8 ms·

Microsoft did a tremendous amount of hard work to convince me to make the effort to migrate away from Windows at home and at work. They want to lease me a word

Microsoft did a tremendous amount of hard work to convince me to make the effort to migrate away from Windows at home and at work. They want to lease me a word processor. They want to put ads in my digital filing cabinet. They want to take 30% of my software revenue, and when they realized they couldn't have it, they said they'd settle for 12%. No dice. There are zero Windows machines in my home or in my business right now. In fact, there are no Microsoft products. I migrate clients away from Windows when possible, and refuse to work with those who are tightly integrated with MS products. I do occasionally work a job where something has to work on Windows or with MS SQL, but I only accept if that can be done in a platform agnostic way. I previously held onto Windows at home because despite my age I still love games. At least, I love the idea of them, if I ever get time to play. Now, recently I had a startling realization: it's actually easier now to get many of the games I love running on Wine (with or without steam) than it is on Windows. The performance is great. (edit: I love you, Lutris, you make gaming easy.) Even for tools where Windows is essentially mandatory (music production), the situation is such that I now would rather run old software on an old version of Windows as a dedicated DAW machine than to subject myself to new Windows. Anyway, great job Microsoft, you converted a customer into someone who will take time out of their day to bad-mouth you on the internet. All that could have been avoided by just not behaving like an asshole.

