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>Licenses for fishing and for fish processing are distributed separately, Sengers explains. Authorities saw fishing as one form of employment and fish processin

>Licenses for fishing and for fish processing are distributed separately, Sengers explains. Authorities saw fishing as one form of employment and fish processing as another, and they wanted to distribute both forms of employment equitably among the communities of the province. As a consequence, however, fish caught near Change Islands can’t be processed there. the idiocy of nanny state lawmakers never ceases to amaze me

bbojan 4y ago
Yeah, I understand why you would need licenses for fishing. It's a limited resource and you want to prevent overfishing. But why would you need s license for a fish processing plant? Why shouldn't anyone (whose facility fullfils hygiene criteria) be able to open one?
- 2rsf 4y ago
  You said it yourself- hygiene and zoning are two big reasons, you don't want your next door neighbour opening a stinky fish processing factory.
  - silon42 4y ago
    I assume fish processing includes fish farms, those are quite dirty...it's not just the stink.
  - bluGill 4y ago
    I disagree with that. You can legislate how much smell the factory is allowed to emit. You can legislate some other environmental impacts. However let the factory builders figure out how to work with that. If the factory doesn't smell (or other adverse impacts) then let them build it.
    - engineer_22 4y ago
      Fish factories just smell. There's not much you can do about that.
      - bluGill 4y ago
        Are you sure? Farmers have started to figure out things they can do about chicken/pig smell. Most just live with it, but when forced it turns out there is a lot you can do.
- somerandomqaguy 4y ago
  Hard to say. Canada's really funny sometimes when it comes to such things. We have supply management for dairy, poultry, turkey, and eggs. Quebec has similar protectionism for maple syrup and until last decade, the Canadian Wheat Board acted as a similar supply management role for Western Canada. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201842E https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/Resear... <-- supply management https://ppaq.ca/en/ https://ppaq.ca/en/ <-- Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers... much of it is in French. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Wheat_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Wheat_Board
  - randomdata 4y ago
    To add a couple more: Tobacco was also supply managed until 2009. Ontario's wheat board, which continues to operate as Grain Farmers of Ontario, gave up its single desk in 2002.
- randomdata 4y ago
  Prior to NAFTA, rural Canada was in deep on the socialist end of the spectrum. This is where things like universal healthcare emerged, but along with that there was also a push towards what are effectively unions in industry to provide bargaining power amid an increasingly urbanized country (and world). A number of industry unions were established at this time, a lot of which has lingered into the modern era. The most famous no doubt being the dairy industry, which has long been a particularly notable point of contention with the USA in trade relations. Dairy processors in Canada are encumbered in a similar manner, requiring quota to be able to operate. "Shouldn't" requires opinion, which are best left in our own minds, but "can't" is a functional necessity of maintaining a union. If anyone could open a competing plant, with the only requirement being to meet hygiene criteria, they could destabilize other processors which is what these unions were established to prevent.
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    -> rural Canada was in deep on the socialist end of the spectrum. Isn't socialism an urban phenomena? How did socialism develop in rural areas?
    - randomdata 4y ago
      Modern socialism is a response to industrialization and as Canada has historically been a resource-based economy industrialization rose most prominently in rural areas (mines, for example). Early agriculture in Canada was also steeped in socialist-like thinking, such as cooperatives that were established to supply the means of production, a lot of which still exists today. With that, it wasn't long before the farmers and labourers were working together. Canada's NDP political party was born out the amalgamation of earlier labour and farmer parties. Once NAFTA opened the US floodgates, though, it was compete or perish and that quickly changed attitudes as the old ways were largely no longer sustainable, except where certain trade restrictions were able to be maintained (dairy and poultry, for example). There has been a push towards 'Americanization' in rural Canada over the last 30-some-odd years in an effort to remain competitive.
    - monknomo 4y ago
elgenie 4y ago
Silly lawmakers, thinking that a boat that sticks nets in the water is a different business with different concerns than an on-land factory that takes fish as an input. BTW, this is Newfoundland where, left to their own devices free from interference from “nanny state lawmakers”, the local fishing industry used improved technology and salt-of-the-earth rural knowhow to … deplete fishing stocks so quickly and efficiently that the cod catch fell to 1% of historic levels by the time a 30 year moratorium was declared in 1992. The maintenance and management of the illusion that the Newfoundland coast’s core industry, and the “outport” communities like the Change Islands that depend on it, are viable, and the softening of the landing of their decline, has been a project of that annoying nanny state for like a half century at this point. There’s no fish processing facility on those islands because there are eventually going to be no little fishing boats and no town. Stand back a bit, and it’s 185 people whose net-negative presence on some remote islands is being subsidized at a massive loss by the rest of society.
- hcurtiss 4y ago
  That’s a rather uncharitable take. Managed properly, fisheries are a renewable resource. Atlantic Cod stocks are recovering.[1] We need protein as a society, and there’s no reason to entirely outlaw this source. If you do, it will only increase pressure on other sources. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/c0da63a0-6bc5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0 https://www.ft.com/content/c0da63a0-6bc5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b6...
  - elgenie 4y ago
    The 1992 moratorium to allow the stocks to the recover is it being managed, correct. It’s an example of a coordination problem that that darn nanny state is decent at handling. But restarting fishing won’t help the outports much if at all, because the efficient solution to the problem of someone needing to go out into the ocean to get a bunch of cod changed from being a town acting as an aircraft carrier for small fishing boats into a large fishing boat that returns straight to a larger port, and the industry as a whole employing an order of magnitude fewer people.
    - 4y ago

bbojan 4y ago

Yeah, I understand why you would need licenses for fishing. It's a limited resource and you want to prevent overfishing. But why would you need s license for a fish processing plant? Why shouldn't anyone (whose facility fullfils hygiene criteria) be able to open one?

