the fan." As long as you're careful about not letting the internet detectives dig too deeply, you could probably re-invent yourself and do this repeatedly. However, I'm a little unsure how many people would be willing to work with you on this. Great tin-foil hat material though.
- Terretta 15y ago
  The product site is getting hammered. You and I, and many more.
- metachris 15y ago
  May be good PR for the product, but ruins the marketing company's name (at least in the long run).
elliottcarlson 15y ago
Both IGN and Engadget have tweeted about this: .@OceanMarketting Please refrain from referring to me or IGN as support for you, your company or your clients. You do not have it. http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLowe/status/151595644182740992 http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLowe/status/151595644182740992 http://twitter.com/#!/engadget/status/151673881671905281 http://twitter.com/#!/engadget/status/151673881671905281
Hominem 15y ago
Yeah, the inventor David Kotkin is/was a teacher and inventor in Miami Florida, he was actually on local news demoing it. It seems it is being sold by a company called iNcontrol Enterprises LLC. Interestingly, all the press releases up until march 2011 for iNcontrol were done by a florida operation called The HAND Media who seem slightly more legit than Ocean Marketing. Ocean marketing seems to be mainly interested in promoting his ebay auctions on Twitter. Someone needs to get in touch with Kotkin and let him know the situation, that his marketing firm seems to have fallen down on the job.
- Hominem 15y ago
  The biz dev guy from n-control is on the case https://twitter.com/Tatterr https://twitter.com/Tatterr
  - sunchild 15y ago
    I love how this guy's tweets are all him announcing what game he's playing until this controversy flared up. He must be pretty annoyed about the dent this is making in his non-stop gaming lifestyle.
    - Hominem 15y ago
      I actually feel bad for these guys. They put trust in a supposedly professional,albeit somewhat slimy seeming with the pushing ebay auctions on the corporate Twitter account, marketing firm and this blows up over Christmas weekend. I worked with a really terrible marketing and pr firm myself when I was working for a small startup years ago. We were featured in the NYT, but our PR firm misrepresented us in such an insane way we could only conclude the firm didn't even know what we were doing. It turned what should have been a coup for us into a massive blow to our business.
- Hominem 15y ago
  What a mess, original marketing firm The HAND Media claims to have dumped n-control. And Ocean Marketing is using old HAND Media email addresses at n-control domains. http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christoforo-a-breakhe-probably-just-has-roid-rage http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christofo...
ropman76 15y ago
Agreed neither came off very well. But for the PR guy this should have been a walk in the park to deal with. I used to do customer service at an oversized health insurance company this would have been considered a mild case. You make a note in your outlook (or whatever you use) to check on the situation every once in awhile, send a nicely worded email saying you are personally following the situation and when it is done thanks them for their patience. Sure customers are not always happy but let’s face it the company broke its promise. Instead this PR guy gets his ego on and for that he should be fired. He was unprofessional when he should have known better.
scottshea 15y ago
Surprisingly Paul Christoforo has also been in Health Care & Realty and has a degree in Culinary Arts... according to his LinkedIn page: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-christoforo/1/295/835 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-christoforo/1/295/835
CosmicShadow 15y ago
Just love how some people's default is to be a dick instead of just simply saying sorry, we tried and things didn't work out.
powertower 15y ago
Is it just me, or does the customer come off as a bit of an asshole that's creating/feeding about 50% of the dramma he is complaining about.
- jonhendry 15y ago
  The customer paid his money, and he got no controller, just bullshit excuses and evasion and abuse. That gives him the right to complain. And he certainly started with a reasonable tone. It doesn't help that Christoforo is selling the controllers off his ebay account, which says they are shipping from Massachusetts, while his 'company' claims to be in California. http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687329514#ht_2193wt_1398 http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687329514#ht_2193wt_1398 So a paid order isn't filled on time, but this guy has controllers to sell on ebay? Makes me wonder if he's been diverting the controllers, i.e. stealing them, and selling them out from under the company.
  - powertower 15y ago
    The way I read it went like this... 1. Customer makes a $50 purchase. 2. Merchant gets over his head with new business, makes some mistakes. 3. Customer flips out on second email to merchant, tries to create problems for him with Visa. 4. Customer proceeds into a "principle" (aka ego) driven exchange with merchant that goes nowhere, turns into some kind of a pissing contest.
ycomb 15y ago
I am not pissed off at Ocean Marketing. In fact I love the put downs in their emails. Of course it was awful customer support. But damn. Mike K of Penny Arcade tries to flex his muscle saying he runs Pax. The Ocean Marketing rep did not give a damn, and took the piss out of him too. LMAO!
- lparry 15y ago
  I think you missed it. Mike said he ran PAX, the guy didn't recognize the name and started tying to name drop and claiming he'd get a booth if he wanted one. When the penny dropped that mike == gabe, and there's no way they'll be at PAX if he doesn't want them there, the penny drops and his tone changes
  - ryan-allen 15y ago
    And may I add, like a complete coward in the follow up [1] to Gabe, pleads for him to make it all stop, whatever it is. I think this bloke gets what he deserves. Thought it's mostly just another idiot on the internet, there are lots of those. The grandiose clams he made about his connections and sales are probably false. The shock value is in the fact that he _might_ be connected and powerful and is acting as such, though connected powerful people don't do such a thing (over email, at least). [1] http://penny-arcade.com/resources/an-update1.html http://penny-arcade.com/resources/an-update1.html
JayNeely 15y ago
Reddit thread with on-going updates: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ns2pu/pa_makers_of_avenger_controllers_take_money_and/c3bi6gs http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ns2pu/pa_makers_of_a...
MichaelJW 15y ago
New update from Gabe: http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/an-update1 http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/an-update1 "When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."
- Tloewald 15y ago
  "I think there is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. I have a real problem with bullies. I spent my childhood moving from school to school and I got made fun of everyplace I landed. I feel like Paul is a bully and maybe that’s why I have no sympathy here. Someday every bully meets and even bigger bully and maybe that’s me in this case. It’s the same thing that happened with Jack Thompson. It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a shit about that. When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames." I think in context the quoted line is more about how Gabe feels about bullies.
  - MichaelJW 15y ago
    Apologies, I did not mean to misrepresent him.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
aeontech 15y ago
Unfortunately firing Ocean Marketing may still be too little too late. Amazon ratings for the product[1] are already in the dumps because of this debacle, and I doubt many of those reviewers will go back and change their reviews as the situation goes along. [1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMZJL6/ http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMZJL6/