fortyseven 4y ago
Windows-free Ubuntu guy here, for over a year now. I even kept my old Windows box hooked up to a KVM "just in case". So far it only gets turned on if I accidentally bump my foot on the power switch.
- dano 4y ago
  I encapsulated my old windows machine into a VM - it gets fired up to run Quicken and another accounting program for which there are no reasonable client based substitutes. The VM boots fast, I have a "safe" copy of the VM image incase of a viral compromise, and it's out of the way of my normal workflow. Windows machine free for about a decade.
  - ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
    Do you have any pointers to how to do this? I have a dual-boot Win7 machine I would like to have run Windows as a VM in Linux, to keep the proprietary executables I need for work running with a smaller security footprint.
    - nicce 4y ago
      If you have Windows installed on separate hard drive (or partition), you can boot it directly with Qemu in Linux. No need to do anything fancy, just use existing installation. If you have two graphic cards, it is even more fancier with GPU passthrough. Something here, might not be the best guide: https://superuser.com/questions/342719/how-to-boot-a-physical-windows-partition-with-qemu https://superuser.com/questions/342719/how-to-boot-a-physica...
phendrenad2 4y ago
> refuse to work with those who are tightly integrated with MS products And nothing of value was lost
- PostOnce 4y ago
  It's not just spiteful, it's practical. If I tie my skills, products, and services to Microsoft, and they discontinue whatever I relied on, then my investment stops being valuable; worse, the skills I built are no longer useful, and my human capital diminishes. If I build skills and products that aren't tightly tied to some other company, then my future is more certain. If I don't invest in Microsoft, they can't pull the rug out from under me, and they can't change the terms on me. They might not be as unreliable as Google, but they're not exactly a charity. I can and should insulate myself and my business against corporate bullying.
bunbun69 4y ago
I doubt Microsoft cares that you migrated away.
- _a_a_a_ 4y ago
  How many of the top 500 supercomputers run windows? They care.
  - evilduck 4y ago
    Or smartphones, or servers on the internet, or IoT devices, or car head units, or the computers that are put into the hands of every school age kid nowadays.
- PostOnce 4y ago
  Not only do they not care, they don't know I exist. That doesn't mean I have to tolerate their behavior. Their empire crumbles anyway, that's why they're doing this to Windows, because they know the future is (sadly) on the web, and the OS is less relevant than the browser now, and more replaceable than it was 20 years ago.
  - nightski 4y ago
    No one said you had to tolerate it lol. They just said it's not really relevant to the discussion. Microsoft's empire is not crumbling.
    - PostOnce 4y ago
      Well, the existence of Google Docs in the office, of Chromebooks in schools, of AWS controlling a large share of what MS lusts after, etc indicate to me that perhaps they aren't destined to remained the dominant force they once were, similar to IBM. Now, I know Microsoft is a near-2-trillion-dollar company, but they would not be the first company to have realized the folly of resting on their laurels. Microsoft's future over the 20 year term doesn't look as rosy as it could. They'll remain a huge company, but perhaps they'll slip back into the hundreds-of-billions-of-dollars segment instead of the trillion-dollar-titan segment if the investments they're making don't pay off. They'll have huge income for decades because it's costly and time-consuming to move away from existing systems, but for new companies, Microsoft is no longer a given.
steve1977 4y ago
What DAW are you using that is Windows-only?
- PostOnce 4y ago
  Ah yes, you can also use Mac for most. I meant, rather, that I don't think any of the Linux audio production stuff is great. Reaper and Waveform are good, Ardour is not yet (in my opinion, it's buggy and requires too much configuration that is not required in other software, but they'll get there). The big-name software is genuinely better than what is available on Linux and is worth using, and the latency introduced by VMs makes that idea useless, and using Wine for that task is non-trivial. I'm just a hobbyist though, my job is not music-related. I have used a midi controller as an industrial process controller though :) Like everything else on Linux though, it'll get better over time. I do screw around with LMMS on linux because it's completely intuitive to me. It works, it's just not as complex and feature-complete as Ableton / etc.
  - cageface 4y ago
    Bitwig is available on Linux now and works great in my experience. I actually prefer it to Ableton anyway.
    - brokenmachine 4y ago
      What about VSTs? They won't all work on Linux.
      - richrichardsson 4y ago
        Quite a list here of Linux compatible VST/VSTi, some paid, some FOSS : http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html
      - justaj 4y ago
        Next to some awesome open source VSTs (SurgeXT, Helm, Vital etc.) there's plenty of closed source VSTs that run native on Linux (u-he plugins come to mind) But you could also use something like yabridge [0] in order to run Windows-only VSTs. 0: https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge
throw903290 4y ago
I am similar, except one thing. I have separate hdd with offline windows 10 installation for gaming. It never gets internet access, never gets updated. Everything totally offline. I dont have a stomache to deal with Wine.
- intelVISA 4y ago
  You could look into LTSC, it's about as close to W7 as you can get in terms of user control (e.g. no forced updates) and still enjoy semi-recent Windows features like D3D12 ""Agile SDK"" (lol)
- simonebrunozzi 4y ago
  Are there games you want to play, that won't allow you to start the game if you don't have an active internet connection?
