35 ms·

Japanese Manga are being eclipsed by Korean webtoons

190 points by pigtailgirl 4y ago

politelemon 4y ago
The term normally used is 'manhwa'. Webtoons can be from any place (and there are many Chinese ones too), manhwa is the Korean word for comics (so it can be physical or digital). Though slightly different, the words do get used interchangeably. Manhwa are very mobile friendly, the language is simple, and most notably they are colorful, which attracts audiences and makes it quite accessible. Compare it to some of the more dense manga you might read where sometimes a panel requires a lot of pinching and zooming. For sure though, as the article points out, there are a lot of amazing and intriguing stories in manga, which have better story density compared to the thinner, spread out stories in manhwa which are catering to an audience that just wants to keep scrolling. The artstyle too, I don't think we're going to see anything close to Junji Ito or Berserk style work in webtoon format anytime soon. But anyway this trend of manhwa's popularity has been noticeable for several years now. The top entries on manga 'aggregator' sites have been manhwa as well.
- poglet 4y ago
  > sometimes a panel requires a lot of pinching and zooming. The iPad (12.9") is what got me into comics and manga, the screen size is almost perfect so it's a very pleasant experience.
  - terrorOf 4y ago
    It is not a form factor everyone takes everywhere. Webtoon can be read comfortably anywhere anytime with mobile phone pretty much everyone has in the hand or in the pocket. That is huger difference.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      I think in Japan most manga is still read on paper
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Do you read 2 pages at a time in landscape mode? I like reading manga on my 11” iPad (in portrait mode), but IIUC this is actually significantly larger than print manga.
    - kitsunesoba 4y ago
      On my 12.9" I read one page at a time in portrait. The size is nice since it lets me see the details and small text well without holding the tablet close to my face or zooming. The 11" model is a very good size for manga reading and allows for this too, though. 11" is my preferred size actually, but I went for the 12.9" instead to be able to better test apps on that model — an app designed for 11" only will have a lot of wasted space running on a 12.9". The miniLED backlighting is nice too, wish that 11" had that.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Well said, and I agree with every point. I love Solo Leveling, and it’s very much action based like Berserk, but it will never reach the same depths of emotion Berserk can elicit. Caveat emptor: I’ve worked on both manhwa and manga as a scanlation (unofficial translations) proofreader.
  - worthless-trash 4y ago
    Thank you for your work.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      It's fun (well, when you're working on one you enjoy), and there's plenty of need. If you're on Mangadex, just look for the requests teams are making as part of their headers or footers in scanlated chapters. It's how I found my way in. Proofreaders in scanlation are basically touching up the translations to make them read well in English (tenses and idioms that don't always translate well), as well as checking for consistency between chapters in tone and spelling.
  - franciscop 4y ago
    True, but one of the things I loved of Solo Leveling (it's finished, right?) is that some times the colors are AMAZING, like there were some panels where I would just stop and get lost in the art for a bit, while that rarely happened to me with black and white manga. Even when it DID happen with manga, it's literally missing an order of magnitude, so IMHO peak manga B&W can barely compare with peak full-color art (and I'm not even saying Solo Leveling is top-level color art, what I'm saying is that it's "very good" and with that it beats "top level" B&W any day IMHO).
    - falcolas 4y ago
      I cant disagree that color art has dimensions to it that black and white (and halftones) can’t quite reach. But to say that color alone makes it better than greyscale… No, I can not agree with that. A matter of taste? Perhaps. But there is some absurdly beautiful art in Manga too. Starkness, working within constraints, has its own beauty. And, as an aside, full color manga is becoming a thing too. More and more full color webtoon style comics are coming from Japan; from mangaka.
- et-al 4y ago
  Manhwa, mànhuà, manga... 漫画. Ultimately, it's all in line with the rise of South Korea. 1980s : Japan :: 2010s : S. Korea
- userbinator 4y ago
  It's worth noting that manga, manwha, manhua, are slightly different ways to pronounce what are essentially the same characters which mean "comics" across those respective languages: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%BC%AB%E7%95%AB https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%BC%AB%E7%95%AB
  - numpad0 4y ago
    I think that's because Korean and Chinese usages are loanword from Japanese manga. Japanese version of Wikipedia traces etymology back to 17th-18th century pseudo-Chinese word, later extended to include Western comics which became the roots of modern day manga.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  Manhwa have definitely had more of a strict formula to them than most other contemporary comics, at least the ones I've viewed. Most of the stories seem to be copy-pastes of a "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy, with characterizations falling along class and gender stereotypes. Illustrations are likewise industrial in nature, using the same posable doll figures to churn out basic talking head + fighting panels. I can't recall one that did good establishing shots or worked the vertical layout for interesting composition. That said, I still read the stuff on occasion. It's still comics, and not far in the adherence to formula.
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    Isn't the "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy make the majority of the manga market, at least in the west? Manga and anime is very diverse, and yet, only the "shounen" style seems to represented, and that's not even the full spectrum of what shounen has to offer. I don't know much about manhwa, maybe there is more depth to what we are served, or maybe it is just that they just focused on what is commercially successful.
    - SllX 4y ago
      > Isn't the "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy make the majority of the manga market, at least in the west? Shōnen is probably the bigger market, but it’s worth noting that the key to the “style” is that it’s the term for the target market: young boys. There is usually a power accumulation fantasy, but more accurately these are typically coming-of-age stories. So: Shōnen: Young Boys Shōjo: Young Girls Seinen: Young Men Josei: Ladies (there is also a separate category for “Young Ladies”) As you can see, these are less genre terms and more demographic terms.
    - gotbeans 4y ago
      Additionally in manhuas, some non so usual topice are overreepresented, like a _lot_ of shonnen manhuas about business character success/CEO kind of stuff.
      - astrange 4y ago
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  The medium is the message.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kixiQu 4y ago
  I must disagree. It's accurate that the word "webtoon" can refer to Chinese webtoons as well – but "webtoon" is what is used to refer to digital publication + the style of panel layout designed to be swiped vertically on a screen. "Manhwa" predate and extend beyond this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goong_(manhwa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goong_(manhwa) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House_(manhwa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House_(manhwa) are two that got big and were adapted to hell and back) being the general term for Korean comics – which, in the print era, had the typical print layout. I think it's worthwhile to be precise in these conversations because there are Japanese webtoons as well these days, which would properly constitute "manga" as well, and if we're mixing up all the "comics" words from different languages with the trends in their formats, it's going to be a pain to discuss.
  - t3rra 4y ago
    True. In Korea, we never say Japanese comics, manga, but just say Japanese manhwa. It is only a generic term for comics/cartoons.
  - politelemon 4y ago
    Yes as I've said they are different, but get used interchangeably. You can try your best to be precise in the conversations but there is too much incorrect momentum behind the wrong words sadly! It's like calling things fonts when you actually mean typeface. Or GPS when you actually mean GNSS.
    - kixiQu 4y ago
      I mean, one thing said was "Manhwa are very mobile friendly, the language is simple, and most notably they are colorful" which is true of "webtoons", not of "manhwa". I don't agree that there's too much incorrect momentum behind the words; what I see in fan/piracy circles tends to be pretty clear about it.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
  > The term normally used is 'manhwa'. I don't know about English usage, but in Korean these are different concepts. "Manhwa" (만화, maan-hwaa) means "comics", usually in print. The Korean word for an online comic is "webtoon" (웹툰, ooeb-toon). This is the usage, for example, on Naver: NAVER 웹툰 is the title of https://comic.naver.com https://comic.naver.com. Of course the webtoons borrow a lot from manhwa style, but one buys/rents manhwa at a store and reads webtoons on the subway. So they are different concepts and "webtoon" is the proper Korean term for this phenomenon.
  - t3rra 4y ago
    Still people can say "reading manhwa" when they read webtoon. Webtoon is still manhwa. I also say I read 만화 to my friend who read on Naver and Daum, who also often say 만화
  - ahmadmijot 4y ago
    For (at least within scanlation scene) english usage: Manga is comic originated from Japan Manhwa is comic originated from Korea Manhua is comic originated from China
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Ruthalas 4y ago
      This is also what I have seen in other online communities that aggregate such works.
    - orthoxerox 4y ago
      "Tank is an armored vehicle originated in the UK, char d'assaut is an armored vehicle originated in France, Panzer is an armored vehicle originated in Germany." It's fine to call them all "tanks" and it's fine to call all East Asian comics "comics" or even "manga".
      - anotherman554 4y ago
- astonex 4y ago
  In Korea, Manhwa tends to refer to printed comics like Manga, whilst Webtoon refers to online digital comics.
  - t3rra 4y ago
    Still in Korea, people often say "read manhwa" on (webtoon platform). Webtoon is just a digital version of manhwa but not separate thing.
- CiceroCiceronis 4y ago
  I was talking to a friend the other day about how it feels like manhua/longstrip webtoon comics has yet to experience its creative peak. Looking back at the history of manga, it is possible to see how new innovations have played with and manipulated standard ideas of paneling and framing to produce fascinating and artistic work. A seemingly constrained format (small-size black-and-white comic book) becomes a canvas for extraordinary creative expression. Longstrip comics are not worse than manga, of course, but it feels like creators have yet to explore the edges of the format. What can a longstrip do that a traditional book can’t? How can the limitations of the format be turned into strengths? I wonder if this will come to pass, and how long it will take.
  - bnjms 4y ago
    Have you seen this story (must be non-mobile)? http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31 http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=... If you’re mobile the scrolling breaks. Otherwise it’s an interesting example of the medium.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sudomatic 4y ago