271 points by jamesmoss 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

The takeaway seems to be don't let a raging idiot near customers in the first place. There's a second documented encounter with the guy from 6 months ago: http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service

rapind 15y ago
That's incredible. You have to wonder if they even checked into him first with a simple google let alone reference checks.
TezzellEnt 15y ago
Paul Christoforo should never be in charge of a customer facing position. Maybe he should take the advice on (his) Ocean Marketing's front page: "Your brand is no stronger than your reputation - and will increasingly depend on what comes up when you are Googled." I wonder what will come up after all this is over.
- drzaiusapelord 15y ago
  I picture Paul like a real life Tom Haverford from Parks. The "you got told bitch" line is pure Tom.
obiterdictum 15y ago
This remnids me of a story last year about an online retailer who was deliberately rude to his customers to get bad press, because it improved his search engine ratings. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/business/28borker.html?pag...
- desigooner 15y ago
  Borker was also arrested later by NYPD.

manuscreationis 15y ago

At the risk of taking a potentially unpopular opinion on the subject, I don't think either one of those people come out looking too good. I'm all for doing the whole "CC your formal complaint letter to several outlets in hopes that someone will take notice" approach; My brother taught me about doing this when I was a little kid. He would write letters (this was before the advent of the internet) and note on the bottom that they had been CCd to various local news outlets, as well as the better business bureau (regardless of whether or not he actually sent those additional letters). And almost always, it worked. But I would be absolutely embarrassed to have my name attached to his complaint that got sent around. He is understandably, and in some cases justifiably, upset by the companies lack of communication and flippant nature, but this is no time to get into a pissing match. He chose to stoop to the guys level with name calling and taunting: Welcome to the internet bitch? Thats how I roll? It sounds like something you'd see on a meme, not something you want to end a complaint letter with. That said, the guy on Oceans end is clearly the winner when it comes to idiotic behavior, as he further digs his own grave down the line. I just can't cut the customer any slack on stooping to Oceans level, however. He comes off sounding like almost as big of an idiot as the guy at Ocean. Just my 2 cents, I'm sure others will see it differently

skizm 15y ago
Totally agree the customer was in the wrong (at least somewhat) but I think this is more about the PR guy. The customer is allowed to be a jerk. The PR guy gets paid to handle people and what does he do? Gets in an argument with an angry customer. Anyone who has worked in customer service knows you always smile through your teeth. Worst comes to worst you can always just not respond, which would have been better than this.
- manuscreationis 15y ago
  It's definitely more about the PR guy, no question. Above all else, those people are paid to be polite, courteous, and to relate to the customers. He dropped the ball big time
  - 15y ago

lallysingh 15y ago

What happened to talking to your customers in complete sentences?

