8 ms·

Yes 2023 is sure to be the year of the Linux desktop. (/s) The reality is the computer form factor involving a keyboard is slowly becoming more and more of a n

by dzdt 4y ago

Yes 2023 is sure to be the year of the Linux desktop. (/s) The reality is the computer form factor involving a keyboard is slowly becoming more and more of a niche. Windows has a lock on this niche for business and gaming. For other home use there is strong competition from apple and for education there is strong competition from chromebook. Linux is still not really in the running, sorry.

als0 4y ago
The year of the Linux Desktop already happened, just not in the way people wanted - Android and Chromebooks.
- nibbleshifter 4y ago
  Tbh, everyone I know who has used an Android "laptop" or "Chromebook" has abandoned it after ~6 months for a "real computer". Turns out Native > Webshit for many things.
  - Mistletoe 4y ago
    I'm never buying another Chromebook and Chromebox because Google sunsetted my perfectly fine working laptop and Chromebox and now it can't do things like play streaming movies from HBO Max because the chrome version is too low. Spotify doesn't work either. Leaves few things left to do with it haha.
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      Install Linux on it and you'll be able to use the latest version of Chromium and stream to your heart's content.
      - Mistletoe 4y ago
        I think I'll just sell it and get a used Macbook Air, they go for like $99 on Ebay now. Every time in my life I have installed Linux with such high hopes and get annoyed by all the crap that doesn't work.
        the_third_wave 4y ago
        Can you give some examples of "things which do not work"? Seeing how as I've been using Linux for close to 30 years and have it running on loads of different types of hardware with more or less everything working - yes even Bluetooth - I'm always somewhat surprised by these problems which fail to haunt me.
        20after4 4y ago
        I think some people just don’t even bother to resolve an issue. Maybe it’s not even broken but just reflexively assumed to be broken if something isn’t immediately as they expect it to work. My parents both use Linux daily and rarely ever need me to provide any support. Ubuntu or Debian has worked out of the box on every machine I’ve touched over the last 10 years. Avoiding nvidia graphics is probably the secret to success though, and may be the issue responsible for many people who have a much more negative view of Linux “just working”
        Mistletoe 4y ago
        Wi-Fi is usually wonky and just various other things like video drivers etc. Here is the laptop you wanted me to try to install Linux on lol. Who has time for this shit? I just want to use the computer not futz around with it constantly. https://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/eku5tv/replacing_chromeos_with_ubuntu_on_an_arm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/eku5tv/replacing_... Like I said, spend $99 on MacBook Air, receive it, turn it on, it works. That’s all I care about. I don’t even like apple products really but I just want something I know will work.
        kaladin-jasnah 4y ago
        That is an ARM laptop, which means you have an especially low chance of installing Linux easily. Get an x86 Chromebook and you would probably have less issue, but yes, you may still have some hardware issues (especially since Chromebooks have spotty desktop Linux support). Get an off-the-shelf x86 laptop and you probably would be fine; maybe you will have a few issues. But instead of faulting Linux, consider this? Could you install Windows on this same laptop? Probably not. In fact, on many laptops, hardware support is limited on Windows without vendor drivers (although, there is a chance that this has gotten less bad these days). If you went and bought a used laptop that has official Linux support, like an XPS 13, then you could also open it, turn it on, and have it work with zero issues with Linux—the same way as a MacBook Air. Try Hackintoshing a random laptop from Best Buy and I think you will encounter similar issues with macOS.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  That is the Year of Linux kernel, there is nothing else from GNU/Linux on Android and ChromeOS.
  - tormeh 4y ago
    It's a pretty good argument in favor of the GNU/Linux vs. plain Linux distinction. Which is not a thing I really thought I'd say.
the_third_wave 4y ago
For you, maybe not. For me it has been in the running - and mostly in the lead - for close to 30 years. There's Linux on this iMac, on the Thinkpad sitting next to it, on the server these connect to, on the phones lying on the desk, on the tablet. For all I know there is Linux in the washing machine as well, I never bothered to look. It seems like Gates' vision of "information at your fingertips" has come true, the only thing "missing" is Windows. I do have a few virtual machines on the server for the few packages (VAG ELSA, looking at you...) which don't run well on Linux/Wine but these only get started every other blue moon. By the way, the Chromebook you mentioned runs Linux. Google might eventually port this to Fuchsia but this remains to be seen.
veridies 4y ago