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    Don't know about him, but if a game requires an internet connection at any point, it's not a game I want to play.
- PostOnce 4y ago
  I just use Lutris now and it all works, there's no more screwing around with Wine for me; if you had problems with Wine in the past, I suggest you try Lutris, you might find it is no longer a hassle. If you use Steam, it's all automatic and transparent in the background, but I don't use Steam for everything.
- chii 4y ago
  how do you get those games onto the machine if it's offline these days? Unless you exclusively buy off GOG, and download the offline version...
hepitsu 4y ago
Same here vis a vis Linux for my personal use, but the worse thing from Microsoft's perspective is how it pushed me towards buying Apple and recommending Apple products to everyone I know. As a techie, I used to hate Apple. I can't stand the closed ecosystem, I can't stand the product markups, and whenever friends or family would ask, I'd tell them they could get more powerful systems for a fraction of the cost if they just stuck to Windows. Nowadays I do the exact opposite. I tell them that while they'll be paying a markup, it's worth it because Apple has at least trended in the direction of privacy and has also continued delivering on usability. I'm not bombarded by ads and news when I open my Mac. So while I will never get my family and friends to use Linux, I have absolutely caused them to spend tens of thousands of dollars on Apple products instead of Windows. That's where I think these anti-consumer behaviors could really hurt Windows in the long run, if enough techies start driving their social circle to Apple.
- acdha 4y ago
  That’s been my experience since the early 2000s: people recommend Macs (or especially iPads) for the people who will be calling them for support, and it’s generally delivered well. One thing I will note is that the markups have been a lot less in practice than claimed since Apple stopped using PowerPC. Most of the people I know who did comparisons ended up finding the Mac either equivalent or, frequently, cheaper once they adjusted for equivalent quality. Sure, you can buy a $400 PC but you end up buying 3 of them over the same service life and have a shoddy display for that entire time. The bundled crapware PC vendors use to subsidize the low-end stuff is really not helping the impression of their products, either (I know multiple people who had an unusable system out of the box that way. They now use Macs.).
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    The markup is in the RAM/storage upgrades. Your stuck with Apple's prices at time of purchase for the most part and if you need it fast then you have to go some way more expensive SKU to get it. Only the Mac Pro (which is already insanely expensive) and the Intel Mac Mini (where you can only upgrade the RAM) are user expandable. And who knows if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will be. The mistake is buying a $400 laptop. Although anecdotically I've known a lot more people whose MacBook has died than PC laptops.
meta2023 4y ago
Those features are annoying, I agree, but they're also a checkbox away from being disabled. Less time than it took you to write this rant.
XorNot 4y ago
I'm really getting to the point that I think we need regulation that bans mandatory advertising features in any product which you outlay cash for directly, or at least requires a realistically priced non-advertising version to be made available (i.e. give some leeway to go "nah, it's not 10,000% more expensive to sell the version with ads...) It seems like the inevitable destination of all products is to be chock full of tracking and ads, because if you have a large market share, why not also monetize it further by selling ads to your disposable-income identified customers?
serverholic 4y ago
For music production you should check out Bitwig. It's awesome and competitive with other mainstream DAWs.
disqard 4y ago
Don't worry, a bunch of Microsoft VPs got promoted for showing that this would boost revenue (and, unless MS experiences a serious exodus due to this latest round of shenanigans, such increa$es will materialize). So, yes, there certainly are MS folks who (unironically) think that they did a "great job" with this.
- asveikau 4y ago
  I think the exodus thing doesn't work the way you think. Sane people leave, and the staff is left with people who want to be there and to be pulling all these stunts, spinning them as success.
  - bscphil 4y ago
    Think they probably meant a user exodus, as that's where the revenue comes from.
    - disqard 4y ago
      You are correct, thank you! I probably could've been clearer about that :)
wilsonnb3 4y ago
> Now, recently I had a startling realization: it's actually easier now to get many of the games I love running on Wine (with or without steam) than it is on Windows. The performance is great. I find this hard to believe unless you are talking about older or indie games.
- l0b0 4y ago
  Almost all Steam games (old and new) run on Linux with no further modifications. I'm running Elden Ring, Dark Souls I Remastered, DS2 SotFS, DS3, GTA V, Sekiro, Valheim, XCOM 2, Hellblade, Noita, BioShock Remastered and Infinite, Celeste, and dozens of others. This is a relatively recent development, and the only "technical" thing I've had to do is tell Steam to run games not verified for Linux with Proton. You don't even need to run Ubuntu; I've been using Arch and NixOS.
  - wilsonnb3 4y ago