Vivtek 15y ago
When you're eating sushi in a Jacuzzi with the Mayor of Boston, you don't need to type well.
- uptown 15y ago
  Have you ever heard the Mayor of Boston speak? You don't really even need to speak well.
chrisdroukas 15y ago
I'm always surprised when I see people of extremely questionable literacy in public-facing positions. I really must be doing something wrong.

SRSimko 15y ago

Ok this will sound completely naive but whatever happened to the customer is always right? Ok yes, I agree that is a bit overstated but in this case he was right and Gabe came out all puffed up and aggressive from the start and continued and continued (I actually like at the end when he realizes who he is emailing back and forth to). Maybe I'm just naive but I believe the smart businessman (woman) puts the customers first.

FuzzyDunlop 15y ago

The guy must fancy himself as a bit of a mob boss/gangster. Maybe got too into The Sopranos? There's a point where you can start reading it all in Chris Moltisanti's voice. The fella making the complaint was hardly better, but seeing as the guy he was talking to was being unprofessional (at the very least) right off the bat, his only fault is letting his frustration get the better of him.

sunchild 15y ago
One of the golden rules of Sicilian "organized crime syndicates" is that you never, ever introduce yourself as a member or as someone who is connected. It is a hard and fast requirement that you are introduced by someone else who is inside. This goes back to the earliest days of protection racketeering on the island, and is taken extremely seriously even today. I'm not sure if the Campania/Napolitani families follow the same tradition, but it's a pretty good bet that if someone even so much as implies that they're "connected" to an Italian syndicate, they're not. Also, if you think pretending to be a cop is a bad idea, try pretending to be affiliated with gangsters...

hkarthik 15y ago

The whole thing seems too incredulous to be true and feels like a PR stunt. If it is true, and it makes this guy's products even more popular, then I fear for fate of humanity.

mebesilly 15y ago

¨an ego tripping blogger who not only publishes a private conversation but picks a side and joins the fight¨ This describes it perfectly.

glimcat 15y ago

From about five seconds of Google, it looks like the actual product was made by David Kotkin and is considered to be rather significant for disabled users. http://www.ablegamers.com/hardware-news/interview-with-avenger-controller-creator-david-kotkin.html http://www.ablegamers.com/hardware-news/interview-with-aveng... Paul Christoforo is just some schmuck at the contracted marketing company, because the product was put together by an art teacher trying to make small-quantity disability aids and not someone trying to launch a major business. Due diligence regarding fact-checking has apparently slipped below the threshold of "punch it into Google."

untog 15y ago
Glad someone has pointed this out. I predict a lot of misdirected internet anger towards an innocent man, here.
scotty79 15y ago
I wonder if anyone at Ocean Marketing and among the people who make Avengers had any idea how Paul Christoforo rolls. Another point towards "trust but check" policy towards your employees.
- Samuel_Michon 15y ago
  From the looks of it, Paul Christoforo = Ocean Marketing. The website [1] lists "Paul@OceanMarketingInc.com" as the only email address, and the bio for the Twitter account "oceanmarketting" has his name and picture as avatar. [1] http://oceanmarketinginc.com/Contact-Us.php http://oceanmarketinginc.com/Contact-Us.php
  - fjarlq 15y ago
    I think that's all correct, except for the Twitter account, which I believe was created by another disgruntled customer (Nathan Stansell) a few months ago, following a similar exchange with Paul Christoforo. It looks like Stansell is now retweeting messages related to the new controversy. http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service http://www.natesnetwork.com/Poor-customer-service "2:45 am. Created a Twitter account just so i could Tweet a comment and link to Mr Paul Christoforo at Ocean Marketing. @OceanMarketting - Am i still one little person out of Millions sir?"

fedxc 15y ago

Here is the Google since it looks down right now: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/just-wow1&hl=en&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

jschuur 15y ago

Note the guy's Twitter account: @OceanMarketting (with two Ts!).

