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Precisely! Not to mention a fully specced out Tesla Model 3 is $80k and Model Y is now.. $90k, and the tax credits are basically gone! I remember getting a pr

Precisely! Not to mention a fully specced out Tesla Model 3 is $80k and Model Y is now.. $90k, and the tax credits are basically gone! I remember getting a pretty well configured Model 3 for $50k after tax incentives in their first year of production. For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane.

asoneth 4y ago
Agreed that they are expensive cars that have gotten even more expensive over the last decade. But comparing absolute numbers for a car you bought five years ago may be misleading because the majority of the increase is likely due to inflation. Back of the envelope math: If you were in CA and got $7.5k federal and $2.5k state credits that means the Model 3 you bought in 2017 was ~$60k or ~$73k in today's dollars. If it's now $80k then that's a real price increase of ~$7k in today's dollars. That's certainly an increase, but making an expensive car slightly more expensive doesn't seem particularly insane to me.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Inflation is a huge factor here for sure. Most people probably can't get their heads around a well equipped Toyota Corolla approaching $30k or Honda Accord hitting $40k. Mentally to me these are BMW 3-series prices, but that's not been true for some time! If you are in the market for a 3-row / 7 seater, you can spend $55k on a Toyota Highlander SUV or $40k on a Toyota Siena minivan. It's genuinely pretty challenging to spend under $30k on a new car now outside fairly basic 2-4 door smaller sedan/hatchback vehicles in their base trim without options.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > outside fairly basic [...] vehicles in their base trim without options Nothing wrong with basic vehicles "in their base trim without options", we have two parked outside the house right now, and the vehicle we owned before them was similar.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      Agreed. I am only trying to illustrate that the line between luxury/excess in autos has shifted substantially in the last few years partially inflation driven and partially cheap credit / long loan terms driven. The universe of under-$30k cars is now quite limited whereas 5 years ago, one could possibly describe $30k+ as being luxury.
      - kelnos 4y ago
        Hell, somehow my brain is still stuck in the 90s, where $30k would get you a very nice car indeed. I was a teenager then, so perhaps I'm anchored there because it's when I first started getting interested in things like that, and first started driving. (Gas was also 92 cents per gallon for a bit while I was in high school, oof.) My family also always only bought used cars (and I continued this practice), so I guess that further skewed my conception of car cost downward. I only just bought my first new car recently, and I still haven't really adjusted to the reality of both what current prices are like, and how much more expensive a new car is.
        asoneth 4y ago
        I could have written the same comment and have mixed feelings about turning into the old person who feels that everything was cheaper "back in my day". I try and remind myself that for the most part it's not that cars are that much more expensive but that dollars are worth so much less.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Franchise dealers typically stock few if any vehicles in their base trim without options. Those vehicles often exist only in token numbers so that the manufacturer can advertise a low starting price, but they're not readily available to most consumers. Of course that varies by brand.
Gordonjcp 4y ago
> For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane. For a shit car with the interior fit and finish of a poverty-spec Skoda, and all the important controls replaced with a bloody great iPad that blinds you at night. Oh, and it's from an obscenely "techbro" company. Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  No, you're not alone, but they still have a cachet in a certain crowd (the "green" and "forward-thinking" types love them). Hopefully it goes away soon.
  - teg4n_ 4y ago
    i dunno my parents fit in that category and told me they will not consider a Tesla as long as it’s associated with Musk. EVs of other companies are really quite nice these days so i don’t think they are losing anything. Right now that have a new plugin hybrid RAV4.
- yourapostasy 4y ago
  > Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas I could excuse the drawbacks you cited and the cost if they were the Framework laptop of the automotive world. But at those price points, and a repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill”, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I’ll buy a Tesla.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    > repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill” I have a couple of old Range Rovers. There are very few things you can't fix with a half-inch spanner and a hammer, and those you can fix with a 7/16th spanner and a bit of sticky tape. They run on propane, so they get cheap tax and can be registered as Low Emission Vehicles, which is pretty hilarious for a 4-litre V8. Combined they probably still have a smaller ecological footprint than making one Tesla Model S. They've also got far comfier seats.

