7 ms·

As someone who has a close relative diagnosed with this disease, I'm always on the lookout for new information. So this is interesting. One area I'm particular

As someone who has a close relative diagnosed with this disease, I'm always on the lookout for new information. So this is interesting. One area I'm particularly interested in is the correlation to diabetes. It's a factor that I found being mentioned here and there in some references. In the immediate case that interests me, there's a 20+ year history of type 2 diabetes and a recent scan showed severe bilateral hypocampal atrophy. When googling for a link between the two I found this: "Lower insulin secretion was significantly associated with HPGA (hippocampal and parahippocampal gyrus atrophy) in patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus. The results of this study support the hypothesis that insulin‐signaling abnormalities are involved in the pathophysiology of Alzheimer’s disease." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8504906/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8504906/ Yet, the mechanism of this, if indeed there's causality (not just correlation) does not seem to be known.

lofaszvanitt 4y ago
Yudkin wrote the book about sugars Pure, White and Deadly in 1972. EMPHASIS: 1972! 50 years ago. And processed foods is everywhere. And people are wondering why we have diabetes and possibly brain diabetes that is Alzheimer's.
hnthrowaway8493 4y ago
It doesn't directly contradict the paper you linked, but figured it's worth mentioning - the hypothesis about a diabetes-Alzheimer's link might have originally stemmed from fraudulent work. From the "related story" at the bottom of the linked Science article about fraud https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabricatio... (related story is titled "Research backing experimental Alzheimer’s drug was first target of suspicion", also available in their reader here: https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.ade0181?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D81822615985399127293767217257181301656%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1670791362 https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.ade0181?ado...) > The most influential Cassava-related paper appeared in The Journal of Clinical Investigation in 2012. The authors—including Wang; Arnold; David Bennett, who leads a brain-tissue bank at Rush University; and his Rush colleague, neuroscientist Zoe Arvanitakis—linked insulin resistance to Alzheimer’s and the formation of amyloid plaques. Cassava scientists say Simufilam lessens insulin resistance. They relied on a method in which dead brain tissue, frozen for a decade and then partially thawed and chopped, purportedly generates chemical signals. > Schrag and others say it contradicts basic neurobiology. Schrag adds that he could find no evidence that other investigators have replicated that result. (None of the authors agreed to be interviewed for this article.) > That paper supported the science behind Simufilam, Schrag says, “and spawned an entire field of research in Alzheimer’s, ‘diabetes of the brain.’” It has been cited more than 1500 times. Schrag sent the journal’s editor his analysis of more than 15 suspect images in two groups. The editor says the journal analyzed high-resolution versions of the images in the first group. It could not corroborate his findings and therefore did not investigate further.
lucidrains 4y ago
in some medical circles, alzheimers is referred to as "type 3 diabetes"
- piyh 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_diabetes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_diabetes Interesting to find out it has it's own wiki page
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- thevulcanlogic 4y ago
  so why don't Alzheimer's patient take diabetes medication and problem solved?
  - nradov 4y ago
    Certain medications such as metformin and SGLT2 inhibitors can be fairly effective in treating type-2 diabetes, but they don't really correct the underlying pathology. Lifestyle changes including increased exercise and greatly reducing carbohydrate consumption will do more over the long run and should be the first line therapy for patients with metabolic syndrome or pre-diabetes. Of course that won't be sufficient for some patients, and others are unwilling to make the necessary lifestyle changes.
tiffanyh 4y ago
> One area I'm particularly interested in is the correlation to diabetes. Sugar. I think the correlation is more so to sugar. I too had a loved one with Alzheimer’s, and there was definitely strong reason to believe sugar was a contributing factor.
- AlecSchueler 4y ago
  What was the strong reason?
- cactusplant7374 4y ago
  I consume a lot of sugar. I’m not diabetic or pre diabetic. I would suspect underlying inflammation leads to some nasty effects. The same for heart disease.
  - simmerup 4y ago
    Are you balding?
    - cactusplant7374 4y ago
      No.
      - simmerup 4y ago
        Thanks
  - 6nf 4y ago
    Why do you consume a lot of sugar?
    - tejtm 4y ago
      evolved preference v.s. targeted marketing v.s. agribusiness subsidies ... just kidding they all work together
eirikurh 4y ago
From the article: "A report in the July 2020 issue of The Lancet listed the variety of known risk factors for dementia, ranging from air pollution to repetitive head trauma to systemic infections." The article doesn't mention diabetes or sugar.
- kyaghmour 4y ago
  I'm aware that the parent article doesn't refer to diabetes. I never said it did. As a general comment regarding this disease I shared what my current state of mind on this was. Is there a link between diabetes and the mechanism explored in the parent, maybe? I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, if enough paths are explored we'll eventually find the right one. Diabetes seems to be an interesting one for me ... but I'm by no means an expert. Just an interested observer that is doing a genuine effort to understand.
- DoreenMichele 4y ago
  There’s a strong correlation between Alzheimer’s disease and high blood sugar levels. https://www.alz.org/media/Documents/alzheimers-dementia-diabetes-cognitive-decline-ts.pdf https://www.alz.org/media/Documents/alzheimers-dementia-diab...
  - kyaghmour 4y ago
    Wow. Thx for this. Greatly appreciated.
    - DoreenMichele 4y ago
      There's also a lot of research out there that links diabetes to inflammation. Inflammation can be due to diet (chemical derangement) or infection or both. Inflammation is implicated in a lot of brain issues as well.
- uplifter 4y ago
  Actually, that 2020 report[0] does mention diabetes: >Overall, a growing body of evidence supports the nine potentially modifiable risk factors for dementia modelled by the 2017 Lancet Commission on dementia prevention, intervention, and care: less education, hypertension, hearing impairment, smoking, obesity, depression, physical inactivity, diabetes, and low social contact. [0] Full report from July 2020 issue of The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30367-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
nradov 4y ago
Research has shown that many type-2 diabetes patients can put their disease into remission, or at least reduce the need for exogenous insulin, through nutritional ketosis. https://www.virtahealth.com/research https://www.virtahealth.com/research It's unknown whether that would reduce the risk of Alzheimer's disease. Worth a try anyways.
r930 4y ago
My speculation, as with others, is that Alzheimer's disease (as well as many other slow progressing diseases) is just a metabolic disease, inline with the "type 3 diabetes" comments. Look into supporting mitochondria health [0] and the glymphatic system [1]: good diet (with fasting), light to moderate exercise, sleep and wake at the same time each day for circadian rhythm training, reduce unnecessary stress. Once the basics have been implemented, some supplements could help to further support cell function if needed: Longevity supplements that Dr David Sinclair takes [2], boosting cellular glutathione stores, with NACET, glycine, selenium [3] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684129/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684129/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698404/ [2] https://novoslabs.com/best-anti-aging-supplements-that-harvard-scientist-david-sinclair-takes/ https://novoslabs.com/best-anti-aging-supplements-that-harva... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7889054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7889054/
- aszantu 4y ago
  there's anecdotal evidence that adding cocos-fat to the patient's diet helps them. One nurse once told me that there's a connection between the decline and another medication - one for reflux, pantoprazol or so. If the connection is via diabetes, a low carb/no carb diet might help - if someone else is cooking the food that should be easy. God's speed!

