5 ms·
U.S. to announce fusion energy ‘breakthrough’
- cratermoon 4y ago"The Department of Energy plans to announce Tuesday that scientists have been able for the first time to produce a fusion reaction that creates a net energy gain" Oh, just like this time in 2013, https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-nif-uh-not-really https://www.science.org/content/article/fusion-breakthrough-..., and this one in 2021 https://www.sciencealert.com/for-the-first-time-a-fusion-reaction-has-generated-more-energy-than-absorbed-by-the-fuel https://www.sciencealert.com/for-the-first-time-a-fusion-rea... Which definition of breakeven are they using this time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurplDfPi3U&t=3s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JurplDfPi3U&t=3s
- avalys 4y agoYes, they have been working on this for years and making progress, what's your point?
- riku_iki 4y agothe point is that "first time" happened several times before already according to references.
- sgc 4y agoWell, if the definition of "net energy" keeps expanding to include more of the experimental infrastructure, that is progress and we are just splitting hairs about wording - which is a real waste, considering they are one of the few groups with consistent tangible experimental improvements. In 2021, that was 1.3 megajoules, or net in comparison to the energy absorbed by the fuel. This is a bigger milestone at 2.5 megajoules, since it is in reference to the energy in the lasers themselves.
- riku_iki 4y ago> that is progress and we are just splitting hairs about wording - which is a real waste we (those who don't have deep expertise) trying to understand what is "breakthrough" and "net energy" in this case comparing to previous claims. Your explanation added some value on this, thank you.
- sgc 4y agoI have been following this work for a few years but I am no expert. Both numbers, and both explanations as to their significance, are from the articles linked in this thread. The next step will likely be net energy in respect to the entire system - or unqualified net energy. From there it is work on improving efficiency and scaling to commercial usefulness, which of course might be just as hard.
- FBISurveillance 4y agoThis is just popular scientific journalism/clickbaiting, they also claim it "provides unlimited, cheap, clean power" which is also not true precisely speaking.
- hindsightbias 4y agoNIF will suck research dollars from programs more likely become powerplant platforms. Click-bait wins. Not that it really matters, it will always be 30 years away.
- killjoywashere 4y agoNIF is not for power plant research. It's an end run around the nuclear test ban treaty. The US signed a treaty promising to not conduct any nuclear weapons tests. So the NIF creates a functional equivalent by smashing energy from 192 high energy lasers into a very small space, the interior of a hohlraum. At the center of the hohlraum is a tiny capsule of deuterium and tritium. And under all that energy, for a brief moment, some of the tritium and deuterium fuse.
- salawat 4y ago...you realize that has nothing to do with conventional nuclear weapons other than being a neutron source for more complete fission of a fissile primary right? Most of the energy in "fusion" weapon is all fission based. You aren't going to turn a hohlraum into the basis of a bomb.
- CarbonCycles 4y agoTo add another point to the above post, the lab in question a year ago made the following statement regarding fusion. The hype circle continues... https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/lawrence-livermore-lab-makes-significant-achievement-in-fusion.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/17/lawrence-livermore-lab-makes... Excerpt copied for emphasis: Hurricane, however, is more cautious about seeing fusion as an answer to a need for clean energy. “While our team is very excited about this result, because it is a hard won science/engineering achievement, I don’t see it as being useful for a clean energy source. The learning from our result may, however, be relevant,” Hurricane tells CNBC. “I am very concerned, in general, about fusion being hyped as a solution for climate change,” he says. “My personal opinion is that fusion energy is still a future technology, so it would be foolish for people bet the planet on fusion addressing the immediate climate concerns.” Also noteworthy, research at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory National Ignition Facility is part of the Stockpile Stewardship Program, a government effort born in 1995 to study aging nuclear weapons without nuclear testing. “One of the original visions for the NIF was for it to be a substitute for underground nuclear testing, keeping weapons scientists tethered to the reality of experiment so that the Nation can depend upon their skills, knowledge, and most importantly judgement,” said Hurricane. “This new result helps support that vision.”
- stevespang 4y ago
- isaacfrond 4y agohttps://archive.ph/CaEir https://archive.ph/CaEir
- chasil 4y agoThe image on the top of this article is a hohlraum, used in laser fusion. The article is scant on details, but does mention that a powerful laser is involved. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohlraum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohlraum
- killjoywashere 4y agoIt's the NIF at LLNL, these people are studying weapons, not clean energy. If they discovered something about clean energy in a hohlraum, it's secondary or tertiary to the real findings.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- lost_tourist 4y agoAnd there's nothing wrong with studying weapons for our national defense, so all discoveries are welcome.
- elil17 4y agoI think many people (myself included) think there is something wrong with developing new nuclear bomb technologies specifically.
- fxd123 4y agoThey are studying both equally. The official term is "dual-use" technology, which is a major focus at all national labs.
- clay-dreidels 4y ago
- ljnelson 4y agoSee also the Financial Times, which originally reported the story: https://www.ft.com/content/4b6f0fab-66ef-4e33-adec-cfc345589dc7 https://www.ft.com/content/4b6f0fab-66ef-4e33-adec-cfc345589...
- layer8 4y agohttps://archive.ph/szeNj https://archive.ph/szeNj
- layer8 4y ago> The laboratory confirmed that a successful experiment had recently taken place at its National Ignition Facility but said analysis of the results was ongoing. > “Initial diagnostic data suggests another successful experiment at the National Ignition Facility. However, the exact yield is still being determined and we can’t confirm that it is over the threshold at this time,” it said. “That analysis is in process, so publishing the information . . . before that process is complete would be inaccurate.”
- dang 4y agoYes. This story has proven impossible to wait for because it was leaked and is being widely reported, so I guess we're going with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33945863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33945863 - as you say, that article seems to be the 'original source' of at least the current wave.
- dang 4y ago> The Department of Energy plans to announce "Announcement of an announcement" is an offtopic category on HN: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22announcement%20of%20an%20announcement%22 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... We can afford to burn the layer(s) of indirection and just wait until the thing itself exists: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22no%20harm%20in%20waiting%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....
- FullyFunctional 4y agoAnd this applies 10000X fold to battery and fusion announcements which seem to come daily.
- not_kurt_godel 4y agoCan you please remind us the last time the Department of Energy announced that net-positive energy fusion was achieved?
- FullyFunctional 4y agoSo we should make an exception because it DoE? I'm apparently in minority here, but I've suffered announcement fatigue and will very like to focus on more achievable (= practical) near-term solutions, of which there are many.
- not_kurt_godel 4y agoYes, we should make an exception when the government agency that manages the world's largest supply of nuclear weapons and materials vets a claim. Obviously.
- rossjudson 4y agoPretty sure we'll just be able to ask ChatGPT how to build a fusion reactor. Let's get to work!!
- 0xbadc0de5 4y agoLet me guess: fusion for power generation is just 20 years away... Wake me up when there's a fusion tax on my power bill.
- antisthenes 4y agoThe irony of putting a potentially civilization-altering breakthrough behind a newspaper paywall is not lost on me. Which also leads me to believe, it's a breakthrough only in the sense of a successful experiment somewhere.
- realAzazello 4y agoAnother Washington Post irony is that they had the tongue-in-cheek but applaudable bravery to put quotes (albeit single ones) around 'Breakthrough' in their Title -- unlike other new sources trying to appear relevant by jumping on the coattails of this leak. Well-played WP, well-played.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]