asoneth 4y ago

Agreed that they are expensive cars that have gotten even more expensive over the last decade. But comparing absolute numbers for a car you bought five years ago may be misleading because the majority of the increase is likely due to inflation. Back of the envelope math: If you were in CA and got $7.5k federal and $2.5k state credits that means the Model 3 you bought in 2017 was ~$60k or ~$73k in today's dollars. If it's now $80k then that's a real price increase of ~$7k in today's dollars. That's certainly an increase, but making an expensive car slightly more expensive doesn't seem particularly insane to me.

steveBK123 4y ago
Inflation is a huge factor here for sure. Most people probably can't get their heads around a well equipped Toyota Corolla approaching $30k or Honda Accord hitting $40k. Mentally to me these are BMW 3-series prices, but that's not been true for some time! If you are in the market for a 3-row / 7 seater, you can spend $55k on a Toyota Highlander SUV or $40k on a Toyota Siena minivan. It's genuinely pretty challenging to spend under $30k on a new car now outside fairly basic 2-4 door smaller sedan/hatchback vehicles in their base trim without options.
- logifail 4y ago
  > outside fairly basic [...] vehicles in their base trim without options Nothing wrong with basic vehicles "in their base trim without options", we have two parked outside the house right now, and the vehicle we owned before them was similar.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    Agreed. I am only trying to illustrate that the line between luxury/excess in autos has shifted substantially in the last few years partially inflation driven and partially cheap credit / long loan terms driven. The universe of under-$30k cars is now quite limited whereas 5 years ago, one could possibly describe $30k+ as being luxury.
    - kelnos 4y ago
      Hell, somehow my brain is still stuck in the 90s, where $30k would get you a very nice car indeed. I was a teenager then, so perhaps I'm anchored there because it's when I first started getting interested in things like that, and first started driving. (Gas was also 92 cents per gallon for a bit while I was in high school, oof.) My family also always only bought used cars (and I continued this practice), so I guess that further skewed my conception of car cost downward. I only just bought my first new car recently, and I still haven't really adjusted to the reality of both what current prices are like, and how much more expensive a new car is.
      - asoneth 4y ago
        I could have written the same comment and have mixed feelings about turning into the old person who feels that everything was cheaper "back in my day". I try and remind myself that for the most part it's not that cars are that much more expensive but that dollars are worth so much less.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Franchise dealers typically stock few if any vehicles in their base trim without options. Those vehicles often exist only in token numbers so that the manufacturer can advertise a low starting price, but they're not readily available to most consumers. Of course that varies by brand.

Gordonjcp 4y ago

> For ~$70k you used to be able to get a Model S, which now STARTS at $105k. Easily configurable into the $130-160k range now.. insane. For a shit car with the interior fit and finish of a poverty-spec Skoda, and all the important controls replaced with a bloody great iPad that blinds you at night. Oh, and it's from an obscenely "techbro" company. Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas?

pclmulqdq 4y ago
No, you're not alone, but they still have a cachet in a certain crowd (the "green" and "forward-thinking" types love them). Hopefully it goes away soon.
- teg4n_ 4y ago
  i dunno my parents fit in that category and told me they will not consider a Tesla as long as it’s associated with Musk. EVs of other companies are really quite nice these days so i don’t think they are losing anything. Right now that have a new plugin hybrid RAV4.
yourapostasy 4y ago
> Am I the only one not impressed in any sense by Teslas I could excuse the drawbacks you cited and the cost if they were the Framework laptop of the automotive world. But at those price points, and a repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill”, there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell I’ll buy a Tesla.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  > repairability narrative that is not much better than, “out of warranty and one accident away from into landfill” I have a couple of old Range Rovers. There are very few things you can't fix with a half-inch spanner and a hammer, and those you can fix with a 7/16th spanner and a bit of sticky tape. They run on propane, so they get cheap tax and can be registered as Low Emission Vehicles, which is pretty hilarious for a 4-litre V8. Combined they probably still have a smaller ecological footprint than making one Tesla Model S. They've also got far comfier seats.