  Oh, I see. I didn't realize that the term "manhwa" was specifically used for Korean comics. I always just thought it was a general term for any type of webcomic. It's interesting to hear about the differences between manga and manhwa. It sounds like manhwa are more accessible and mobile-friendly, but that manga has a higher story density and more complex art styles. I suppose it's all a matter of personal preference.
- lvl102 4y ago
  You don’t have to comment if you don’t actually know. What you just said is quite wrong.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Mistletoe 4y ago
Can someone link me a webtoon so I can see the difference? Googling wasn’t great. Edit: Nevermind, found one with English translation. https://m.webtoons.com/en/romance/truebeauty/spin-off-4/viewer?title_no=1436&episode_no=228 https://m.webtoons.com/en/romance/truebeauty/spin-off-4/view... Yes seems perfectly suited for mobile consumption.
- falcolas 4y ago
  Solo Leveling. I'm mentioning it all over here, but it's a great example of the style, the artwork, and the stories (at least the OP MC ones). It also has official English ebooks coming out.
- Kuinox 4y ago
  This one doesn't even profit much of the vertical height, it looks like a regular paper page format adapted to a vertical screen. These days, a lot of high quality webtoons profit a lot of the vertical screen and make drawing that would be hard to put on paper without cutting it: https://www.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/episode-0-prologue/viewer?title_no=2154&episode_no=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/episode...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
boomboomsubban 4y ago
https://archive.vn/aesfl https://archive.vn/aesfl
monetus 4y ago
A shout out to the art of metaphorical her - a great change from the pulp webtoons https://m.webtoons.com/en/drama/metaphorical-her/list?title_no=1475&page=1&webtoon-platform-redirect=true https://m.webtoons.com/en/drama/metaphorical-her/list?title_... Edit: also a nod to what seemed to be Stan lee's last venture, the webtoon backchannel - still the only webtoon I can think of that had some animations included. https://m.webtoons.com/en/super-hero/backchannel/list?title_no=1456&page=1&webtoon-platform-redirect=true https://m.webtoons.com/en/super-hero/backchannel/list?title_...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rippercushions 4y ago
Advertising has a large part to play here as well: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/43985/webtoon-comics-platform-running-multi-million-dollar-ad-campaign-tv-web-theaters-outdoor https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/43985/webtoon-comics-pla... And it's not just this one company: I don't read comics of any description (with the arguable exception of xkcd), but at one point my social media ads were saturated with borderline-NSFW spam for Korean porn comics. I was genuinely surprised the ads was allowed by the Google/Meta morality police, and after enough not interested/not appropriate reports it did stop as suddenly as it started. Or maybe they just ran out of ad budget?
- Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
  South Korea has made cultural export part of their industrial policy. It's very different from Japan whose executives still don't care about non Japanese and was 100% organic until CR saw a chance to profit off the difference but that still doesn't campare to SK. In my opinion it cheapens the medium to an extent. Not sure if the US does this too or if hollywood success is mostly organic. Certainly anime had seen the most organic growth of a market until CR, funi, Netflix et al ruined it.
  - yongjik 4y ago
    TBH, I think it's more like the SK government trying to bank on the unexpected popularity of Korean culture, to which the government itself had contributed little. Frequently the government actively got in the way: the director Bong Joon-Ho and actor Song Kang-Ho, of Parasite fame, had been both on the infamous "cultural blacklist" maintained by Park Geun-hye's conservative government, for being "leftist artists." I agree that blatant money-grabbing attempts do cheapen the art from time to time, but you don't really need the government's help for that.
    - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
      It seems SK has been in this game for a long time: >In 1997-1998, South Korea was in the midst of a financial crisis. It required a substantial loan from the International Monetary Fund to restructure its debt and it left South Korea, at the time, with a tarnished national brand. Fearing a brain drain and an inability to attract top talent, a Ministry of Culture (alongside tourism and sport) was created, with a specific department responsible for developing locally made and owned pop music, along with film, fashion, dance and art. This coincided with the end of state censorship (in 1996) and the removal of a cultural embargo with Japan in 2000, which led to an upsurge in Japanese consumption of Korean culture, prompting a need to meet the demand of the new audience. Music, along with other forms of culture, was seen as a way to accelerate economic recovery, so policies to support cultural development and investment to support the making and marketing of music were made. This was not funding. This was an investment. By 2011, K-Pop was finding new audiences around the world, including a sell out showcase at New York City’s Madison Square Garden.[0] From wikipedia: >President Kim Dae Jung put forth industrial policies supporting entertainment with the same regard as traditional industrial sectors such as manufacturing. Investments were made in both infrastructure and technology to support K-Pop, including concert halls and visual effects technology. In addition, government regulation of karaoke bars favored K-Pop.[6] >Since then, there has been a focus on developing soft power; the Ministry believes that by promoting Korean culture abroad, exports of other goods and services will also increase. As part of those efforts to move beyond developing a domestic industry and toward international success, the Ministry established an advisory committee and announced an international training school. Direct financial support of artists increased. In 2013, the Ministry allocated 319 billion won (US$280 million) for direct support of Hallyu (Korean Wave). Cultural exports increased at an annual rate of 10 percent as a result of these efforts.[7] If this aspect is overstated, at the very least the SK industry itself has focused on foreign markets: >During the late 90s, talent agencies began to market K-pop stars by implementing an idol business model used in J-pop,[91] where talents are selected and trained to appeal to a global audience through formal lessons or through residency programs.[2] While K-pop is compared to J-pop here, note that the comparison is the idol system, not the foreign marketing, which did not happen in Japan to my knowledge. Edit: perhaps I'm wrong, from my own link: >Despite popular internet speculation on the Korean government's financial support for the promotion of K-Pop, there are no figures to substantiate the speculation. In 2013, of the $230 million allocated for Hallyu, there are itemized contributions to the promotion of the Korean language, culture and food but no known figures for allocations directly to K-Pop. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/shainshapiro/2021/07/06/want-proof-investing-in-music-works-look-at-south-korea/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/shainshapiro/2021/07/06/want-pr... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Culture,_Sports_and_Tourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Culture,_Sports_an... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-pop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-pop
anigbrowl 4y ago
Big 'telenovelas are the future of entertainment' energy. Not to run down these innovations, but evaluating success purely in terms of short-duration financial return seems like a mistake. As long as something is best summarized as 'like X for Y', X is still the elephant in the room. I'm sure we'll see other waves of this as other countries where the legwork of anime is outsourced to (eg Vietnam) starts producing domestic & international success stories.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  There's probably some value in the argument of "there are missing spots in the traditional American media marketplace, and right now they're being filled with imported products." I never really got into American comics, but I have shelves full of manga/manhwa. There's probably things that can to be cherry-picked from it: * Improved availability to consume the entire franchise. Even one of the worst of the worst, One Piece, is basically a single straight run of 101 (currently) books which are easily obtainable. If I wanted to read "all of Spider-Man", it's likely hundreds of volumes across dozens of sub-titles, some of which are essentally unobtainable except as expensive collectibles. * Little to no "Cinematic Universe" stuff; this ties into the above concept; I don't need to follow twelve other series to know about the single story I've become invested in. * The classic "Weekly Jump" style phone-book magazine format is almost a proto-subscription in terms of risk aversion and explorability. If you know you already like one or two products, you can safely buy the (impossibly cheap) book, which gives you chance to explore the other 18 titles in there. * Some of the zanier premises that work out. One of my favourites was Eyeshield 21, a 37-volume story which effectively turned high school football into a shonen battle drama. Could that have flown even in the US?
  - MattDemers 4y ago
    It also helps that it is extremely rare to see a manga have a rotating creative team, so you get a much more consistent story and tone, the whole way through. Having a creator come onto an American comic with a specific enthusiasm for one specific character, theme or trope, and have that dominate for years of that creators' tenure, is really annoying. Also, that creator needing to be aware of previous history (or choosing to ignore it entirely) means you're getting a mixed bag. I lost interest in Western comics after DC rebooted their universe ("Which time?" you ask? New 52) and it became clear that unless your favourite character was marquee (Superman, Batman, etc), it was completely out of control what was going to change or be ignored about their history. I ended up thinking "if comics aren't going to respect me as a reader, why am I staying around?" This, of course, got worse with the advent of the MCU and its imitators. Western comics are mostly just idea factories for films now; the "big name" creatives of the past are largely retired, or writing for TV/movies, and the people replacing them have nowhere near the vision (or freedom from Marvel or DC) to create compelling stories. Manga is completely demolishing Western comics' sales at every turn, and Oda being able to craft twenty years of a narrative (while making me feel rewarded for investing) is an amazing feat.
makeitdouble 4y ago
> Yet Japanese manga are being eclipsed by Korean webtoons. Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). The size of the global webtoons market was meanwhile valued at $3.7bn—and projected to reach $56bn by 2030. Manga market is valued at 4.5bn USD (613 bn JPY)[0] so we’re not there yet. On the format part, it’s interesting to see manga publishers adapting to smartphones and sometimes have two versions published: one vertically scrollable “decomposed” stream of the story, and a “recomposed” book format version sold as comic book in the traditional way. Line manga does that, and I’d expect a bunch more companies to have made the move. All in all, good ideas spread fast in those spheres, and the article’s “The industry’s business model has hardly changed since the 1960s” tagline is I think misleading regarding the industry’s ability to adapt. https://www.statista.com/topics/7559/manga-industry-in-japan/#topicHeader__wrapper https://www.statista.com/topics/7559/manga-industry-in-japan...
