4 ms·

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncomm

Rolex hatred seems like it is about expressing contempt towards the previous establishment. Presidents used to wear them (still do actually) but it's not uncommon to see very rich politicians wearing very cheap watches probably deliberately. Same goes for suit wearing. I think pg wrote an article on his blog about how suit wearing was for people who thought like conformists and obviously being a conformist was not for hackers. I am paraphrasing because I can't remember now exactly what he said. But I just think it was contempt of previously established people working in finance or law. Now, the largest companies in the US skew towards tech companies. I don't know why that happens that newly successful people seem to dislike the symbols of the previous elite rather than just mind their own business. Wearing a suit to a tech company will probably get you ostracized even if you just like wearing suits. This is in spite of the claim that the hoodie culture is not concerned what you dress up in, in fact they are. Maybe you could call that counter counter-signalling. It's just like taking a large salary at a tech company instead of having a $1 salary and getting enormous options and stock payouts. Somehow taking a large salary is worse despite that being normal for CEOs previously.

pfisherman 4y ago
> Wearing a suit to a tech company will probably get you ostracized even if you just like wearing suits. Not true. If you are a menswear enthusiast who is genuinely into fine tailoring, then people will respect it and even show interest. Generally, having hobbies and interests adds to one’s character. Now wearing a suit because you think it will make people take you more seriously will get you some side eye.
- LAC-Tech 4y ago
  Which is a shame. Someone wearing business casual is so much more pleasant to the eye than typical sloppy hacker wear. Especially once you start getting older and flabbier.
  - coffeebeqn 4y ago
    Doesn’t business causal mean like slacks and a lame tucked in pastel polo shirt? I think both a suit and hacker wear are more interesting
    - officialchicken 4y ago
      Don't forget about the Patagonia fleece vest! Many VC firms require someone to wear one to every meeting.
    - LAC-Tech 4y ago
      I think it's more like slacks and a button up. Polo shirts are super casual.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      Depends on the context. When I was a SV biglaw associate, I wore slacks and button down, generally without coat (only for meetings). On 'casual Friday' I wore polo, typically with jeans. Basically, SV law firms are always 'business casual' unless you're going to court or a deposition. And on casual Fridays, it's even less formal. I assume tech companies are more casual than big law firms, and that things may have gotten more casual in the decade since I left the law.
    - SyzygistSix 4y ago
      At this point, don't Polo shirts essentially say "Welcome to Chipotle/Best Buy"?
  - nostrademons 4y ago
    These are also culturally dependent, and are in-group/out-group signals. Many people in Silicon Valley explicitly want to keep people who believe that business casual is more pleasing to the eye out of their social circles. It's a value judgment; to them, hoodies are more pleasing to the eye, and more comfortable, and they don't want people who believe otherwise in their companies.
    - 4y ago
- onetimeusename 4y ago
  maybe. I'd like to think that is true but was not in my experience but I wish I had experimented more before everything went remote so maybe take what I am saying with a grain of salt on this matter. I definitely took shit for it although some people were fascinated. I think the exception is if you have long hair or are a steampunk enthusiast. I am not really kidding. Even then you might come off as odd. I sometimes would have to go to nearby tech companies we worked with and the leads who would greet me would mention something like "oh sorry we didn't tell you that you don't have to wear a suit". You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate.
  - astrange 4y ago
    If you need someone to disrespect you for being a steampunk enthusiast, I’m available. Nobody looks good in brown, and it seems to be the kind of people who think wearing a sleeveless vest is “fancy” - they actually look like wedding bartenders.
  - Sebb767 4y ago
    > You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate. If you're the only one wearing a suit, you look overdressed. It's as simple as that.
kevinventullo 4y ago
I’ve never understood where this meme came from of hoodie culture having some kind of disdain for suits. I enjoy a nice suit when the time calls for it! Say, a wedding or a holiday party. The reason I prefer a hoodie to suit on a daily basis is that putting on a suit is kind of arduous and owning 20 well-fitting suits gets expensive. It has nothing to do with signaling or whatever. Hoodies are far more practical and comfortable! They’re a continuation of what I wore in high school and college, though sadly the skateboard logos have been replaced by tech company logos. Anyway, if you want to wear a suit, that’s fine, just don’t expect it from me.
- astrange 4y ago
  It’s real, but I think the anti-suit culture has less of a point when tech has been ascendant so long. https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-were-apple-we-dont-wear-suits-we-dont-even-own-suits-2010-7?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-were-apple-we-don... Also, I think it was originally because the west coast is warm all year.
lazide 4y ago
Interestingly, the $1 salary (with large equity) gives you massive flexibility in how and when you get taxed, and also a lot of additional negotiating power and flexibility with ex-wives (and the Court) on child support and alimony, at least in California.
- chrisbolt 4y ago
  Courts are oblivious to equity and other non-salary compensation?
  - lazide 4y ago
    The calculations are based on income, which equity (until sold) is not. In most cases even then (capital gain). Stock also varies a lot in price/value (sometimes being nearly impossible to value, say for private companies) and many arguments can be made (up or down) as to its value or potential. A good lawyer can start to get traction there of course, and it won’t get ignored, but it is not easy compared to, say, a $5mln/yr salary, or 5 years of bonuses of $10mln, which you can just plug into the calculator and go. [https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/ https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/]