    Proton is a great piece of tech and gaming on Linux is the best it has ever been but we are far from a world where Windows and Linux are equals at gaming. When you want a play a specific game it is still the case that it might work on Linux. If the game is on Steam and doesn't have multiplayer you can update the might work to probably will work. However, the comment I was responding to was claiming that running games on Linux was easier than Windows, which is only the case for old games. Their claim that performance is great is also a bit suspect since most games will perform worse on Linux than Windows but performance is usually "good enough" on Linux so I can see where they are coming from. Anyways, I agree with the people in this thread saying that gaming on Linux is great and a viable option but (as per usual) people are hyping up Proton and Lutris and Linux to be better than they are. Windows is still by far the best choice if you want to play games on a PC.
    - l0b0 4y ago
      I don't know what your sources are, but for me Linux recently took over prime position for gaming. I've been dual-booting since forever, but it's many months between every time I boot up Windows, and every time I'm now reminded that the lead it had is gone except for one thing: - The performance difference is small enough that I don't notice. - Audio setup is now easier in Linux (using PulseAudio and, since ~6 months, PipeWire). I had the worst time getting Windows to output to the right place. - I can't remember the last game which didn't work in Steam on Linux, even if it's not officially supported. They do have a huge incentive to improve Linux support now that their handheld console is running it. - Windows supports more than 8 bits per colour channel. The setup is annoying and fiddly, and it doesn't always work, but damn does Elden Ring look good in HDR. I've been using the official AMD/NVIDIA drivers (on both platforms) most of this time. The NVIDIA driver kept crashing things so often I switched, and the AMD driver has been rock solid.
imsaw 4y ago
They're squeezing revenue from their large portion of users who are not technologically proficient to realize they're being exploited.
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  Sounds a bit like Apple.
clairity 4y ago
i haven't used windows since 2008. the writing was already on the wall back then about which direction microsoft was heading. you see the same thing happening with apple now. they have enough market dominance that they're no longer constrained to advance tech for the consumer, but rather just for themselves (i.e., their head-long dive into content and advertising). this is exactly what antitrust regulators should be heading off at the pass, but they fail time and again (and again and again).
NovaVeles 4y ago
I could not tell you the last time I had Windows in the home. I would guess around 2013. After then I kind of went (almost) 'Full Stallman' - I had been moving that way for a few years already. The only Microsoft product I have is an old Xbox 360 that was updated once and then left permanently offline. Side story - I remember in late 2001 when the 1st Xbox was coming out and I was in a retail store. There was couple looking to see what consoles where around and what to choose. The husband saw the Xbox and the Microsoft name on it. "I'm not supporting that thing! They have made my life a living hell, Mark my worlds they will do anything to dominate the market and I do NOT support that!" Seeing how they are trying to still buy their way to success, his words ring true today.
- baremetal 4y ago
  Last time I had a windows machine in my house was 2005. Even my elderly parents run Linux, supported by me of course. They don't know even know the difference.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Took me a few tries over the years but maybe 5 years ago I tried dual booting Linux yet again and that time it stuck. I found myself leaving it on the Linux side for longer and longer stretches of time. Finally last year someone gave me a hand-me-down laptop and I just didn't bother installing windows. Everything I do takes place in the shell, an IDE (of which there are tons), or by far the most common, in the browser. I used Firefox because that's what my distro comes with but I also have Chrome installed for just in case. That turned out not to be an issue with the sites I typically frequent. Today I had a random person look over my shoulder and ask "what kind of computer is that? Must be really old..." Grrrrr.
    - baremetal 4y ago
      >Today I had a random person look over my shoulder and ask "what kind of computer is that? Must be really old..." Consider that a badge of honor.
- 4y ago
MisterTea 4y ago
> I previously held onto Windows at home because despite my age I still love games. At least, I love the idea of them, if I ever get time to play. I used to think this way too. I have been holding on to a Windows 7 machine at home since 2011 but its days are numbered. Linux has gotten to the point where it just works and clumsy software can be installed and ran in containers. I have a 12 core threadripper with an AMD Radeon Pro running Void Linux Musl and Steam installed via flatpak and most of my games work. I have Debian running an a NUC hooked to my TV and that plays Hulu in a browser or run whatever I want. I don't miss Windows. If I NEED it there are VM's.
nickstinemates 4y ago
I wish performance on Linux was as good as Windows for high end gaming. Sadly it is not. So, Windows for gaming and Linux for everything else it is.
EchoReflection 4y ago
I literally just yesterday super painstakingly "downgraded" to Win10 because W11 was/is so terrible. I had to take my Win laptop into Bestbuy because of this ridiculous situation in which Windoze was telling me I needed to buy a "legitimate" copy of the stupid operating system and I wasn't able to fix it myself without doing all sorts of stuff involving editing registries and God knows what else. The Best Buy guy was like "yeah, I wouldn't have recommended putting Win 11 on it. I can wipe it and put 10 on if you want", which I gladly accepted. Normally I use Ubuntu, I just bought a Win laptop because it seems easier to print from a Windows computer than a Linux PC, sadly.
aabbcc1241 4y ago
I've left Windows for years but still using Microsoft's thing, e.g. vscode and github. They're platform independent thought.