- bluepizza 4y ago
  > The size of the global webtoons market was meanwhile valued at $3.7bn—and projected to reach $56bn by 2030. This is called wishful thinking. The research was ordered by webtoons producers.
  - deathofmurat 4y ago
    These are incredibly agressive growth estimates, but many competitors in the manga/comics space are rushing to grab their proverbial pieces of pie - disclaimer: this is anecdotal from experience working in the field
    - bluepizza 4y ago
      Those growth estimates are assuming there is more pie. We've seen this over and over again, from telenovelas to anime to k-drama - the pie is never that large.
  - olliecornelia 4y ago
    https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E11/289555.jpg?b64lines=SUYgVEhFU0UgVFJFTkRTCkNPTlRJTlVFLi4uIEFBWSE= https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E11/289555.jpg?b64lines=SUYgVEh...
KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago
I have a tablet that I want to read webtoons on because I don't want to use a tiny phone screen, it's basically impossible. The spaces between the panels are way too big. So I basically never read webtoons and stick exclusively to manga... If anyone knows a service that "fixes" the webtoons for me that would be great.
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  I wonder if this runs the risk of changing the medium enough that things sometimes don’t work as the creator intended. Like when Manga is fixed to be right to left for non-Japanese audiences, sometimes it breaks things.
- lidavidm 4y ago
  A few of the more popular webtoons have now been reformatted for print (e.g. Villains are Destined to Die, Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke's Mansion). Those have both physical and digital copies, and use the normal page size.
oneoff786 4y ago
I have only a vague awareness of manga, but I feel like all of the famous ones are men whereas this article features several female authors. Is that noteworthy?
- goosedragons 4y ago
  No because there is several famous female manga authors. Rumiko Takahashi is probably the biggest one, did Inuyasha and Ranma 1/2 among others, then you got Hiromu Arakawa who did Fullmetal Alchemist, and Naoko Takeuchi who created Sailor Moon, CLAMP the female team behind Cardcaptor Sakura, Chobits and others. I'm sure there's a lot more in the Josei side of things I don't read too much and aren't as popular in the West too.
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Full Metal Alchemist were all female authors — and animes you could watch on US tv.
the_lonely_road 4y ago
If you have never given a Korean webtoon a chance and are into video games / fantasy themed anime I recommend you give omniscient reader a chance. https://m.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/list?title_no=2154&page=1 https://m.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/list?titl... It’s become pretty popular with Korean American streamers on Twitch and has of course spread to the rest of us via listening to them talk about it. I quite enjoyed it and hope that a Korean animated scene pops up to match the Japanese Anime one because this would be a great anime.
- Retric 4y ago
  I came across that one before but found it incredibly derivative and boring. The arbitrary rules apocalyptic story where MC has inside knowledge just get’s really repetitive after reading a few. The MC is kept as bland as possible for wider appeal, but the supporting characters can’t both pick up the slack and constantly be killed off to keep tension. Worse if they actually keep up with the MC’s progression then what’s the point of his primary advantage. So after a while the story just kind of slows down or falls apart. Anyway thoughts?
  - aeonmyst 4y ago
    I liked it at the time due to its meta nature. Integrating suspension of disbelief as a core mechanic in its power system is very appealing for my unread ass. Reminds me of Pratchett's novels and how they handle the concept of "stories". I'd like to have more fantastical stuff to read that can take me along the ride of the author's mindset and problems while they weave their story :) Recommendations are welcome.
  - GenericPoster 4y ago
    > stor[ies] where MC has inside knowledge just get’s really repetitive after reading a few. Agreed. The series may start off fun or interesting but the novelty eventually wears off and you're left with a mediocre plot and generic characters. It's as if the creators have never once thought about how their series should end, their primary goal is to keep it going as long as possible. To be honest it's rare for me to actually complete a series. I'm usually hooked after the first 3 chapters, then 10-30 chapters later and it looks like a literal carbon copy of another series. It's gotten to the point where I stock up chapters for months then I read from where I left off. If I can't remember the vast majority of the plot, then I drop it. No point wasting my time on a forgettable story
thot_experiment 4y ago
Definitely makes it easier to find content tailored to your interests. Especially if your interests are fixed gear culture. https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/wind-breaker/list?title_no=372 https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/wind-breaker/list?title_n... (if anyone knows of any with a similar vibe, please link, think MASH/Cornfed/Lucas Brunelle)
turbobooster 4y ago
Any of the webtoons got anything similar to Fist of the Northstar?
Blackthorn 4y ago
Anecdotally, the Korean webtoons tend to come out faster and have quite detailed color art. This is despite Japan's manga industry being famously shitty for the drawers. Wonder how they keep up the pace in Korea.
- nitwit005 4y ago
  I always assumed it was more about cost to print. Manga is often colored, it's just usually only grey and black colors. Nice color printing does cost a lot more.
- jaegrqualm 4y ago
  Manga requires quite a bit of work for the editing and layout(no source on hand, but I've heard that it's the bulk of the time investment), which results in very nice to read pages, but webtoons just skip over that. Additionally, the standard for the amount of art/pagecount per release is deceptively much higher for manga, for better and for worse.
- langsoul-com 4y ago
  Webtoons are much shorter in pure content. There's TONS of padding. Also, pretty sure they shorten the chapters on purpose to make it have faster release cycles. Like have asian novels translated into English split the original into 3-5 parts. Then release multiple times a week or weekly.
  - Blackthorn 4y ago
    Sure but you still have to draw the padding. It shouldn't magically make it less work.
arzel 4y ago
highly recommend new readers check out ‘The Beginning After The End’ or ‘Solo Leveling’
screye 4y ago
> Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). The value of manga is really hard to put into a clear revenue value. Similar to Pokemon, the properties generate revenue in so many different formats, that the manga itself is merely a carrier for the property at large. The merch, computer games, pachinko and anime add up to a significantly bigger value than merely $2 billion. For ex: just the 3 biggest recent manga movies: 'Demon Slayer Mugen Train, One Piece Red, Jujutsu Kaisen 0' made a total of $1billion at the box office. I'm all for disruption in the manga business. The working conditions for the mangaka (authors) are inhumane and slavish. Early deaths and chronic health problems are the norm. But, Korean webtoons are nowhere close to the quality or economic value of manga just yet. 'Peerless Dad [1]' is the only one I've found so far that I'd recommend to everyone. Ofc, there is a lot of tropey-wish-fulfillment in the likes of Overgeared, Solo Leveling & Sword king, but 2/3 of those have ended up in the dreaded K-manwha churning powercreep and none of them do anything particularly new. [1] https://webtoon.kakao.com/content/%EC%95%84%EB%B9%84%EB%AC%B4%EC%8C%8D/1395 https://webtoon.kakao.com/content/%EC%95%84%EB%B9%84%EB%AC%B...
- djtango 4y ago
  Yep, many countries can access the latest chapters for free from official distribution channels and yet Oda of One Piece is estimated to have net worth over 200M. One Piece has spawned 56 video games, 18 movies, had a themed section in Tokyo Tower and a long tail of licensing on clothes, toys, snacks. I am not sure there is that kind of verticality on the web toons market yet BUT I have observed that there is an orthogonality to the recent new koreaboos and this wave (spurred by Squid Games, Black Pink, BTS etc) has pretty broad reach so let's see where this goes...
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Yes, and IMO people also put too much emphasis on which country the art comes from. While webtoons are primarily Korean at that point, Korean authors are also publishing manga in Japan and participate a lot in the anime/manga/game/illustration culture in general (same for Chinese or Taiwan artists, or from wherever they live really). The net and pervasive use of digital tools has really blended the borders, and there are many artists who happen to speak Japanese and publish in Japan, but come from different backgrounds. It's easy to see in the game or anime community (Korean/Taiwan studios are already at a very high quality level), the last Fire Emblem for instance has a Brazilian character designer. I also think the same thing is already happening in reverse, with Japanese artists going for the international market when their style would have more impact/better reception there.
PixelForg 4y ago
In my experience, manga are more detailed which is what I'll take over colored but less detailed stuff any day. And the huge spaces between the panels makes manwha even worse. Only manwha I've enjoyed reading is https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/the-sound-of-magic-annarasumanara/list?title_no=77&page=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/the-sound-of-magic-annaras...
blondin 4y ago
i grew up on japanese mangas and animes. that said, i wish south korean ideas win. excluding their k-pop frenzy. i don't check their webtoons often. but i am happy with their movies and some of their music. why? japanese animes and mangas have become one dimensional. high school boys and girls saving the world. the lack of imagination is outstanding. and if i was not attached to these shows, i would have canceled them eons ago. most of us would. they suck now.
- pigsty 4y ago
  Get outside of the top 20 and you’ll find innovation. This is true of any entertainment medium.
- strangeattractr 4y ago
  Yeah I feel the same way about food, all food is the same now. I eat at McDonald's every day and the menu barely ever changes, they only ever seem to offer variations of this meat between two pieces of bread concept.
- kayxspre 4y ago
  I rarely find anything that isn't in the genre of "Tensei" (Reincarnation) anymore except a few longstanding franchise, anime/manga with much hype (Demon Slayer), or something related to the voice actor. In the last case, I picked up Birdie Wing due to two big name VAs (Tōru Furuya and Shūichi Ikeda), and it doesn't disappoint me at all.
- langsoul-com 4y ago
  Troupes and cliches have always been huge in Asian stuff. It's just the volume of content is higher, thus it feels more repedative. But, this is true of all media really. Like the heroes journey, pixie girl (girl that comes outa nowhere and takes you on an adventure). Korean dramas have a up down peak cycle, high highs that crashes into a low low and repeat. Chinese has a lot of study study, work hard deal. Family drama or overly high amounts of social drama Or Japanese with their Japanese world view onto everyone lens. Ie nice main character and acts holier than thou.
School-Cotton 4y ago
