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Yes I think my point is that they simply signal differently by for example regaling you about how they spent $5000 on custom designed esoteric tiles from a loca

Yes I think my point is that they simply signal differently by for example regaling you about how they spent $5000 on custom designed esoteric tiles from a local artisan for their shower. Personally I don't think things that are 90% purchase/consumption (housing/renovations/appliances) are hobbies in the same way as photography/kitesurfing/gardening/cycling which may be expensive but have some sort of skill/learning/activity attached.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
closeparen 4y ago
Renovation isn’t the hobby here, they’re not doing it themselves. But a passion for cooking justifies the high end kitchen. An interest in architecture and design justifies bringing good examples of it home.
- steveBK123 4y ago
  Sure, if you have the money and interest, spend it. But people often conflate "investment" & consumption when its anything related to home renovation. I'd still argue these types of "hobbies" are 90% consumption, and for most of the people I know.. usually financed with loans. No one I know with a $100k kitchen cooks any better than my poor immigrant grandmother did.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    Think of it like a machine shop. Expensive tools work way, way better than cheap ones. I also have a restaurant grade toaster. It costs quite a bit more than the usual toasters do. But the usual ones would always break after a year or two. The restaurant toaster makes better toast, and has worked fine for 25 years now. It was actually cheaper to get the restaurant grade one over the long haul.
    - depressedpanda 4y ago
      > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        On the other hand, if the wealthy person bought the $10 boots and invested the other $40, the investment could throw off enough money to keep him in annual $10 boots forever.
    - fbdab103 4y ago
      What are you doing to your toasters? My toaster had a good 10+ year run before I ultimately gave it away because I purchased a toaster oven. This was a Target/Walmart unremarkable kit that must surely have cost <$40, most likely something around $20 because I was a broke college kid.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        They would just quit. Like my drip coffee maker. The heating element or the switch always breaks after a couple years. It's hard to buy an expensive one, as those always come with lots of buttons and a manual. I just want one that I put the coffee and water in and turn it on.
browningstreet 4y ago
I worked for a wealthy man. I remember two stories among many: He once told me he was upgrading the doorknobs and hinges in this house. The bill just for those items came to $45K. We were both getting coffee in the office once, and he looked towards me and ask, “My socks cost more than everything you’re wearing.” And he liked me.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  Nono, the price of his socks were more than everything you’re wearing. They probably cost the same as your socks :)
- ww520 4y ago
  > “My socks cost more than everything you’re wearing.” That’s a strange thing to waste money on for signaling. It just showed the lack of understanding on marginal utility on commodity items.
  - mlyle 4y ago
    > It just showed the lack of understanding on marginal utility on commodity items. I think you're showing the lack of understanding of marginal utility. By the time you're spending $45k on doorknobs, $400 on socks might offer equal marginal utility per dollar.
    - steveBK123 4y ago
      I think a lot of what this thread shows is that everyone has a different utility function. That's kind of whats interesting about the modern economy is we can all express our preferences in how we spend. The bottom end has gotten much cheaper and the top end has gotten exponentially more expensive, and in many markets the middle has sort of disappeared. This contrasts a lot with the 1950s boom era where there was a big thick middle end and not a huge range from bottom to top.
      - MandieD 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

closeparen 4y ago

Renovation isn’t the hobby here, they’re not doing it themselves. But a passion for cooking justifies the high end kitchen. An interest in architecture and design justifies bringing good examples of it home.

steveBK123 4y ago
Sure, if you have the money and interest, spend it. But people often conflate "investment" & consumption when its anything related to home renovation. I'd still argue these types of "hobbies" are 90% consumption, and for most of the people I know.. usually financed with loans. No one I know with a $100k kitchen cooks any better than my poor immigrant grandmother did.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  Think of it like a machine shop. Expensive tools work way, way better than cheap ones. I also have a restaurant grade toaster. It costs quite a bit more than the usual toasters do. But the usual ones would always break after a year or two. The restaurant toaster makes better toast, and has worked fine for 25 years now. It was actually cheaper to get the restaurant grade one over the long haul.
  - depressedpanda 4y ago
    > The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      On the other hand, if the wealthy person bought the $10 boots and invested the other $40, the investment could throw off enough money to keep him in annual $10 boots forever.
  - fbdab103 4y ago
    What are you doing to your toasters? My toaster had a good 10+ year run before I ultimately gave it away because I purchased a toaster oven. This was a Target/Walmart unremarkable kit that must surely have cost <$40, most likely something around $20 because I was a broke college kid.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      They would just quit. Like my drip coffee maker. The heating element or the switch always breaks after a couple years. It's hard to buy an expensive one, as those always come with lots of buttons and a manual. I just want one that I put the coffee and water in and turn it on.

browningstreet 4y ago

I worked for a wealthy man. I remember two stories among many: He once told me he was upgrading the doorknobs and hinges in this house. The bill just for those items came to $45K. We were both getting coffee in the office once, and he looked towards me and ask, “My socks cost more than everything you’re wearing.” And he liked me.

Scoundreller 4y ago
Nono, the price of his socks were more than everything you’re wearing. They probably cost the same as your socks :)
ww520 4y ago
> “My socks cost more than everything you’re wearing.” That’s a strange thing to waste money on for signaling. It just showed the lack of understanding on marginal utility on commodity items.
- mlyle 4y ago
  > It just showed the lack of understanding on marginal utility on commodity items. I think you're showing the lack of understanding of marginal utility. By the time you're spending $45k on doorknobs, $400 on socks might offer equal marginal utility per dollar.
  - steveBK123 4y ago
    I think a lot of what this thread shows is that everyone has a different utility function. That's kind of whats interesting about the modern economy is we can all express our preferences in how we spend. The bottom end has gotten much cheaper and the top end has gotten exponentially more expensive, and in many markets the middle has sort of disappeared. This contrasts a lot with the 1950s boom era where there was a big thick middle end and not a huge range from bottom to top.
    - MandieD 4y ago