I think OP's point is that there's one more major use case — gaming — for which Windows has a newly viable competitor. It's not that Linux is going to replace Windows, but that Windows could suffer a death by a thousand cuts. I'll note that more and more offices that I encounter seem to be switching to Chromebooks.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  People keep saying this and then run into minor problems becoming bigger problems because frequently used programs end up being unusable or 3rd class citizen, behind both mobile and Mac users. Unless Linux is braindead easy to use without frustrations, it won't happen. Gamers pay more for lesser ease of access increases.
  - croes 4y ago
    Yes, people are strange. Every problem on Linux is deal breaker, all the problems on Windows aren't.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      I mean, this is pretty easily explainable. People have grown up around Windows. The problems for the most part don’t change over time, so people have gotten used to them and have developed their own tried and true ways of doing something that sidesteps the problems they had. Switching to Linux brings with it a whole new swath of problems and fixes Windows problems so not only are users seeing new issues, their workarounds now have to be worked around because whatever was wrong in Windows works in Linux. Add to that the fact that most Linux users are power users and instructions therefore lean towards that, and you’ve got a problem that also seems insurmountable to solve. It’s the classic boiling frog dilemma. Windows has just had decades of heating water to get to where we are.
      - drkhn1234 4y ago
drkhn1234 4y ago
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
On the contrary, Linux is in a good position for the same reason you think it isn't. As the desktop/laptop market shrinks to advanced users, it loses the long tail of users who weren't technically capable enough to switch. At the same time, WINE/proton and even some native ports have vastly improved the gaming scene on Linux, and a decent chunk of non-gaming applications too. Sure, there will always be certain business applications that refuse to work on anything but actual Windows, but Linux works for a decent and growing part of the shrinking niche that is "real computers".
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  Just played some games on Linux Steam yesterday. It works so smooth. The Steam client is actually buggy at times with a tiling WM, but all the games worked great.. even the oned with Proton.
  - formerly_proven 4y ago
    It's actually amazing how well games work under Proton. Even a significant number of multiplayer titles just work, despite anti-cheat. There's some "random problems" sometimes with some titles, sure... but that's also true on Windows. Interestingly the problematic titles are more or less exactly opposite to Windows - new titles tend to work well on Windows and perhaps have issues on Linux (requiring some specific launch options or Proton version, perhaps graphical glitches). Meanwhile older titles are often problematic on Windows, but are less so on Linux. Might just be my selection bias though.
- jakogut 4y ago
  > Sure, there will always be certain business applications that refuse to work on anything but actual Windows I disagree with this statement, especially in the case where there's somebody motivated enough to patch Wine to support specific applications. At the end of the day, Windows applications expect a set of interfaces. As long as those interfaces exist and work as expected, the application will work.
  - 4y ago
tracerbulletx 4y ago
I don't think that's really true. Recent trends show the % of desktop/laptop users has normalized and is no longer trending down.
mhh__ 4y ago
Soo niche except for 99.99999% of devs
- vips7L 4y ago
  A lot of devs don’t want to tinker with Linux. Myself included. And this is disregarding all of the work places that only give out Windows or MacOS machines.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    I use Linux. No tinkering required if you use a major distro. I used to like to tinker with stuff, but slowly my viewpoint changed. Most of the time these tweaks are just different, not better, and a waste of time. Worse, whenever you have to use a more stock configuration on another machine, you are fumbling around. These days I just use the defaults on almost everything, whether Windows, Mac, or Linux.
  - mhh__ 4y ago
    The comment I am replying to says that computers with keyboards are niche, that's what I'm replying to
  - mhh__ 4y ago
    Also I've spent a grand total of 30 minutes tinkering with my Linux machines this year, windows has had to be reinstalled twice.
  - tormeh 4y ago
    No tinkering required. Tinkering can be tempting and dangerous, but if you keep yourself in check it's just not a thing you need to do. Unless you install Arch, but then you deserve what you get. Just install Ubuntu or Pop and you'll be fine.
    - phendrenad2 4y ago
      "No tinkering required" needs to come with a big YMMV. Most of the devs I've polled about their Linux experience matches the OP, they tried it and went back to Mac/Windows.
oliwarner 4y ago
While there are still use-cases where the traditional laptop/desktop form-factor remains the answer and there are Windows users, Windows getting worse and Linux getting better will continue to see people migrate over. No, there' won't be an explosion, it's a death by a thousand cuts. The bemused amongst us are wondering why Microsoft is the one holding the knife.