Funny that the stock photo is of a French translation of Dragonball Z, rather than the Japanese original.
hisyam 4y ago
I find the manhwa format to be incredibly annoying because you have to scroll excessively thanks to the large gaps between panels.
- fendy3002 4y ago
  Well IMO the worst thing about webtoon / manhwa format is double spread, where it's achieved naturally when reading the traditional book-type manga, while in webtoon (solo leveling) sometimes it's rotated +/-90deg.
jqquah 4y ago
The attractiveness of webtoons is that it can be read on the mobile phone screen without too much zooming in. Manga's format has to change because it is a pain to be read on the phone.
- YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
  This is like saying "Novels have to change because they're a pain to read via Twitter". Or "Landscape painting has to change because it's boring to sit in a movie theatre and watch them on a slideshow". Let media play into their own strengths.
  - zinclozenge 4y ago
    If they don't, they might continue losing market share. Not to mention, there's nothing sacrosanct about the current format that can't be changed. In fact, there's a growing trend of Twitter based manga coming out.
    - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
      When artists start caring about 'market share' they stop being artists.
      - anotherman554 4y ago
        Any artist who makes a living on their art cares about market share- at least to the extent that they have to go back to having a day job if the market share gets low enough.
        YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
        Incorrect. They have to go back to their day job if their sales get low enough. If selling 1,000 units a year in a market of 10,000 units a year is enough, they don't suddenly starve if the market expands around them but they don't and now they're selling 1,000 units a year in a market of 100,000.
chocolatkey 4y ago
I actually happen to work in this industry, and this is definitely correct. We've actually shifting towards licensing more webtoons than manga, because in the digital world, manga doesn't sell very well (unless you're dealing with Shounen Jump content which is all taken anyway), and webtoons have a huge growing popularity. It's kind of funny when I look at our platform's stats, how the mobile audience is mainly webtoons and the web audience is mainly manga (and much smaller). The Japanese publishers definitely know this is a huge issue imo, unlike what this article says. It's hard not to when a Korean app combining webtoons and manga (Piccoma) has dominated the Japanese Play/Apple store's rankings and shown the publishers the potential of the market. It's kind of humiliating honestly. That's why they're trying to get in on the business by spinning up webtoon studios and doing manga -> webtoon conversions. Some are doing OK, most aren't. Note for anyone interested in entering the market: Korean webtoons currently consist mostly of a duopoly between Kakao and Naver. When a good webtoon is produced, the studio usually has to sign an exclusive contract with one of them, and they both have either launched platforms in all popular foreign languages, or have bought out the biggest ones, so squeezing in is not very easy. On that note, I'm very surprised this article doesn't mention the alternative: Chinese webtoons. They're pretty huge as well. Another fun fact: It's kind of hard to find "webtoons" if that's what you're looking for, because Naver tries to scare anyone who wants to use that word (they also own the "Webtoon" platform, which is larger than any other in existence in the foreign market). You'll see stuff like "Smarttoon", "Mangatoon", "Vericomix", and other made-up terms that really just mean webtoon.
- BlueTankEngine 4y ago
  You used the word humiliating, which I found so strong I had to check the numbers myself. They are every bit as shocking as you made it sound. Yet another area of Japanese culture that Korea/China has been able to just take minor steps to digitally modernize, and in turn exponentially improve it's globally mass-marketability. Korea did it in music, China (and to some extent Korea) has done it in gaming, and it really does seem like Korea/China have done it in comics. Thanks for the tip, info I've gained from the last few hours of reading due to your comment will hit the pages of at least a handful of my slide decks next year.
FuturisticLover 4y ago
In animation or anime, Japan is still the big player and is going to be for a long time. However, in live action, South Korea is easily has an upper hand. Movies like The Old Boy, Parasite, Train to Busan and show like Squid Game have an international appeal while rarely any live-action Japanese movie made that kind of impact.
a_c 4y ago
Is it same trend of turning long form content into bite size? Book into blog post into tweets. Documentary into [youtube] videos into tiktok. Or is it just a format change from book into mobile? Genuine question from someone first time hearing the term webtoon.
- b4je7d7wb 4y ago
  From my very limited experience it's just a format change.
- Aissen 4y ago
  It's definitely both. The episodic nature has some elements that go towards the first, since sometimes you need to "buy" the episodes, cliffhangers are encouraged, just like they are inside a modern fiction novel to keep the reader "hooked". And the publication schedule is nothing new, episodic novels, comics, etc. have existed for a very long time. The time it takes to produce episodes, like comics chapters, is not to be underestimated, so there's also an economic pressure.
magnio 4y ago
The Japanese manga industry is in dire need of reform and/or revolution, particularly on the working conditions of mangakas and all the involving staffs. However, content and culture are things that I see no webtoons capable of eclipsing Japanese manga (happy to be corrected; the only webtoon I've seriously followed is Peerless Dad). The manga spectrum is incredibly diverse. Jam-packed action sequences (Sakamoto Days, The Fable), rich and vividly crafted worldbuilding (One Piece, Otoyomegatari, Houseki no Kuni), mesmerizing artwork and paneling (Witch Hat Atelier, The Summer Hikaru Died, Black Paradox), and, above all, poignant narrative and unforgettable characters, where the stories vacillate between the historical, from the quest for gold of two impoverished Irishes (Katabami to Ougon) to the burgeoning of heliocentrism in medieval Europe (Chi: About the Movement of the Earth), the ordinary, like seeing the ghost of Jimi Hendrix (Shiori Experience), and the illusive, including the world of minerals and souls (Houseki no Kuni) or the world inbetween (Alice in Borderland), manga has everything to offer.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Mangaka work culture really depends on the specific place. In some it isn't too bad, but in many it is. I do think we only hear about the bad cases sometimes
  - conviencefee999 4y ago
    There is no standardization unlike in Korea where they're at least under the same roof, except for the fact that work conditions are the exact same with the only difference being a small and i mean almost near poverty levels guaranteed pay. Sometimes they like to argue they make more money as content creators, but that's not true as manhwas require much more artists meaning that they actually bring in less due to the requirements and coloring.
- radicalbyte 4y ago
  Draw-dropping art with amazing story (Berserk, Vagabond) and excellent real-world style mystery/thrillers (Monster, 20th Century Boys). The world culture in webtoons is worse than manga: one of the biggest - Tower of God - is on indefinite hiatus because the manwhaka has been broken by the non-stop work culture.
DocTomoe 4y ago
The article compares a market of a printed product (which is declining, and that's true for virtually ALL printed material) to a market of a purely digital distribution method (which is massively increasing, and that's true for virtually ALL digitally distributed material). It would be more honest to compare the digital manga market to the digital Korean webtoon market - but then you wouldn't be able to write a little-informed article putting one source of entertainment into decline as compared to another.
bowsamic 4y ago
I think manga still has a much greater cultural foothold than webtoons Also I read that 80% of Japanese adults read manga, so it will continue to exist even if it shrinks
stone-monkey 4y ago
Haven't really thought about it in depth, but it's been pretty interesting to see this play out in the American online scans scene as well. From my perspective, Japanese manga was basically the 800 lb gorilla that we were all consuming. At some point in my college days, I think around 2014, this one webcomic called The Gamer came out and was pretty popular. That's the first big Korean webtoon that I recall blowing up in popularity in the online webcomics scene. Actually, I take it back. Tower of God was another popular one as well. I can't remember when that one came out, but I mentally omitted it because I fell off the wagon myself - thought the series moved too slow throughout each season. After those two was Solo Leveling, which really blew up. The premise for SL was pretty generic power fantasy but good enough to entertain on a weekly basis. What really sold it though was the art. Nowadays, if you're reading online scans, you just as likely to run into a Korean webcomic than a Japanese one. (I'm ignoring stuff like the Breaker because I'm pretty sure that started as a print series - the webtoon stuff is a new wave of comics designed specifically for its vertical format) Recommendations: As someone mentioned earlier - Peerless Dad Administrator Kang Jin Lee (Same author as above - spin off series about one of the characters in the above comic) Legend of the Northern Blade Chronicles of the Heavenly Demon Skeleton Soldier Couldn't Protect the Dungeon (I like it, but admit it's inconsistent. Also, author really likes to emphasize sexual violence against women early on - it's pretty grotty.) Villain Unrivaled Return of the Crazy Demon Probably a lot of other series I like, but these are the ones from the top of my head that are generally pretty good.
- stone-monkey 4y ago
  Past Life Regressor is another one I just remembered - I wouldn't call it good, but it's more interesting than the typical action fare. Starts out with the most generic premise - fantasy earth where everyone has powers, and one guy lucks into being able to go back in time to do thing right the second time around. What makes this one interesting is that you'd expect this time reset to be about him doing the typical fantasy stuff where he becomes a super powered action hero because he knows everything that will happen beforehand. Instead, He uses his knowledge of the future to navigate the Asian financial crisis and enrich himself through day trading.
radicalbyte 4y ago
> Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). There was a massive paper shortage due to COVID combined with a big jump to digital. I've had a hard time finding chapters of One Piece due to this - if you don't pre-order you're too late. Also the latest box set of 20 volumes is at this point still unobtainium :(
deafpolygon 4y ago
Korean entertainment industry does well at exploiting what works. Korean webtoons are short, quick, updated frequently, accessible, easy to read on the phone, everyone has a mobile, and that is what is done. Not to mention that there is a culture of translating everything into English as quickly as possible in Korea. In contrast, mangas are often bought in book form (which are less and less attractive as time goes on), cost more, less accessible, and have a lower update frequency. Japanese entertainment industry are slow and reluctant to translate things into English. The value of manga is a bit less tangible, as they tend to be part of a larger entertainment strategy (along with toys, games, memorabilia).
amelius 4y ago
Soon DALL-e will eclipse them both.