fortyseven 4y ago

Windows-free Ubuntu guy here, for over a year now. I even kept my old Windows box hooked up to a KVM "just in case". So far it only gets turned on if I accidentally bump my foot on the power switch.

dano 4y ago
I encapsulated my old windows machine into a VM - it gets fired up to run Quicken and another accounting program for which there are no reasonable client based substitutes. The VM boots fast, I have a "safe" copy of the VM image incase of a viral compromise, and it's out of the way of my normal workflow. Windows machine free for about a decade.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y ago
  Do you have any pointers to how to do this? I have a dual-boot Win7 machine I would like to have run Windows as a VM in Linux, to keep the proprietary executables I need for work running with a smaller security footprint.
  - nicce 4y ago
    If you have Windows installed on separate hard drive (or partition), you can boot it directly with Qemu in Linux. No need to do anything fancy, just use existing installation. If you have two graphic cards, it is even more fancier with GPU passthrough. Something here, might not be the best guide: https://superuser.com/questions/342719/how-to-boot-a-physical-windows-partition-with-qemu https://superuser.com/questions/342719/how-to-boot-a-physica...

phendrenad2 4y ago

> refuse to work with those who are tightly integrated with MS products And nothing of value was lost

PostOnce 4y ago
It's not just spiteful, it's practical. If I tie my skills, products, and services to Microsoft, and they discontinue whatever I relied on, then my investment stops being valuable; worse, the skills I built are no longer useful, and my human capital diminishes. If I build skills and products that aren't tightly tied to some other company, then my future is more certain. If I don't invest in Microsoft, they can't pull the rug out from under me, and they can't change the terms on me. They might not be as unreliable as Google, but they're not exactly a charity. I can and should insulate myself and my business against corporate bullying.

bunbun69 4y ago

I doubt Microsoft cares that you migrated away.

_a_a_a_ 4y ago
How many of the top 500 supercomputers run windows? They care.
- evilduck 4y ago
  Or smartphones, or servers on the internet, or IoT devices, or car head units, or the computers that are put into the hands of every school age kid nowadays.
PostOnce 4y ago
Not only do they not care, they don't know I exist. That doesn't mean I have to tolerate their behavior. Their empire crumbles anyway, that's why they're doing this to Windows, because they know the future is (sadly) on the web, and the OS is less relevant than the browser now, and more replaceable than it was 20 years ago.
- nightski 4y ago
  No one said you had to tolerate it lol. They just said it's not really relevant to the discussion. Microsoft's empire is not crumbling.
  - PostOnce 4y ago
    Well, the existence of Google Docs in the office, of Chromebooks in schools, of AWS controlling a large share of what MS lusts after, etc indicate to me that perhaps they aren't destined to remained the dominant force they once were, similar to IBM. Now, I know Microsoft is a near-2-trillion-dollar company, but they would not be the first company to have realized the folly of resting on their laurels. Microsoft's future over the 20 year term doesn't look as rosy as it could. They'll remain a huge company, but perhaps they'll slip back into the hundreds-of-billions-of-dollars segment instead of the trillion-dollar-titan segment if the investments they're making don't pay off. They'll have huge income for decades because it's costly and time-consuming to move away from existing systems, but for new companies, Microsoft is no longer a given.

steve1977 4y ago

What DAW are you using that is Windows-only?