by dzdt 4y ago

als0 4y ago

The year of the Linux Desktop already happened, just not in the way people wanted - Android and Chromebooks.

nibbleshifter 4y ago
Tbh, everyone I know who has used an Android "laptop" or "Chromebook" has abandoned it after ~6 months for a "real computer". Turns out Native > Webshit for many things.
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  I'm never buying another Chromebook and Chromebox because Google sunsetted my perfectly fine working laptop and Chromebox and now it can't do things like play streaming movies from HBO Max because the chrome version is too low. Spotify doesn't work either. Leaves few things left to do with it haha.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    Install Linux on it and you'll be able to use the latest version of Chromium and stream to your heart's content.
    - Mistletoe 4y ago
      I think I'll just sell it and get a used Macbook Air, they go for like $99 on Ebay now. Every time in my life I have installed Linux with such high hopes and get annoyed by all the crap that doesn't work.
      - the_third_wave 4y ago
        Can you give some examples of "things which do not work"? Seeing how as I've been using Linux for close to 30 years and have it running on loads of different types of hardware with more or less everything working - yes even Bluetooth - I'm always somewhat surprised by these problems which fail to haunt me.
        20after4 4y ago
        I think some people just don’t even bother to resolve an issue. Maybe it’s not even broken but just reflexively assumed to be broken if something isn’t immediately as they expect it to work. My parents both use Linux daily and rarely ever need me to provide any support. Ubuntu or Debian has worked out of the box on every machine I’ve touched over the last 10 years. Avoiding nvidia graphics is probably the secret to success though, and may be the issue responsible for many people who have a much more negative view of Linux “just working”
        Mistletoe 4y ago
        Wi-Fi is usually wonky and just various other things like video drivers etc. Here is the laptop you wanted me to try to install Linux on lol. Who has time for this shit? I just want to use the computer not futz around with it constantly. https://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/eku5tv/replacing_chromeos_with_ubuntu_on_an_arm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/chromeos/comments/eku5tv/replacing_... Like I said, spend $99 on MacBook Air, receive it, turn it on, it works. That’s all I care about. I don’t even like apple products really but I just want something I know will work.
        kaladin-jasnah 4y ago
        That is an ARM laptop, which means you have an especially low chance of installing Linux easily. Get an x86 Chromebook and you would probably have less issue, but yes, you may still have some hardware issues (especially since Chromebooks have spotty desktop Linux support). Get an off-the-shelf x86 laptop and you probably would be fine; maybe you will have a few issues. But instead of faulting Linux, consider this? Could you install Windows on this same laptop? Probably not. In fact, on many laptops, hardware support is limited on Windows without vendor drivers (although, there is a chance that this has gotten less bad these days). If you went and bought a used laptop that has official Linux support, like an XPS 13, then you could also open it, turn it on, and have it work with zero issues with Linux—the same way as a MacBook Air. Try Hackintoshing a random laptop from Best Buy and I think you will encounter similar issues with macOS.
pjmlp 4y ago
That is the Year of Linux kernel, there is nothing else from GNU/Linux on Android and ChromeOS.
- tormeh 4y ago
  It's a pretty good argument in favor of the GNU/Linux vs. plain Linux distinction. Which is not a thing I really thought I'd say.

the_third_wave 4y ago

For you, maybe not. For me it has been in the running - and mostly in the lead - for close to 30 years. There's Linux on this iMac, on the Thinkpad sitting next to it, on the server these connect to, on the phones lying on the desk, on the tablet. For all I know there is Linux in the washing machine as well, I never bothered to look. It seems like Gates' vision of "information at your fingertips" has come true, the only thing "missing" is Windows. I do have a few virtual machines on the server for the few packages (VAG ELSA, looking at you...) which don't run well on Linux/Wine but these only get started every other blue moon. By the way, the Chromebook you mentioned runs Linux. Google might eventually port this to Fuchsia but this remains to be seen.