190 points by pigtailgirl 4y ago

The term normally used is 'manhwa'. Webtoons can be from any place (and there are many Chinese ones too), manhwa is the Korean word for comics (so it can be physical or digital). Though slightly different, the words do get used interchangeably. Manhwa are very mobile friendly, the language is simple, and most notably they are colorful, which attracts audiences and makes it quite accessible. Compare it to some of the more dense manga you might read where sometimes a panel requires a lot of pinching and zooming. For sure though, as the article points out, there are a lot of amazing and intriguing stories in manga, which have better story density compared to the thinner, spread out stories in manhwa which are catering to an audience that just wants to keep scrolling. The artstyle too, I don't think we're going to see anything close to Junji Ito or Berserk style work in webtoon format anytime soon. But anyway this trend of manhwa's popularity has been noticeable for several years now. The top entries on manga 'aggregator' sites have been manhwa as well.

poglet 4y ago
> sometimes a panel requires a lot of pinching and zooming. The iPad (12.9") is what got me into comics and manga, the screen size is almost perfect so it's a very pleasant experience.
- terrorOf 4y ago
  It is not a form factor everyone takes everywhere. Webtoon can be read comfortably anywhere anytime with mobile phone pretty much everyone has in the hand or in the pocket. That is huger difference.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    I think in Japan most manga is still read on paper
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  Do you read 2 pages at a time in landscape mode? I like reading manga on my 11” iPad (in portrait mode), but IIUC this is actually significantly larger than print manga.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    On my 12.9" I read one page at a time in portrait. The size is nice since it lets me see the details and small text well without holding the tablet close to my face or zooming. The 11" model is a very good size for manga reading and allows for this too, though. 11" is my preferred size actually, but I went for the 12.9" instead to be able to better test apps on that model — an app designed for 11" only will have a lot of wasted space running on a 12.9". The miniLED backlighting is nice too, wish that 11" had that.
falcolas 4y ago
Well said, and I agree with every point. I love Solo Leveling, and it’s very much action based like Berserk, but it will never reach the same depths of emotion Berserk can elicit. Caveat emptor: I’ve worked on both manhwa and manga as a scanlation (unofficial translations) proofreader.
- worthless-trash 4y ago
  Thank you for your work.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    It's fun (well, when you're working on one you enjoy), and there's plenty of need. If you're on Mangadex, just look for the requests teams are making as part of their headers or footers in scanlated chapters. It's how I found my way in. Proofreaders in scanlation are basically touching up the translations to make them read well in English (tenses and idioms that don't always translate well), as well as checking for consistency between chapters in tone and spelling.
- franciscop 4y ago
  True, but one of the things I loved of Solo Leveling (it's finished, right?) is that some times the colors are AMAZING, like there were some panels where I would just stop and get lost in the art for a bit, while that rarely happened to me with black and white manga. Even when it DID happen with manga, it's literally missing an order of magnitude, so IMHO peak manga B&W can barely compare with peak full-color art (and I'm not even saying Solo Leveling is top-level color art, what I'm saying is that it's "very good" and with that it beats "top level" B&W any day IMHO).
  - falcolas 4y ago
    I cant disagree that color art has dimensions to it that black and white (and halftones) can’t quite reach. But to say that color alone makes it better than greyscale… No, I can not agree with that. A matter of taste? Perhaps. But there is some absurdly beautiful art in Manga too. Starkness, working within constraints, has its own beauty. And, as an aside, full color manga is becoming a thing too. More and more full color webtoon style comics are coming from Japan; from mangaka.
et-al 4y ago
Manhwa, mànhuà, manga... 漫画. Ultimately, it's all in line with the rise of South Korea. 1980s : Japan :: 2010s : S. Korea
userbinator 4y ago
It's worth noting that manga, manwha, manhua, are slightly different ways to pronounce what are essentially the same characters which mean "comics" across those respective languages: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%BC%AB%E7%95%AB https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%BC%AB%E7%95%AB
- numpad0 4y ago
  I think that's because Korean and Chinese usages are loanword from Japanese manga. Japanese version of Wikipedia traces etymology back to 17th-18th century pseudo-Chinese word, later extended to include Western comics which became the roots of modern day manga.
syntheweave 4y ago
Manhwa have definitely had more of a strict formula to them than most other contemporary comics, at least the ones I've viewed. Most of the stories seem to be copy-pastes of a "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy, with characterizations falling along class and gender stereotypes. Illustrations are likewise industrial in nature, using the same posable doll figures to churn out basic talking head + fighting panels. I can't recall one that did good establishing shots or worked the vertical layout for interesting composition. That said, I still read the stuff on occasion. It's still comics, and not far in the adherence to formula.
- GuB-42 4y ago
  Isn't the "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy make the majority of the manga market, at least in the west? Manga and anime is very diverse, and yet, only the "shounen" style seems to represented, and that's not even the full spectrum of what shounen has to offer. I don't know much about manhwa, maybe there is more depth to what we are served, or maybe it is just that they just focused on what is commercially successful.
  - SllX 4y ago
    > Isn't the "weak guy becomes tough guy" power fantasy make the majority of the manga market, at least in the west? Shōnen is probably the bigger market, but it’s worth noting that the key to the “style” is that it’s the term for the target market: young boys. There is usually a power accumulation fantasy, but more accurately these are typically coming-of-age stories. So: Shōnen: Young Boys Shōjo: Young Girls Seinen: Young Men Josei: Ladies (there is also a separate category for “Young Ladies”) As you can see, these are less genre terms and more demographic terms.
  - gotbeans 4y ago
    Additionally in manhuas, some non so usual topice are overreepresented, like a _lot_ of shonnen manhuas about business character success/CEO kind of stuff.
    - astrange 4y ago
MichaelZuo 4y ago
The medium is the message.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kixiQu 4y ago
I must disagree. It's accurate that the word "webtoon" can refer to Chinese webtoons as well – but "webtoon" is what is used to refer to digital publication + the style of panel layout designed to be swiped vertically on a screen. "Manhwa" predate and extend beyond this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goong_(manhwa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goong_(manhwa) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House_(manhwa) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_House_(manhwa) are two that got big and were adapted to hell and back) being the general term for Korean comics – which, in the print era, had the typical print layout. I think it's worthwhile to be precise in these conversations because there are Japanese webtoons as well these days, which would properly constitute "manga" as well, and if we're mixing up all the "comics" words from different languages with the trends in their formats, it's going to be a pain to discuss.
- t3rra 4y ago
  True. In Korea, we never say Japanese comics, manga, but just say Japanese manhwa. It is only a generic term for comics/cartoons.
- politelemon 4y ago
  Yes as I've said they are different, but get used interchangeably. You can try your best to be precise in the conversations but there is too much incorrect momentum behind the wrong words sadly! It's like calling things fonts when you actually mean typeface. Or GPS when you actually mean GNSS.
  - kixiQu 4y ago
    I mean, one thing said was "Manhwa are very mobile friendly, the language is simple, and most notably they are colorful" which is true of "webtoons", not of "manhwa". I don't agree that there's too much incorrect momentum behind the words; what I see in fan/piracy circles tends to be pretty clear about it.
ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
> The term normally used is 'manhwa'. I don't know about English usage, but in Korean these are different concepts. "Manhwa" (만화, maan-hwaa) means "comics", usually in print. The Korean word for an online comic is "webtoon" (웹툰, ooeb-toon). This is the usage, for example, on Naver: NAVER 웹툰 is the title of https://comic.naver.com https://comic.naver.com. Of course the webtoons borrow a lot from manhwa style, but one buys/rents manhwa at a store and reads webtoons on the subway. So they are different concepts and "webtoon" is the proper Korean term for this phenomenon.
- t3rra 4y ago
  Still people can say "reading manhwa" when they read webtoon. Webtoon is still manhwa. I also say I read 만화 to my friend who read on Naver and Daum, who also often say 만화
- ahmadmijot 4y ago
  For (at least within scanlation scene) english usage: Manga is comic originated from Japan Manhwa is comic originated from Korea Manhua is comic originated from China
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Ruthalas 4y ago
    This is also what I have seen in other online communities that aggregate such works.
  - orthoxerox 4y ago
    "Tank is an armored vehicle originated in the UK, char d'assaut is an armored vehicle originated in France, Panzer is an armored vehicle originated in Germany." It's fine to call them all "tanks" and it's fine to call all East Asian comics "comics" or even "manga".
    - anotherman554 4y ago
astonex 4y ago
In Korea, Manhwa tends to refer to printed comics like Manga, whilst Webtoon refers to online digital comics.
- t3rra 4y ago
  Still in Korea, people often say "read manhwa" on (webtoon platform). Webtoon is just a digital version of manhwa but not separate thing.
CiceroCiceronis 4y ago
I was talking to a friend the other day about how it feels like manhua/longstrip webtoon comics has yet to experience its creative peak. Looking back at the history of manga, it is possible to see how new innovations have played with and manipulated standard ideas of paneling and framing to produce fascinating and artistic work. A seemingly constrained format (small-size black-and-white comic book) becomes a canvas for extraordinary creative expression. Longstrip comics are not worse than manga, of course, but it feels like creators have yet to explore the edges of the format. What can a longstrip do that a traditional book can’t? How can the limitations of the format be turned into strengths? I wonder if this will come to pass, and how long it will take.
- bnjms 4y ago
  Have you seen this story (must be non-mobile)? http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=31 http://comic.naver.com/webtoon/detail.nhn?titleId=350217&no=... If you’re mobile the scrolling breaks. Otherwise it’s an interesting example of the medium.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sudomatic 4y ago
Oh, I see. I didn't realize that the term "manhwa" was specifically used for Korean comics. I always just thought it was a general term for any type of webcomic. It's interesting to hear about the differences between manga and manhwa. It sounds like manhwa are more accessible and mobile-friendly, but that manga has a higher story density and more complex art styles. I suppose it's all a matter of personal preference.
lvl102 4y ago
You don’t have to comment if you don’t actually know. What you just said is quite wrong.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Mistletoe 4y ago