lofaszvanitt 4y ago

Yudkin wrote the book about sugars Pure, White and Deadly in 1972. EMPHASIS: 1972! 50 years ago. And processed foods is everywhere. And people are wondering why we have diabetes and possibly brain diabetes that is Alzheimer's.

hnthrowaway8493 4y ago

It doesn't directly contradict the paper you linked, but figured it's worth mentioning - the hypothesis about a diabetes-Alzheimer's link might have originally stemmed from fraudulent work. From the "related story" at the bottom of the linked Science article about fraud https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease https://www.science.org/content/article/potential-fabricatio... (related story is titled "Research backing experimental Alzheimer’s drug was first target of suspicion", also available in their reader here: https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.ade0181?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D81822615985399127293767217257181301656%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1670791362 https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/science.ade0181?ado...) > The most influential Cassava-related paper appeared in The Journal of Clinical Investigation in 2012. The authors—including Wang; Arnold; David Bennett, who leads a brain-tissue bank at Rush University; and his Rush colleague, neuroscientist Zoe Arvanitakis—linked insulin resistance to Alzheimer’s and the formation of amyloid plaques. Cassava scientists say Simufilam lessens insulin resistance. They relied on a method in which dead brain tissue, frozen for a decade and then partially thawed and chopped, purportedly generates chemical signals. > Schrag and others say it contradicts basic neurobiology. Schrag adds that he could find no evidence that other investigators have replicated that result. (None of the authors agreed to be interviewed for this article.) > That paper supported the science behind Simufilam, Schrag says, “and spawned an entire field of research in Alzheimer’s, ‘diabetes of the brain.’” It has been cited more than 1500 times. Schrag sent the journal’s editor his analysis of more than 15 suspect images in two groups. The editor says the journal analyzed high-resolution versions of the images in the first group. It could not corroborate his findings and therefore did not investigate further.