PostOnce 4y ago
Ah yes, you can also use Mac for most. I meant, rather, that I don't think any of the Linux audio production stuff is great. Reaper and Waveform are good, Ardour is not yet (in my opinion, it's buggy and requires too much configuration that is not required in other software, but they'll get there). The big-name software is genuinely better than what is available on Linux and is worth using, and the latency introduced by VMs makes that idea useless, and using Wine for that task is non-trivial. I'm just a hobbyist though, my job is not music-related. I have used a midi controller as an industrial process controller though :) Like everything else on Linux though, it'll get better over time. I do screw around with LMMS on linux because it's completely intuitive to me. It works, it's just not as complex and feature-complete as Ableton / etc.
- cageface 4y ago
  Bitwig is available on Linux now and works great in my experience. I actually prefer it to Ableton anyway.
  - brokenmachine 4y ago
    What about VSTs? They won't all work on Linux.
    - richrichardsson 4y ago
      Quite a list here of Linux compatible VST/VSTi, some paid, some FOSS : http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html http://linux-sound.org/linux-vst-plugins.html
    - justaj 4y ago
      Next to some awesome open source VSTs (SurgeXT, Helm, Vital etc.) there's plenty of closed source VSTs that run native on Linux (u-he plugins come to mind) But you could also use something like yabridge [0] in order to run Windows-only VSTs. 0: https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge

throw903290 4y ago

I am similar, except one thing. I have separate hdd with offline windows 10 installation for gaming. It never gets internet access, never gets updated. Everything totally offline. I dont have a stomache to deal with Wine.

intelVISA 4y ago
You could look into LTSC, it's about as close to W7 as you can get in terms of user control (e.g. no forced updates) and still enjoy semi-recent Windows features like D3D12 ""Agile SDK"" (lol)
simonebrunozzi 4y ago
Are there games you want to play, that won't allow you to start the game if you don't have an active internet connection?
- JohnFen 4y ago
  Don't know about him, but if a game requires an internet connection at any point, it's not a game I want to play.
PostOnce 4y ago
I just use Lutris now and it all works, there's no more screwing around with Wine for me; if you had problems with Wine in the past, I suggest you try Lutris, you might find it is no longer a hassle. If you use Steam, it's all automatic and transparent in the background, but I don't use Steam for everything.
chii 4y ago
how do you get those games onto the machine if it's offline these days? Unless you exclusively buy off GOG, and download the offline version...

hepitsu 4y ago

Same here vis a vis Linux for my personal use, but the worse thing from Microsoft's perspective is how it pushed me towards buying Apple and recommending Apple products to everyone I know. As a techie, I used to hate Apple. I can't stand the closed ecosystem, I can't stand the product markups, and whenever friends or family would ask, I'd tell them they could get more powerful systems for a fraction of the cost if they just stuck to Windows. Nowadays I do the exact opposite. I tell them that while they'll be paying a markup, it's worth it because Apple has at least trended in the direction of privacy and has also continued delivering on usability. I'm not bombarded by ads and news when I open my Mac. So while I will never get my family and friends to use Linux, I have absolutely caused them to spend tens of thousands of dollars on Apple products instead of Windows. That's where I think these anti-consumer behaviors could really hurt Windows in the long run, if enough techies start driving their social circle to Apple.

acdha 4y ago
That’s been my experience since the early 2000s: people recommend Macs (or especially iPads) for the people who will be calling them for support, and it’s generally delivered well. One thing I will note is that the markups have been a lot less in practice than claimed since Apple stopped using PowerPC. Most of the people I know who did comparisons ended up finding the Mac either equivalent or, frequently, cheaper once they adjusted for equivalent quality. Sure, you can buy a $400 PC but you end up buying 3 of them over the same service life and have a shoddy display for that entire time. The bundled crapware PC vendors use to subsidize the low-end stuff is really not helping the impression of their products, either (I know multiple people who had an unusable system out of the box that way. They now use Macs.).
- goosedragons 4y ago
  The markup is in the RAM/storage upgrades. Your stuck with Apple's prices at time of purchase for the most part and if you need it fast then you have to go some way more expensive SKU to get it. Only the Mac Pro (which is already insanely expensive) and the Intel Mac Mini (where you can only upgrade the RAM) are user expandable. And who knows if the Apple Silicon Mac Pro will be. The mistake is buying a $400 laptop. Although anecdotically I've known a lot more people whose MacBook has died than PC laptops.