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
jschuur 15y ago
...and now someone else has the Twitter account, because Paul renamed it to @OceanStrategy and didn't realize someone else could swoop in and get the old one: https://twitter.com/#!/oceanmarketting https://twitter.com/#!/oceanmarketting
jschuur 15y ago
Actually, wait... he renamed it to @OceanStratagy! Yup, that last A is no typo! http://twitter.com/OceanStratagy http://twitter.com/OceanStratagy And then someone else registered @OceanStrategy with the correct spelling: https://twitter.com/#!/OceanStrategy https://twitter.com/#!/OceanStrategy

vaksel 15y ago

I like how the guy is completely clueless about who he is talking to. He is in marketing, and didn't know someone like that? And this whole thing could have just been avoided with a measly $10 coupon.

polymatter 15y ago
Well according to the copy posted in the email "As a token of our appreciation we are offering all our pre-order customers and new customers 10$ off your next order with us just enter Avenger1001 at Checkout". So the company was even offering that measly $10 coupon that the pre-order customer wanted!
- carols10cents 15y ago
  Except that new customers could use that $10 on the controller that pre-order customers had already purchased, while pre-order customers would have to buy something else (your next order) in order to use the $10 coupon.

shearn89 15y ago

I love the part where he tries to get back on Mike (Krahulik's) better side: "Did I feed into his emails a little bit too much yeah ok . But it’s one person dude for real. No disrespect intended for you , My name is good in this industry and I know a lot of people." But then goes off on one when Mike posts a slightly glib "take me off this mailing list"! I agree with FuzzyDunlop, definitely been watching waaay too much Sopranos. EDIT: The dude seriously needs to learn to punctuate sentences better, some of those could definitely use some commas!

morsch 15y ago
His insistence on putting a space in front of punctuation marks alone makes me cringe.
- shabble 15y ago
  I've noticed this is common amongst a number of dyslexics I've known.

dlss 15y ago

Sigh. This may actually be good PR :( I had never heard of this controller until this story. It looks really cool. How other many people is that true for? edit/update: this story is #2 on the vanilla reddit front page.

Splines 15y ago
Hah - that'd be a good story. "I'll be a complete internet jerkwad, and get you in front of thousands of people. Disassociate yourself from me when the shit hits the fan." As long as you're careful about not letting the internet detectives dig too deeply, you could probably re-invent yourself and do this repeatedly. However, I'm a little unsure how many people would be willing to work with you on this. Great tin-foil hat material though.
Terretta 15y ago
The product site is getting hammered. You and I, and many more.
metachris 15y ago
May be good PR for the product, but ruins the marketing company's name (at least in the long run).

elliottcarlson 15y ago

Both IGN and Engadget have tweeted about this: .@OceanMarketting Please refrain from referring to me or IGN as support for you, your company or your clients. You do not have it. http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLowe/status/151595644182740992 http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLowe/status/151595644182740992 http://twitter.com/#!/engadget/status/151673881671905281 http://twitter.com/#!/engadget/status/151673881671905281

Hominem 15y ago

Yeah, the inventor David Kotkin is/was a teacher and inventor in Miami Florida, he was actually on local news demoing it. It seems it is being sold by a company called iNcontrol Enterprises LLC. Interestingly, all the press releases up until march 2011 for iNcontrol were done by a florida operation called The HAND Media who seem slightly more legit than Ocean Marketing. Ocean marketing seems to be mainly interested in promoting his ebay auctions on Twitter. Someone needs to get in touch with Kotkin and let him know the situation, that his marketing firm seems to have fallen down on the job.

Hominem 15y ago
The biz dev guy from n-control is on the case https://twitter.com/Tatterr https://twitter.com/Tatterr
- sunchild 15y ago
  I love how this guy's tweets are all him announcing what game he's playing until this controversy flared up. He must be pretty annoyed about the dent this is making in his non-stop gaming lifestyle.
  - Hominem 15y ago
    I actually feel bad for these guys. They put trust in a supposedly professional,albeit somewhat slimy seeming with the pushing ebay auctions on the corporate Twitter account, marketing firm and this blows up over Christmas weekend. I worked with a really terrible marketing and pr firm myself when I was working for a small startup years ago. We were featured in the NYT, but our PR firm misrepresented us in such an insane way we could only conclude the firm didn't even know what we were doing. It turned what should have been a coup for us into a massive blow to our business.
Hominem 15y ago
What a mess, original marketing firm The HAND Media claims to have dumped n-control. And Ocean Marketing is using old HAND Media email addresses at n-control domains. http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christoforo-a-breakhe-probably-just-has-roid-rage http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christofo...

