4 ms·

I don't necessarily disagree, but I offer a couple of counterarguments: A. Most people who bought this knew what it was, that it was unfinished, and they were f

by derac 4y ago

I don't necessarily disagree, but I offer a couple of counterarguments: A. Most people who bought this knew what it was, that it was unfinished, and they were funding the research (which is a public good to some extent) B. There should be some degree of burden on the customer to research what they are buying, especially with a claim as extraordinary as "Full Self-Driving"

derac 4y ago
Counterargument to myself: Elon sold it with a claim that it would skyrocket the value of the vehicles.
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  I never did understand how that passed the sniff test. Unleashing a fleet of self driving robotaxis wouldn't skryrocket the value of anything, it would be the fastest race to the bottom in memory.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    That particular aspect passes the sniff test for me. The race would only go so fast with a million cars produced per year, only some of which would be participating.
rootusrootus 4y ago
Maybe we should bring back patent medicines again? New, improved Radithor! If you're unhappy when your jaw falls off, it just means you should have read the fine print.
CPLX 4y ago
Maybe the burden should be on the seller to call it “unfinished and unreliable attempt at self driving” instead? The idea that we don’t let marketers make misleading product claims is very old. As a society our point of view is that no, actually the burden of proof should not be on the customer to figure out if a tube labeled “toothpaste” is actually wet gypsum or something.
notahacker 4y ago
The research burden might lie with the customer for "don't take your hands off the wheel just because if you ignore the instructions it sounds like something an 'autopilot' would let you do" But I don't think it's true for believing the car company CEO when he repeatedly said that the car came equipped with all the necessary hardware for full self driving, and if you purchased the $15000 package the full self driving software would be with you by the end of the year, with most of the remaining obstacles being regulatory... It's a bit like consumers have a responsibility to read the label on medical devices to use them properly, but they don't have a responsibility to advance their medical understanding to the point they can tell if Elizabeth Holmes is telling the truth about her product actually doing what she said it was doing.

by derac 4y ago

derac 4y ago

Counterargument to myself: Elon sold it with a claim that it would skyrocket the value of the vehicles.

rootusrootus 4y ago
I never did understand how that passed the sniff test. Unleashing a fleet of self driving robotaxis wouldn't skryrocket the value of anything, it would be the fastest race to the bottom in memory.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  That particular aspect passes the sniff test for me. The race would only go so fast with a million cars produced per year, only some of which would be participating.

rootusrootus 4y ago

Maybe we should bring back patent medicines again? New, improved Radithor! If you're unhappy when your jaw falls off, it just means you should have read the fine print.

CPLX 4y ago

Maybe the burden should be on the seller to call it “unfinished and unreliable attempt at self driving” instead? The idea that we don’t let marketers make misleading product claims is very old. As a society our point of view is that no, actually the burden of proof should not be on the customer to figure out if a tube labeled “toothpaste” is actually wet gypsum or something.

notahacker 4y ago

The research burden might lie with the customer for "don't take your hands off the wheel just because if you ignore the instructions it sounds like something an 'autopilot' would let you do" But I don't think it's true for believing the car company CEO when he repeatedly said that the car came equipped with all the necessary hardware for full self driving, and if you purchased the $15000 package the full self driving software would be with you by the end of the year, with most of the remaining obstacles being regulatory... It's a bit like consumers have a responsibility to read the label on medical devices to use them properly, but they don't have a responsibility to advance their medical understanding to the point they can tell if Elizabeth Holmes is telling the truth about her product actually doing what she said it was doing.