meta2023 4y ago

Those features are annoying, I agree, but they're also a checkbox away from being disabled. Less time than it took you to write this rant.

XorNot 4y ago

I'm really getting to the point that I think we need regulation that bans mandatory advertising features in any product which you outlay cash for directly, or at least requires a realistically priced non-advertising version to be made available (i.e. give some leeway to go "nah, it's not 10,000% more expensive to sell the version with ads...) It seems like the inevitable destination of all products is to be chock full of tracking and ads, because if you have a large market share, why not also monetize it further by selling ads to your disposable-income identified customers?

serverholic 4y ago

For music production you should check out Bitwig. It's awesome and competitive with other mainstream DAWs.

disqard 4y ago

Don't worry, a bunch of Microsoft VPs got promoted for showing that this would boost revenue (and, unless MS experiences a serious exodus due to this latest round of shenanigans, such increa$es will materialize). So, yes, there certainly are MS folks who (unironically) think that they did a "great job" with this.

asveikau 4y ago
I think the exodus thing doesn't work the way you think. Sane people leave, and the staff is left with people who want to be there and to be pulling all these stunts, spinning them as success.
- bscphil 4y ago
  Think they probably meant a user exodus, as that's where the revenue comes from.
  - disqard 4y ago
    You are correct, thank you! I probably could've been clearer about that :)

wilsonnb3 4y ago

> Now, recently I had a startling realization: it's actually easier now to get many of the games I love running on Wine (with or without steam) than it is on Windows. The performance is great. I find this hard to believe unless you are talking about older or indie games.

l0b0 4y ago
Almost all Steam games (old and new) run on Linux with no further modifications. I'm running Elden Ring, Dark Souls I Remastered, DS2 SotFS, DS3, GTA V, Sekiro, Valheim, XCOM 2, Hellblade, Noita, BioShock Remastered and Infinite, Celeste, and dozens of others. This is a relatively recent development, and the only "technical" thing I've had to do is tell Steam to run games not verified for Linux with Proton. You don't even need to run Ubuntu; I've been using Arch and NixOS.
- wilsonnb3 4y ago
  Proton is a great piece of tech and gaming on Linux is the best it has ever been but we are far from a world where Windows and Linux are equals at gaming. When you want a play a specific game it is still the case that it might work on Linux. If the game is on Steam and doesn't have multiplayer you can update the might work to probably will work. However, the comment I was responding to was claiming that running games on Linux was easier than Windows, which is only the case for old games. Their claim that performance is great is also a bit suspect since most games will perform worse on Linux than Windows but performance is usually "good enough" on Linux so I can see where they are coming from. Anyways, I agree with the people in this thread saying that gaming on Linux is great and a viable option but (as per usual) people are hyping up Proton and Lutris and Linux to be better than they are. Windows is still by far the best choice if you want to play games on a PC.
  - l0b0 4y ago
    I don't know what your sources are, but for me Linux recently took over prime position for gaming. I've been dual-booting since forever, but it's many months between every time I boot up Windows, and every time I'm now reminded that the lead it had is gone except for one thing: - The performance difference is small enough that I don't notice. - Audio setup is now easier in Linux (using PulseAudio and, since ~6 months, PipeWire). I had the worst time getting Windows to output to the right place. - I can't remember the last game which didn't work in Steam on Linux, even if it's not officially supported. They do have a huge incentive to improve Linux support now that their handheld console is running it. - Windows supports more than 8 bits per colour channel. The setup is annoying and fiddly, and it doesn't always work, but damn does Elden Ring look good in HDR. I've been using the official AMD/NVIDIA drivers (on both platforms) most of this time. The NVIDIA driver kept crashing things so often I switched, and the AMD driver has been rock solid.