Can someone link me a webtoon so I can see the difference? Googling wasn’t great. Edit: Nevermind, found one with English translation. https://m.webtoons.com/en/romance/truebeauty/spin-off-4/viewer?title_no=1436&episode_no=228 https://m.webtoons.com/en/romance/truebeauty/spin-off-4/view... Yes seems perfectly suited for mobile consumption.

falcolas 4y ago
Solo Leveling. I'm mentioning it all over here, but it's a great example of the style, the artwork, and the stories (at least the OP MC ones). It also has official English ebooks coming out.
Kuinox 4y ago
This one doesn't even profit much of the vertical height, it looks like a regular paper page format adapted to a vertical screen. These days, a lot of high quality webtoons profit a lot of the vertical screen and make drawing that would be hard to put on paper without cutting it: https://www.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/episode-0-prologue/viewer?title_no=2154&episode_no=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/episode...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

boomboomsubban 4y ago

https://archive.vn/aesfl https://archive.vn/aesfl

monetus 4y ago

A shout out to the art of metaphorical her - a great change from the pulp webtoons https://m.webtoons.com/en/drama/metaphorical-her/list?title_no=1475&page=1&webtoon-platform-redirect=true https://m.webtoons.com/en/drama/metaphorical-her/list?title_... Edit: also a nod to what seemed to be Stan lee's last venture, the webtoon backchannel - still the only webtoon I can think of that had some animations included. https://m.webtoons.com/en/super-hero/backchannel/list?title_no=1456&page=1&webtoon-platform-redirect=true https://m.webtoons.com/en/super-hero/backchannel/list?title_...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rippercushions 4y ago

Advertising has a large part to play here as well: https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/43985/webtoon-comics-platform-running-multi-million-dollar-ad-campaign-tv-web-theaters-outdoor https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/43985/webtoon-comics-pla... And it's not just this one company: I don't read comics of any description (with the arguable exception of xkcd), but at one point my social media ads were saturated with borderline-NSFW spam for Korean porn comics. I was genuinely surprised the ads was allowed by the Google/Meta morality police, and after enough not interested/not appropriate reports it did stop as suddenly as it started. Or maybe they just ran out of ad budget?

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
South Korea has made cultural export part of their industrial policy. It's very different from Japan whose executives still don't care about non Japanese and was 100% organic until CR saw a chance to profit off the difference but that still doesn't campare to SK. In my opinion it cheapens the medium to an extent. Not sure if the US does this too or if hollywood success is mostly organic. Certainly anime had seen the most organic growth of a market until CR, funi, Netflix et al ruined it.
- yongjik 4y ago
  TBH, I think it's more like the SK government trying to bank on the unexpected popularity of Korean culture, to which the government itself had contributed little. Frequently the government actively got in the way: the director Bong Joon-Ho and actor Song Kang-Ho, of Parasite fame, had been both on the infamous "cultural blacklist" maintained by Park Geun-hye's conservative government, for being "leftist artists." I agree that blatant money-grabbing attempts do cheapen the art from time to time, but you don't really need the government's help for that.
  - Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
    It seems SK has been in this game for a long time: >In 1997-1998, South Korea was in the midst of a financial crisis. It required a substantial loan from the International Monetary Fund to restructure its debt and it left South Korea, at the time, with a tarnished national brand. Fearing a brain drain and an inability to attract top talent, a Ministry of Culture (alongside tourism and sport) was created, with a specific department responsible for developing locally made and owned pop music, along with film, fashion, dance and art. This coincided with the end of state censorship (in 1996) and the removal of a cultural embargo with Japan in 2000, which led to an upsurge in Japanese consumption of Korean culture, prompting a need to meet the demand of the new audience. Music, along with other forms of culture, was seen as a way to accelerate economic recovery, so policies to support cultural development and investment to support the making and marketing of music were made. This was not funding. This was an investment. By 2011, K-Pop was finding new audiences around the world, including a sell out showcase at New York City’s Madison Square Garden.[0] From wikipedia: >President Kim Dae Jung put forth industrial policies supporting entertainment with the same regard as traditional industrial sectors such as manufacturing. Investments were made in both infrastructure and technology to support K-Pop, including concert halls and visual effects technology. In addition, government regulation of karaoke bars favored K-Pop.[6] >Since then, there has been a focus on developing soft power; the Ministry believes that by promoting Korean culture abroad, exports of other goods and services will also increase. As part of those efforts to move beyond developing a domestic industry and toward international success, the Ministry established an advisory committee and announced an international training school. Direct financial support of artists increased. In 2013, the Ministry allocated 319 billion won (US$280 million) for direct support of Hallyu (Korean Wave). Cultural exports increased at an annual rate of 10 percent as a result of these efforts.[7] If this aspect is overstated, at the very least the SK industry itself has focused on foreign markets: >During the late 90s, talent agencies began to market K-pop stars by implementing an idol business model used in J-pop,[91] where talents are selected and trained to appeal to a global audience through formal lessons or through residency programs.[2] While K-pop is compared to J-pop here, note that the comparison is the idol system, not the foreign marketing, which did not happen in Japan to my knowledge. Edit: perhaps I'm wrong, from my own link: >Despite popular internet speculation on the Korean government's financial support for the promotion of K-Pop, there are no figures to substantiate the speculation. In 2013, of the $230 million allocated for Hallyu, there are itemized contributions to the promotion of the Korean language, culture and food but no known figures for allocations directly to K-Pop. [0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/shainshapiro/2021/07/06/want-proof-investing-in-music-works-look-at-south-korea/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/shainshapiro/2021/07/06/want-pr... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Culture,_Sports_and_Tourism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Culture,_Sports_an... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-pop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-pop

anigbrowl 4y ago

Big 'telenovelas are the future of entertainment' energy. Not to run down these innovations, but evaluating success purely in terms of short-duration financial return seems like a mistake. As long as something is best summarized as 'like X for Y', X is still the elephant in the room. I'm sure we'll see other waves of this as other countries where the legwork of anime is outsourced to (eg Vietnam) starts producing domestic & international success stories.

hakfoo 4y ago
There's probably some value in the argument of "there are missing spots in the traditional American media marketplace, and right now they're being filled with imported products." I never really got into American comics, but I have shelves full of manga/manhwa. There's probably things that can to be cherry-picked from it: * Improved availability to consume the entire franchise. Even one of the worst of the worst, One Piece, is basically a single straight run of 101 (currently) books which are easily obtainable. If I wanted to read "all of Spider-Man", it's likely hundreds of volumes across dozens of sub-titles, some of which are essentally unobtainable except as expensive collectibles. * Little to no "Cinematic Universe" stuff; this ties into the above concept; I don't need to follow twelve other series to know about the single story I've become invested in. * The classic "Weekly Jump" style phone-book magazine format is almost a proto-subscription in terms of risk aversion and explorability. If you know you already like one or two products, you can safely buy the (impossibly cheap) book, which gives you chance to explore the other 18 titles in there. * Some of the zanier premises that work out. One of my favourites was Eyeshield 21, a 37-volume story which effectively turned high school football into a shonen battle drama. Could that have flown even in the US?
- MattDemers 4y ago
  It also helps that it is extremely rare to see a manga have a rotating creative team, so you get a much more consistent story and tone, the whole way through. Having a creator come onto an American comic with a specific enthusiasm for one specific character, theme or trope, and have that dominate for years of that creators' tenure, is really annoying. Also, that creator needing to be aware of previous history (or choosing to ignore it entirely) means you're getting a mixed bag. I lost interest in Western comics after DC rebooted their universe ("Which time?" you ask? New 52) and it became clear that unless your favourite character was marquee (Superman, Batman, etc), it was completely out of control what was going to change or be ignored about their history. I ended up thinking "if comics aren't going to respect me as a reader, why am I staying around?" This, of course, got worse with the advent of the MCU and its imitators. Western comics are mostly just idea factories for films now; the "big name" creatives of the past are largely retired, or writing for TV/movies, and the people replacing them have nowhere near the vision (or freedom from Marvel or DC) to create compelling stories. Manga is completely demolishing Western comics' sales at every turn, and Oda being able to craft twenty years of a narrative (while making me feel rewarded for investing) is an amazing feat.

makeitdouble 4y ago

> Yet Japanese manga are being eclipsed by Korean webtoons. Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). The size of the global webtoons market was meanwhile valued at $3.7bn—and projected to reach $56bn by 2030. Manga market is valued at 4.5bn USD (613 bn JPY)[0] so we’re not there yet. On the format part, it’s interesting to see manga publishers adapting to smartphones and sometimes have two versions published: one vertically scrollable “decomposed” stream of the story, and a “recomposed” book format version sold as comic book in the traditional way. Line manga does that, and I’d expect a bunch more companies to have made the move. All in all, good ideas spread fast in those spheres, and the article’s “The industry’s business model has hardly changed since the 1960s” tagline is I think misleading regarding the industry’s ability to adapt. https://www.statista.com/topics/7559/manga-industry-in-japan/#topicHeader__wrapper https://www.statista.com/topics/7559/manga-industry-in-japan...

bluepizza 4y ago
> The size of the global webtoons market was meanwhile valued at $3.7bn—and projected to reach $56bn by 2030. This is called wishful thinking. The research was ordered by webtoons producers.
- deathofmurat 4y ago
  These are incredibly agressive growth estimates, but many competitors in the manga/comics space are rushing to grab their proverbial pieces of pie - disclaimer: this is anecdotal from experience working in the field
  - bluepizza 4y ago
    Those growth estimates are assuming there is more pie. We've seen this over and over again, from telenovelas to anime to k-drama - the pie is never that large.
- olliecornelia 4y ago
  https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E11/289555.jpg?b64lines=SUYgVEhFU0UgVFJFTkRTCkNPTlRJTlVFLi4uIEFBWSE= https://frinkiac.com/meme/S08E11/289555.jpg?b64lines=SUYgVEh...