2rsf 4y ago
You said it yourself- hygiene and zoning are two big reasons, you don't want your next door neighbour opening a stinky fish processing factory.
- silon42 4y ago
  I assume fish processing includes fish farms, those are quite dirty...it's not just the stink.
- bluGill 4y ago
  I disagree with that. You can legislate how much smell the factory is allowed to emit. You can legislate some other environmental impacts. However let the factory builders figure out how to work with that. If the factory doesn't smell (or other adverse impacts) then let them build it.
  - engineer_22 4y ago
    Fish factories just smell. There's not much you can do about that.
    - bluGill 4y ago
      Are you sure? Farmers have started to figure out things they can do about chicken/pig smell. Most just live with it, but when forced it turns out there is a lot you can do.
somerandomqaguy 4y ago
Hard to say. Canada's really funny sometimes when it comes to such things. We have supply management for dairy, poultry, turkey, and eggs. Quebec has similar protectionism for maple syrup and until last decade, the Canadian Wheat Board acted as a similar supply management role for Western Canada. https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/ResearchPublications/201842E https://lop.parl.ca/sites/PublicWebsite/default/en_CA/Resear... <-- supply management https://ppaq.ca/en/ https://ppaq.ca/en/ <-- Federation of Quebec Maple Syrup Producers... much of it is in French. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Wheat_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Wheat_Board
- randomdata 4y ago
  To add a couple more: Tobacco was also supply managed until 2009. Ontario's wheat board, which continues to operate as Grain Farmers of Ontario, gave up its single desk in 2002.
randomdata 4y ago
Prior to NAFTA, rural Canada was in deep on the socialist end of the spectrum. This is where things like universal healthcare emerged, but along with that there was also a push towards what are effectively unions in industry to provide bargaining power amid an increasingly urbanized country (and world). A number of industry unions were established at this time, a lot of which has lingered into the modern era. The most famous no doubt being the dairy industry, which has long been a particularly notable point of contention with the USA in trade relations. Dairy processors in Canada are encumbered in a similar manner, requiring quota to be able to operate. "Shouldn't" requires opinion, which are best left in our own minds, but "can't" is a functional necessity of maintaining a union. If anyone could open a competing plant, with the only requirement being to meet hygiene criteria, they could destabilize other processors which is what these unions were established to prevent.
- engineer_22 4y ago
  -> rural Canada was in deep on the socialist end of the spectrum. Isn't socialism an urban phenomena? How did socialism develop in rural areas?
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Modern socialism is a response to industrialization and as Canada has historically been a resource-based economy industrialization rose most prominently in rural areas (mines, for example). Early agriculture in Canada was also steeped in socialist-like thinking, such as cooperatives that were established to supply the means of production, a lot of which still exists today. With that, it wasn't long before the farmers and labourers were working together. Canada's NDP political party was born out the amalgamation of earlier labour and farmer parties. Once NAFTA opened the US floodgates, though, it was compete or perish and that quickly changed attitudes as the old ways were largely no longer sustainable, except where certain trade restrictions were able to be maintained (dairy and poultry, for example). There has been a push towards 'Americanization' in rural Canada over the last 30-some-odd years in an effort to remain competitive.
  - monknomo 4y ago

elgenie 4y ago

Silly lawmakers, thinking that a boat that sticks nets in the water is a different business with different concerns than an on-land factory that takes fish as an input. BTW, this is Newfoundland where, left to their own devices free from interference from “nanny state lawmakers”, the local fishing industry used improved technology and salt-of-the-earth rural knowhow to … deplete fishing stocks so quickly and efficiently that the cod catch fell to 1% of historic levels by the time a 30 year moratorium was declared in 1992. The maintenance and management of the illusion that the Newfoundland coast’s core industry, and the “outport” communities like the Change Islands that depend on it, are viable, and the softening of the landing of their decline, has been a project of that annoying nanny state for like a half century at this point. There’s no fish processing facility on those islands because there are eventually going to be no little fishing boats and no town. Stand back a bit, and it’s 185 people whose net-negative presence on some remote islands is being subsidized at a massive loss by the rest of society.

hcurtiss 4y ago
That’s a rather uncharitable take. Managed properly, fisheries are a renewable resource. Atlantic Cod stocks are recovering.[1] We need protein as a society, and there’s no reason to entirely outlaw this source. If you do, it will only increase pressure on other sources. [1] https://www.ft.com/content/c0da63a0-6bc5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b60d0 https://www.ft.com/content/c0da63a0-6bc5-11e7-b9c7-15af748b6...
- elgenie 4y ago
  The 1992 moratorium to allow the stocks to the recover is it being managed, correct. It’s an example of a coordination problem that that darn nanny state is decent at handling. But restarting fishing won’t help the outports much if at all, because the efficient solution to the problem of someone needing to go out into the ocean to get a bunch of cod changed from being a town acting as an aircraft carrier for small fishing boats into a large fishing boat that returns straight to a larger port, and the industry as a whole employing an order of magnitude fewer people.
  - 4y ago