imsaw 4y ago

They're squeezing revenue from their large portion of users who are not technologically proficient to realize they're being exploited.

brokenmachine 4y ago
Sounds a bit like Apple.

clairity 4y ago

i haven't used windows since 2008. the writing was already on the wall back then about which direction microsoft was heading. you see the same thing happening with apple now. they have enough market dominance that they're no longer constrained to advance tech for the consumer, but rather just for themselves (i.e., their head-long dive into content and advertising). this is exactly what antitrust regulators should be heading off at the pass, but they fail time and again (and again and again).

NovaVeles 4y ago

I could not tell you the last time I had Windows in the home. I would guess around 2013. After then I kind of went (almost) 'Full Stallman' - I had been moving that way for a few years already. The only Microsoft product I have is an old Xbox 360 that was updated once and then left permanently offline. Side story - I remember in late 2001 when the 1st Xbox was coming out and I was in a retail store. There was couple looking to see what consoles where around and what to choose. The husband saw the Xbox and the Microsoft name on it. "I'm not supporting that thing! They have made my life a living hell, Mark my worlds they will do anything to dominate the market and I do NOT support that!" Seeing how they are trying to still buy their way to success, his words ring true today.

baremetal 4y ago
Last time I had a windows machine in my house was 2005. Even my elderly parents run Linux, supported by me of course. They don't know even know the difference.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Took me a few tries over the years but maybe 5 years ago I tried dual booting Linux yet again and that time it stuck. I found myself leaving it on the Linux side for longer and longer stretches of time. Finally last year someone gave me a hand-me-down laptop and I just didn't bother installing windows. Everything I do takes place in the shell, an IDE (of which there are tons), or by far the most common, in the browser. I used Firefox because that's what my distro comes with but I also have Chrome installed for just in case. That turned out not to be an issue with the sites I typically frequent. Today I had a random person look over my shoulder and ask "what kind of computer is that? Must be really old..." Grrrrr.
  - baremetal 4y ago
    >Today I had a random person look over my shoulder and ask "what kind of computer is that? Must be really old..." Consider that a badge of honor.
4y ago

MisterTea 4y ago

> I previously held onto Windows at home because despite my age I still love games. At least, I love the idea of them, if I ever get time to play. I used to think this way too. I have been holding on to a Windows 7 machine at home since 2011 but its days are numbered. Linux has gotten to the point where it just works and clumsy software can be installed and ran in containers. I have a 12 core threadripper with an AMD Radeon Pro running Void Linux Musl and Steam installed via flatpak and most of my games work. I have Debian running an a NUC hooked to my TV and that plays Hulu in a browser or run whatever I want. I don't miss Windows. If I NEED it there are VM's.

nickstinemates 4y ago

I wish performance on Linux was as good as Windows for high end gaming. Sadly it is not. So, Windows for gaming and Linux for everything else it is.

EchoReflection 4y ago

I literally just yesterday super painstakingly "downgraded" to Win10 because W11 was/is so terrible. I had to take my Win laptop into Bestbuy because of this ridiculous situation in which Windoze was telling me I needed to buy a "legitimate" copy of the stupid operating system and I wasn't able to fix it myself without doing all sorts of stuff involving editing registries and God knows what else. The Best Buy guy was like "yeah, I wouldn't have recommended putting Win 11 on it. I can wipe it and put 10 on if you want", which I gladly accepted. Normally I use Ubuntu, I just bought a Win laptop because it seems easier to print from a Windows computer than a Linux PC, sadly.

aabbcc1241 4y ago

I've left Windows for years but still using Microsoft's thing, e.g. vscode and github. They're platform independent thought.