KaoruAoiShiho 4y ago

I have a tablet that I want to read webtoons on because I don't want to use a tiny phone screen, it's basically impossible. The spaces between the panels are way too big. So I basically never read webtoons and stick exclusively to manga... If anyone knows a service that "fixes" the webtoons for me that would be great.

Waterluvian 4y ago
I wonder if this runs the risk of changing the medium enough that things sometimes don’t work as the creator intended. Like when Manga is fixed to be right to left for non-Japanese audiences, sometimes it breaks things.
lidavidm 4y ago
A few of the more popular webtoons have now been reformatted for print (e.g. Villains are Destined to Die, Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke's Mansion). Those have both physical and digital copies, and use the normal page size.

oneoff786 4y ago

I have only a vague awareness of manga, but I feel like all of the famous ones are men whereas this article features several female authors. Is that noteworthy?

goosedragons 4y ago
No because there is several famous female manga authors. Rumiko Takahashi is probably the biggest one, did Inuyasha and Ranma 1/2 among others, then you got Hiromu Arakawa who did Fullmetal Alchemist, and Naoko Takeuchi who created Sailor Moon, CLAMP the female team behind Cardcaptor Sakura, Chobits and others. I'm sure there's a lot more in the Josei side of things I don't read too much and aren't as popular in the West too.
zmgsabst 4y ago
Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Cardcaptor Sakura, and Full Metal Alchemist were all female authors — and animes you could watch on US tv.

the_lonely_road 4y ago

If you have never given a Korean webtoon a chance and are into video games / fantasy themed anime I recommend you give omniscient reader a chance. https://m.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/list?title_no=2154&page=1 https://m.webtoons.com/en/action/omniscient-reader/list?titl... It’s become pretty popular with Korean American streamers on Twitch and has of course spread to the rest of us via listening to them talk about it. I quite enjoyed it and hope that a Korean animated scene pops up to match the Japanese Anime one because this would be a great anime.

Retric 4y ago
I came across that one before but found it incredibly derivative and boring. The arbitrary rules apocalyptic story where MC has inside knowledge just get’s really repetitive after reading a few. The MC is kept as bland as possible for wider appeal, but the supporting characters can’t both pick up the slack and constantly be killed off to keep tension. Worse if they actually keep up with the MC’s progression then what’s the point of his primary advantage. So after a while the story just kind of slows down or falls apart. Anyway thoughts?
- aeonmyst 4y ago
  I liked it at the time due to its meta nature. Integrating suspension of disbelief as a core mechanic in its power system is very appealing for my unread ass. Reminds me of Pratchett's novels and how they handle the concept of "stories". I'd like to have more fantastical stuff to read that can take me along the ride of the author's mindset and problems while they weave their story :) Recommendations are welcome.
- GenericPoster 4y ago
  > stor[ies] where MC has inside knowledge just get’s really repetitive after reading a few. Agreed. The series may start off fun or interesting but the novelty eventually wears off and you're left with a mediocre plot and generic characters. It's as if the creators have never once thought about how their series should end, their primary goal is to keep it going as long as possible. To be honest it's rare for me to actually complete a series. I'm usually hooked after the first 3 chapters, then 10-30 chapters later and it looks like a literal carbon copy of another series. It's gotten to the point where I stock up chapters for months then I read from where I left off. If I can't remember the vast majority of the plot, then I drop it. No point wasting my time on a forgettable story

thot_experiment 4y ago

Definitely makes it easier to find content tailored to your interests. Especially if your interests are fixed gear culture. https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/wind-breaker/list?title_no=372 https://www.webtoons.com/en/sports/wind-breaker/list?title_n... (if anyone knows of any with a similar vibe, please link, think MASH/Cornfed/Lucas Brunelle)

turbobooster 4y ago

Any of the webtoons got anything similar to Fist of the Northstar?

Blackthorn 4y ago

Anecdotally, the Korean webtoons tend to come out faster and have quite detailed color art. This is despite Japan's manga industry being famously shitty for the drawers. Wonder how they keep up the pace in Korea.

nitwit005 4y ago
I always assumed it was more about cost to print. Manga is often colored, it's just usually only grey and black colors. Nice color printing does cost a lot more.
jaegrqualm 4y ago
Manga requires quite a bit of work for the editing and layout(no source on hand, but I've heard that it's the bulk of the time investment), which results in very nice to read pages, but webtoons just skip over that. Additionally, the standard for the amount of art/pagecount per release is deceptively much higher for manga, for better and for worse.
langsoul-com 4y ago
Webtoons are much shorter in pure content. There's TONS of padding. Also, pretty sure they shorten the chapters on purpose to make it have faster release cycles. Like have asian novels translated into English split the original into 3-5 parts. Then release multiple times a week or weekly.
- Blackthorn 4y ago
  Sure but you still have to draw the padding. It shouldn't magically make it less work.

arzel 4y ago

highly recommend new readers check out ‘The Beginning After The End’ or ‘Solo Leveling’

screye 4y ago

> Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). The value of manga is really hard to put into a clear revenue value. Similar to Pokemon, the properties generate revenue in so many different formats, that the manga itself is merely a carrier for the property at large. The merch, computer games, pachinko and anime add up to a significantly bigger value than merely $2 billion. For ex: just the 3 biggest recent manga movies: 'Demon Slayer Mugen Train, One Piece Red, Jujutsu Kaisen 0' made a total of $1billion at the box office. I'm all for disruption in the manga business. The working conditions for the mangaka (authors) are inhumane and slavish. Early deaths and chronic health problems are the norm. But, Korean webtoons are nowhere close to the quality or economic value of manga just yet. 'Peerless Dad [1]' is the only one I've found so far that I'd recommend to everyone. Ofc, there is a lot of tropey-wish-fulfillment in the likes of Overgeared, Solo Leveling & Sword king, but 2/3 of those have ended up in the dreaded K-manwha churning powercreep and none of them do anything particularly new. [1] https://webtoon.kakao.com/content/%EC%95%84%EB%B9%84%EB%AC%B4%EC%8C%8D/1395 https://webtoon.kakao.com/content/%EC%95%84%EB%B9%84%EB%AC%B...

djtango 4y ago
Yep, many countries can access the latest chapters for free from official distribution channels and yet Oda of One Piece is estimated to have net worth over 200M. One Piece has spawned 56 video games, 18 movies, had a themed section in Tokyo Tower and a long tail of licensing on clothes, toys, snacks. I am not sure there is that kind of verticality on the web toons market yet BUT I have observed that there is an orthogonality to the recent new koreaboos and this wave (spurred by Squid Games, Black Pink, BTS etc) has pretty broad reach so let's see where this goes...
makeitdouble 4y ago
Yes, and IMO people also put too much emphasis on which country the art comes from. While webtoons are primarily Korean at that point, Korean authors are also publishing manga in Japan and participate a lot in the anime/manga/game/illustration culture in general (same for Chinese or Taiwan artists, or from wherever they live really). The net and pervasive use of digital tools has really blended the borders, and there are many artists who happen to speak Japanese and publish in Japan, but come from different backgrounds. It's easy to see in the game or anime community (Korean/Taiwan studios are already at a very high quality level), the last Fire Emblem for instance has a Brazilian character designer. I also think the same thing is already happening in reverse, with Japanese artists going for the international market when their style would have more impact/better reception there.

PixelForg 4y ago

In my experience, manga are more detailed which is what I'll take over colored but less detailed stuff any day. And the huge spaces between the panels makes manwha even worse. Only manwha I've enjoyed reading is https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/the-sound-of-magic-annarasumanara/list?title_no=77&page=1 https://www.webtoons.com/en/drama/the-sound-of-magic-annaras...

blondin 4y ago

i grew up on japanese mangas and animes. that said, i wish south korean ideas win. excluding their k-pop frenzy. i don't check their webtoons often. but i am happy with their movies and some of their music. why? japanese animes and mangas have become one dimensional. high school boys and girls saving the world. the lack of imagination is outstanding. and if i was not attached to these shows, i would have canceled them eons ago. most of us would. they suck now.

pigsty 4y ago
Get outside of the top 20 and you’ll find innovation. This is true of any entertainment medium.
strangeattractr 4y ago
Yeah I feel the same way about food, all food is the same now. I eat at McDonald's every day and the menu barely ever changes, they only ever seem to offer variations of this meat between two pieces of bread concept.
kayxspre 4y ago
I rarely find anything that isn't in the genre of "Tensei" (Reincarnation) anymore except a few longstanding franchise, anime/manga with much hype (Demon Slayer), or something related to the voice actor. In the last case, I picked up Birdie Wing due to two big name VAs (Tōru Furuya and Shūichi Ikeda), and it doesn't disappoint me at all.
langsoul-com 4y ago
Troupes and cliches have always been huge in Asian stuff. It's just the volume of content is higher, thus it feels more repedative. But, this is true of all media really. Like the heroes journey, pixie girl (girl that comes outa nowhere and takes you on an adventure). Korean dramas have a up down peak cycle, high highs that crashes into a low low and repeat. Chinese has a lot of study study, work hard deal. Family drama or overly high amounts of social drama Or Japanese with their Japanese world view onto everyone lens. Ie nice main character and acts holier than thou.