pfisherman 4y ago

> Wearing a suit to a tech company will probably get you ostracized even if you just like wearing suits. Not true. If you are a menswear enthusiast who is genuinely into fine tailoring, then people will respect it and even show interest. Generally, having hobbies and interests adds to one’s character. Now wearing a suit because you think it will make people take you more seriously will get you some side eye.

LAC-Tech 4y ago
Which is a shame. Someone wearing business casual is so much more pleasant to the eye than typical sloppy hacker wear. Especially once you start getting older and flabbier.
- coffeebeqn 4y ago
  Doesn’t business causal mean like slacks and a lame tucked in pastel polo shirt? I think both a suit and hacker wear are more interesting
  - officialchicken 4y ago
    Don't forget about the Patagonia fleece vest! Many VC firms require someone to wear one to every meeting.
  - LAC-Tech 4y ago
    I think it's more like slacks and a button up. Polo shirts are super casual.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    Depends on the context. When I was a SV biglaw associate, I wore slacks and button down, generally without coat (only for meetings). On 'casual Friday' I wore polo, typically with jeans. Basically, SV law firms are always 'business casual' unless you're going to court or a deposition. And on casual Fridays, it's even less formal. I assume tech companies are more casual than big law firms, and that things may have gotten more casual in the decade since I left the law.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    At this point, don't Polo shirts essentially say "Welcome to Chipotle/Best Buy"?
- nostrademons 4y ago
  These are also culturally dependent, and are in-group/out-group signals. Many people in Silicon Valley explicitly want to keep people who believe that business casual is more pleasing to the eye out of their social circles. It's a value judgment; to them, hoodies are more pleasing to the eye, and more comfortable, and they don't want people who believe otherwise in their companies.
  - 4y ago
onetimeusename 4y ago
maybe. I'd like to think that is true but was not in my experience but I wish I had experimented more before everything went remote so maybe take what I am saying with a grain of salt on this matter. I definitely took shit for it although some people were fascinated. I think the exception is if you have long hair or are a steampunk enthusiast. I am not really kidding. Even then you might come off as odd. I sometimes would have to go to nearby tech companies we worked with and the leads who would greet me would mention something like "oh sorry we didn't tell you that you don't have to wear a suit". You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate.
- astrange 4y ago
  If you need someone to disrespect you for being a steampunk enthusiast, I’m available. Nobody looks good in brown, and it seems to be the kind of people who think wearing a sleeveless vest is “fancy” - they actually look like wedding bartenders.
- Sebb767 4y ago
  > You have to explain yourself and there is the implication that wearing a suit is somehow inappropriate. If you're the only one wearing a suit, you look overdressed. It's as simple as that.

kevinventullo 4y ago

I’ve never understood where this meme came from of hoodie culture having some kind of disdain for suits. I enjoy a nice suit when the time calls for it! Say, a wedding or a holiday party. The reason I prefer a hoodie to suit on a daily basis is that putting on a suit is kind of arduous and owning 20 well-fitting suits gets expensive. It has nothing to do with signaling or whatever. Hoodies are far more practical and comfortable! They’re a continuation of what I wore in high school and college, though sadly the skateboard logos have been replaced by tech company logos. Anyway, if you want to wear a suit, that’s fine, just don’t expect it from me.

astrange 4y ago
It’s real, but I think the anti-suit culture has less of a point when tech has been ascendant so long. https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-were-apple-we-dont-wear-suits-we-dont-even-own-suits-2010-7?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-were-apple-we-don... Also, I think it was originally because the west coast is warm all year.

lazide 4y ago

Interestingly, the $1 salary (with large equity) gives you massive flexibility in how and when you get taxed, and also a lot of additional negotiating power and flexibility with ex-wives (and the Court) on child support and alimony, at least in California.

chrisbolt 4y ago
Courts are oblivious to equity and other non-salary compensation?
- lazide 4y ago
  The calculations are based on income, which equity (until sold) is not. In most cases even then (capital gain). Stock also varies a lot in price/value (sometimes being nearly impossible to value, say for private companies) and many arguments can be made (up or down) as to its value or potential. A good lawyer can start to get traction there of course, and it won’t get ignored, but it is not easy compared to, say, a $5mln/yr salary, or 5 years of bonuses of $10mln, which you can just plug into the calculator and go. [https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/ https://childsupport.ca.gov/guideline-calculator/]