lucidrains 4y ago

in some medical circles, alzheimers is referred to as "type 3 diabetes"

piyh 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_diabetes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_3_diabetes Interesting to find out it has it's own wiki page
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
thevulcanlogic 4y ago
so why don't Alzheimer's patient take diabetes medication and problem solved?
- nradov 4y ago
  Certain medications such as metformin and SGLT2 inhibitors can be fairly effective in treating type-2 diabetes, but they don't really correct the underlying pathology. Lifestyle changes including increased exercise and greatly reducing carbohydrate consumption will do more over the long run and should be the first line therapy for patients with metabolic syndrome or pre-diabetes. Of course that won't be sufficient for some patients, and others are unwilling to make the necessary lifestyle changes.

tiffanyh 4y ago

> One area I'm particularly interested in is the correlation to diabetes. Sugar. I think the correlation is more so to sugar. I too had a loved one with Alzheimer’s, and there was definitely strong reason to believe sugar was a contributing factor.

AlecSchueler 4y ago
What was the strong reason?
cactusplant7374 4y ago
I consume a lot of sugar. I’m not diabetic or pre diabetic. I would suspect underlying inflammation leads to some nasty effects. The same for heart disease.
- simmerup 4y ago
  Are you balding?
  - cactusplant7374 4y ago
    No.
    - simmerup 4y ago
      Thanks
- 6nf 4y ago
  Why do you consume a lot of sugar?
  - tejtm 4y ago
    evolved preference v.s. targeted marketing v.s. agribusiness subsidies ... just kidding they all work together

eirikurh 4y ago

From the article: "A report in the July 2020 issue of The Lancet listed the variety of known risk factors for dementia, ranging from air pollution to repetitive head trauma to systemic infections." The article doesn't mention diabetes or sugar.

kyaghmour 4y ago
I'm aware that the parent article doesn't refer to diabetes. I never said it did. As a general comment regarding this disease I shared what my current state of mind on this was. Is there a link between diabetes and the mechanism explored in the parent, maybe? I don't know. But maybe, just maybe, if enough paths are explored we'll eventually find the right one. Diabetes seems to be an interesting one for me ... but I'm by no means an expert. Just an interested observer that is doing a genuine effort to understand.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
There’s a strong correlation between Alzheimer’s disease and high blood sugar levels. https://www.alz.org/media/Documents/alzheimers-dementia-diabetes-cognitive-decline-ts.pdf https://www.alz.org/media/Documents/alzheimers-dementia-diab...
- kyaghmour 4y ago
  Wow. Thx for this. Greatly appreciated.
  - DoreenMichele 4y ago
    There's also a lot of research out there that links diabetes to inflammation. Inflammation can be due to diet (chemical derangement) or infection or both. Inflammation is implicated in a lot of brain issues as well.
uplifter 4y ago
Actually, that 2020 report[0] does mention diabetes: >Overall, a growing body of evidence supports the nine potentially modifiable risk factors for dementia modelled by the 2017 Lancet Commission on dementia prevention, intervention, and care: less education, hypertension, hearing impairment, smoking, obesity, depression, physical inactivity, diabetes, and low social contact. [0] Full report from July 2020 issue of The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30367-6/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

nradov 4y ago

Research has shown that many type-2 diabetes patients can put their disease into remission, or at least reduce the need for exogenous insulin, through nutritional ketosis. https://www.virtahealth.com/research https://www.virtahealth.com/research It's unknown whether that would reduce the risk of Alzheimer's disease. Worth a try anyways.

r930 4y ago

My speculation, as with others, is that Alzheimer's disease (as well as many other slow progressing diseases) is just a metabolic disease, inline with the "type 3 diabetes" comments. Look into supporting mitochondria health [0] and the glymphatic system [1]: good diet (with fasting), light to moderate exercise, sleep and wake at the same time each day for circadian rhythm training, reduce unnecessary stress. Once the basics have been implemented, some supplements could help to further support cell function if needed: Longevity supplements that Dr David Sinclair takes [2], boosting cellular glutathione stores, with NACET, glycine, selenium [3] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684129/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684129/ [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698404/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7698404/ [2] https://novoslabs.com/best-anti-aging-supplements-that-harvard-scientist-david-sinclair-takes/ https://novoslabs.com/best-anti-aging-supplements-that-harva... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7889054/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7889054/

aszantu 4y ago
there's anecdotal evidence that adding cocos-fat to the patient's diet helps them. One nurse once told me that there's a connection between the decline and another medication - one for reflux, pantoprazol or so. If the connection is via diabetes, a low carb/no carb diet might help - if someone else is cooking the food that should be easy. God's speed!