School-Cotton 4y ago

Funny that the stock photo is of a French translation of Dragonball Z, rather than the Japanese original.

hisyam 4y ago

I find the manhwa format to be incredibly annoying because you have to scroll excessively thanks to the large gaps between panels.

fendy3002 4y ago
Well IMO the worst thing about webtoon / manhwa format is double spread, where it's achieved naturally when reading the traditional book-type manga, while in webtoon (solo leveling) sometimes it's rotated +/-90deg.

jqquah 4y ago

The attractiveness of webtoons is that it can be read on the mobile phone screen without too much zooming in. Manga's format has to change because it is a pain to be read on the phone.

YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
This is like saying "Novels have to change because they're a pain to read via Twitter". Or "Landscape painting has to change because it's boring to sit in a movie theatre and watch them on a slideshow". Let media play into their own strengths.
- zinclozenge 4y ago
  If they don't, they might continue losing market share. Not to mention, there's nothing sacrosanct about the current format that can't be changed. In fact, there's a growing trend of Twitter based manga coming out.
  - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
    When artists start caring about 'market share' they stop being artists.
    - anotherman554 4y ago
      Any artist who makes a living on their art cares about market share- at least to the extent that they have to go back to having a day job if the market share gets low enough.
      - YurgenJurgensen 4y ago
        Incorrect. They have to go back to their day job if their sales get low enough. If selling 1,000 units a year in a market of 10,000 units a year is enough, they don't suddenly starve if the market expands around them but they don't and now they're selling 1,000 units a year in a market of 100,000.

chocolatkey 4y ago

I actually happen to work in this industry, and this is definitely correct. We've actually shifting towards licensing more webtoons than manga, because in the digital world, manga doesn't sell very well (unless you're dealing with Shounen Jump content which is all taken anyway), and webtoons have a huge growing popularity. It's kind of funny when I look at our platform's stats, how the mobile audience is mainly webtoons and the web audience is mainly manga (and much smaller). The Japanese publishers definitely know this is a huge issue imo, unlike what this article says. It's hard not to when a Korean app combining webtoons and manga (Piccoma) has dominated the Japanese Play/Apple store's rankings and shown the publishers the potential of the market. It's kind of humiliating honestly. That's why they're trying to get in on the business by spinning up webtoon studios and doing manga -> webtoon conversions. Some are doing OK, most aren't. Note for anyone interested in entering the market: Korean webtoons currently consist mostly of a duopoly between Kakao and Naver. When a good webtoon is produced, the studio usually has to sign an exclusive contract with one of them, and they both have either launched platforms in all popular foreign languages, or have bought out the biggest ones, so squeezing in is not very easy. On that note, I'm very surprised this article doesn't mention the alternative: Chinese webtoons. They're pretty huge as well. Another fun fact: It's kind of hard to find "webtoons" if that's what you're looking for, because Naver tries to scare anyone who wants to use that word (they also own the "Webtoon" platform, which is larger than any other in existence in the foreign market). You'll see stuff like "Smarttoon", "Mangatoon", "Vericomix", and other made-up terms that really just mean webtoon.

BlueTankEngine 4y ago
You used the word humiliating, which I found so strong I had to check the numbers myself. They are every bit as shocking as you made it sound. Yet another area of Japanese culture that Korea/China has been able to just take minor steps to digitally modernize, and in turn exponentially improve it's globally mass-marketability. Korea did it in music, China (and to some extent Korea) has done it in gaming, and it really does seem like Korea/China have done it in comics. Thanks for the tip, info I've gained from the last few hours of reading due to your comment will hit the pages of at least a handful of my slide decks next year.

FuturisticLover 4y ago

In animation or anime, Japan is still the big player and is going to be for a long time. However, in live action, South Korea is easily has an upper hand. Movies like The Old Boy, Parasite, Train to Busan and show like Squid Game have an international appeal while rarely any live-action Japanese movie made that kind of impact.

a_c 4y ago

Is it same trend of turning long form content into bite size? Book into blog post into tweets. Documentary into [youtube] videos into tiktok. Or is it just a format change from book into mobile? Genuine question from someone first time hearing the term webtoon.

b4je7d7wb 4y ago
From my very limited experience it's just a format change.
Aissen 4y ago
It's definitely both. The episodic nature has some elements that go towards the first, since sometimes you need to "buy" the episodes, cliffhangers are encouraged, just like they are inside a modern fiction novel to keep the reader "hooked". And the publication schedule is nothing new, episodic novels, comics, etc. have existed for a very long time. The time it takes to produce episodes, like comics chapters, is not to be underestimated, so there's also an economic pressure.

magnio 4y ago

The Japanese manga industry is in dire need of reform and/or revolution, particularly on the working conditions of mangakas and all the involving staffs. However, content and culture are things that I see no webtoons capable of eclipsing Japanese manga (happy to be corrected; the only webtoon I've seriously followed is Peerless Dad). The manga spectrum is incredibly diverse. Jam-packed action sequences (Sakamoto Days, The Fable), rich and vividly crafted worldbuilding (One Piece, Otoyomegatari, Houseki no Kuni), mesmerizing artwork and paneling (Witch Hat Atelier, The Summer Hikaru Died, Black Paradox), and, above all, poignant narrative and unforgettable characters, where the stories vacillate between the historical, from the quest for gold of two impoverished Irishes (Katabami to Ougon) to the burgeoning of heliocentrism in medieval Europe (Chi: About the Movement of the Earth), the ordinary, like seeing the ghost of Jimi Hendrix (Shiori Experience), and the illusive, including the world of minerals and souls (Houseki no Kuni) or the world inbetween (Alice in Borderland), manga has everything to offer.

bowsamic 4y ago
Mangaka work culture really depends on the specific place. In some it isn't too bad, but in many it is. I do think we only hear about the bad cases sometimes
- conviencefee999 4y ago
  There is no standardization unlike in Korea where they're at least under the same roof, except for the fact that work conditions are the exact same with the only difference being a small and i mean almost near poverty levels guaranteed pay. Sometimes they like to argue they make more money as content creators, but that's not true as manhwas require much more artists meaning that they actually bring in less due to the requirements and coloring.
radicalbyte 4y ago
Draw-dropping art with amazing story (Berserk, Vagabond) and excellent real-world style mystery/thrillers (Monster, 20th Century Boys). The world culture in webtoons is worse than manga: one of the biggest - Tower of God - is on indefinite hiatus because the manwhaka has been broken by the non-stop work culture.

DocTomoe 4y ago

The article compares a market of a printed product (which is declining, and that's true for virtually ALL printed material) to a market of a purely digital distribution method (which is massively increasing, and that's true for virtually ALL digitally distributed material). It would be more honest to compare the digital manga market to the digital Korean webtoon market - but then you wouldn't be able to write a little-informed article putting one source of entertainment into decline as compared to another.

bowsamic 4y ago

I think manga still has a much greater cultural foothold than webtoons Also I read that 80% of Japanese adults read manga, so it will continue to exist even if it shrinks

stone-monkey 4y ago

Haven't really thought about it in depth, but it's been pretty interesting to see this play out in the American online scans scene as well. From my perspective, Japanese manga was basically the 800 lb gorilla that we were all consuming. At some point in my college days, I think around 2014, this one webcomic called The Gamer came out and was pretty popular. That's the first big Korean webtoon that I recall blowing up in popularity in the online webcomics scene. Actually, I take it back. Tower of God was another popular one as well. I can't remember when that one came out, but I mentally omitted it because I fell off the wagon myself - thought the series moved too slow throughout each season. After those two was Solo Leveling, which really blew up. The premise for SL was pretty generic power fantasy but good enough to entertain on a weekly basis. What really sold it though was the art. Nowadays, if you're reading online scans, you just as likely to run into a Korean webcomic than a Japanese one. (I'm ignoring stuff like the Breaker because I'm pretty sure that started as a print series - the webtoon stuff is a new wave of comics designed specifically for its vertical format) Recommendations: As someone mentioned earlier - Peerless Dad Administrator Kang Jin Lee (Same author as above - spin off series about one of the characters in the above comic) Legend of the Northern Blade Chronicles of the Heavenly Demon Skeleton Soldier Couldn't Protect the Dungeon (I like it, but admit it's inconsistent. Also, author really likes to emphasize sexual violence against women early on - it's pretty grotty.) Villain Unrivaled Return of the Crazy Demon Probably a lot of other series I like, but these are the ones from the top of my head that are generally pretty good.

stone-monkey 4y ago
Past Life Regressor is another one I just remembered - I wouldn't call it good, but it's more interesting than the typical action fare. Starts out with the most generic premise - fantasy earth where everyone has powers, and one guy lucks into being able to go back in time to do thing right the second time around. What makes this one interesting is that you'd expect this time reset to be about him doing the typical fantasy stuff where he becomes a super powered action hero because he knows everything that will happen beforehand. Instead, He uses his knowledge of the future to navigate the Asian financial crisis and enrich himself through day trading.

radicalbyte 4y ago

> Last year the manga print market shrank by 2.3% to ¥265bn ($1.9bn). There was a massive paper shortage due to COVID combined with a big jump to digital. I've had a hard time finding chapters of One Piece due to this - if you don't pre-order you're too late. Also the latest box set of 20 volumes is at this point still unobtainium :(

deafpolygon 4y ago

Korean entertainment industry does well at exploiting what works. Korean webtoons are short, quick, updated frequently, accessible, easy to read on the phone, everyone has a mobile, and that is what is done. Not to mention that there is a culture of translating everything into English as quickly as possible in Korea. In contrast, mangas are often bought in book form (which are less and less attractive as time goes on), cost more, less accessible, and have a lower update frequency. Japanese entertainment industry are slow and reluctant to translate things into English. The value of manga is a bit less tangible, as they tend to be part of a larger entertainment strategy (along with toys, games, memorabilia).

amelius 4y ago

Soon DALL-e will eclipse them both.