veridies 4y ago

I think OP's point is that there's one more major use case — gaming — for which Windows has a newly viable competitor. It's not that Linux is going to replace Windows, but that Windows could suffer a death by a thousand cuts. I'll note that more and more offices that I encounter seem to be switching to Chromebooks.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
People keep saying this and then run into minor problems becoming bigger problems because frequently used programs end up being unusable or 3rd class citizen, behind both mobile and Mac users. Unless Linux is braindead easy to use without frustrations, it won't happen. Gamers pay more for lesser ease of access increases.
- croes 4y ago
  Yes, people are strange. Every problem on Linux is deal breaker, all the problems on Windows aren't.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    I mean, this is pretty easily explainable. People have grown up around Windows. The problems for the most part don’t change over time, so people have gotten used to them and have developed their own tried and true ways of doing something that sidesteps the problems they had. Switching to Linux brings with it a whole new swath of problems and fixes Windows problems so not only are users seeing new issues, their workarounds now have to be worked around because whatever was wrong in Windows works in Linux. Add to that the fact that most Linux users are power users and instructions therefore lean towards that, and you’ve got a problem that also seems insurmountable to solve. It’s the classic boiling frog dilemma. Windows has just had decades of heating water to get to where we are.
    - drkhn1234 4y ago

drkhn1234 4y ago

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

On the contrary, Linux is in a good position for the same reason you think it isn't. As the desktop/laptop market shrinks to advanced users, it loses the long tail of users who weren't technically capable enough to switch. At the same time, WINE/proton and even some native ports have vastly improved the gaming scene on Linux, and a decent chunk of non-gaming applications too. Sure, there will always be certain business applications that refuse to work on anything but actual Windows, but Linux works for a decent and growing part of the shrinking niche that is "real computers".

encryptluks2 4y ago
Just played some games on Linux Steam yesterday. It works so smooth. The Steam client is actually buggy at times with a tiling WM, but all the games worked great.. even the oned with Proton.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  It's actually amazing how well games work under Proton. Even a significant number of multiplayer titles just work, despite anti-cheat. There's some "random problems" sometimes with some titles, sure... but that's also true on Windows. Interestingly the problematic titles are more or less exactly opposite to Windows - new titles tend to work well on Windows and perhaps have issues on Linux (requiring some specific launch options or Proton version, perhaps graphical glitches). Meanwhile older titles are often problematic on Windows, but are less so on Linux. Might just be my selection bias though.
jakogut 4y ago
> Sure, there will always be certain business applications that refuse to work on anything but actual Windows I disagree with this statement, especially in the case where there's somebody motivated enough to patch Wine to support specific applications. At the end of the day, Windows applications expect a set of interfaces. As long as those interfaces exist and work as expected, the application will work.
- 4y ago

tracerbulletx 4y ago

I don't think that's really true. Recent trends show the % of desktop/laptop users has normalized and is no longer trending down.

mhh__ 4y ago

Soo niche except for 99.99999% of devs

vips7L 4y ago
A lot of devs don’t want to tinker with Linux. Myself included. And this is disregarding all of the work places that only give out Windows or MacOS machines.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  I use Linux. No tinkering required if you use a major distro. I used to like to tinker with stuff, but slowly my viewpoint changed. Most of the time these tweaks are just different, not better, and a waste of time. Worse, whenever you have to use a more stock configuration on another machine, you are fumbling around. These days I just use the defaults on almost everything, whether Windows, Mac, or Linux.
- mhh__ 4y ago
  The comment I am replying to says that computers with keyboards are niche, that's what I'm replying to
- mhh__ 4y ago
  Also I've spent a grand total of 30 minutes tinkering with my Linux machines this year, windows has had to be reinstalled twice.
- tormeh 4y ago
  No tinkering required. Tinkering can be tempting and dangerous, but if you keep yourself in check it's just not a thing you need to do. Unless you install Arch, but then you deserve what you get. Just install Ubuntu or Pop and you'll be fine.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    "No tinkering required" needs to come with a big YMMV. Most of the devs I've polled about their Linux experience matches the OP, they tried it and went back to Mac/Windows.

oliwarner 4y ago

While there are still use-cases where the traditional laptop/desktop form-factor remains the answer and there are Windows users, Windows getting worse and Linux getting better will continue to see people migrate over. No, there' won't be an explosion, it's a death by a thousand cuts. The bemused amongst us are wondering why Microsoft is the one holding the knife.