ropman76 15y ago

Agreed neither came off very well. But for the PR guy this should have been a walk in the park to deal with. I used to do customer service at an oversized health insurance company this would have been considered a mild case. You make a note in your outlook (or whatever you use) to check on the situation every once in awhile, send a nicely worded email saying you are personally following the situation and when it is done thanks them for their patience. Sure customers are not always happy but let’s face it the company broke its promise. Instead this PR guy gets his ego on and for that he should be fired. He was unprofessional when he should have known better.

scottshea 15y ago

Surprisingly Paul Christoforo has also been in Health Care & Realty and has a degree in Culinary Arts... according to his LinkedIn page: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-christoforo/1/295/835 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-christoforo/1/295/835

CosmicShadow 15y ago

Just love how some people's default is to be a dick instead of just simply saying sorry, we tried and things didn't work out.

powertower 15y ago

Is it just me, or does the customer come off as a bit of an asshole that's creating/feeding about 50% of the dramma he is complaining about.

jonhendry 15y ago
The customer paid his money, and he got no controller, just bullshit excuses and evasion and abuse. That gives him the right to complain. And he certainly started with a reasonable tone. It doesn't help that Christoforo is selling the controllers off his ebay account, which says they are shipping from Massachusetts, while his 'company' claims to be in California. http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687329514#ht_2193wt_1398 http://www.ebay.com/itm/230687329514#ht_2193wt_1398 So a paid order isn't filled on time, but this guy has controllers to sell on ebay? Makes me wonder if he's been diverting the controllers, i.e. stealing them, and selling them out from under the company.
- powertower 15y ago
  The way I read it went like this... 1. Customer makes a $50 purchase. 2. Merchant gets over his head with new business, makes some mistakes. 3. Customer flips out on second email to merchant, tries to create problems for him with Visa. 4. Customer proceeds into a "principle" (aka ego) driven exchange with merchant that goes nowhere, turns into some kind of a pissing contest.

ycomb 15y ago

I am not pissed off at Ocean Marketing. In fact I love the put downs in their emails. Of course it was awful customer support. But damn. Mike K of Penny Arcade tries to flex his muscle saying he runs Pax. The Ocean Marketing rep did not give a damn, and took the piss out of him too. LMAO!

lparry 15y ago
I think you missed it. Mike said he ran PAX, the guy didn't recognize the name and started tying to name drop and claiming he'd get a booth if he wanted one. When the penny dropped that mike == gabe, and there's no way they'll be at PAX if he doesn't want them there, the penny drops and his tone changes
- ryan-allen 15y ago
  And may I add, like a complete coward in the follow up [1] to Gabe, pleads for him to make it all stop, whatever it is. I think this bloke gets what he deserves. Thought it's mostly just another idiot on the internet, there are lots of those. The grandiose clams he made about his connections and sales are probably false. The shock value is in the fact that he _might_ be connected and powerful and is acting as such, though connected powerful people don't do such a thing (over email, at least). [1] http://penny-arcade.com/resources/an-update1.html http://penny-arcade.com/resources/an-update1.html

JayNeely 15y ago

Reddit thread with on-going updates: http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ns2pu/pa_makers_of_avenger_controllers_take_money_and/c3bi6gs http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/ns2pu/pa_makers_of_a...

MichaelJW 15y ago

New update from Gabe: http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/an-update1 http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/an-update1 "When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."

Tloewald 15y ago
"I think there is a big difference between being sorry and being sorry you got caught. I have a real problem with bullies. I spent my childhood moving from school to school and I got made fun of everyplace I landed. I feel like Paul is a bully and maybe that’s why I have no sympathy here. Someday every bully meets and even bigger bully and maybe that’s me in this case. It’s the same thing that happened with Jack Thompson. It might not always make the most business sense and it is a policy that has caused us some legal problems, but I really don’t give a shit about that. When these assholes threaten me or Penny Arcade I just laugh. I will personally burn everything I’ve made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames." I think in context the quoted line is more about how Gabe feels about bullies.
- MichaelJW 15y ago
  Apologies, I did not mean to misrepresent him.

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aeontech 15y ago

Unfortunately firing Ocean Marketing may still be too little too late. Amazon ratings for the product[1] are already in the dumps because of this debacle, and I doubt many of those reviewers will go back and change their reviews as the situation goes along. [1] http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMZJL6/ http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005CMZJL6/