7 ms·

Gender Inequities in Household Labor Predict Lower Sexual Desire in Women

42 points by GavCo 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago
It can go the other way around too.
- mgrthrow 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
logicalmonster 4y ago
Speaking in general real-world terms, I'd think complaining about unfairness in the division of labor would only matter for sexual desire in women if the man wasn't at a level the woman respects. If a broke husband with a massive beer belly while sitting planted in front of the TV and covered in pretzel crumbs told his wife to clean all of the dishes and vacuum the house and then do laundry, anybody would probably mentally check out of that relationship eventually, and deservedly so. But if a wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband asked his wife to do 100% of the housework, that's probably not going to dampen sexual desire in the slightest.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  If you add up all the things that somebody could be resentful about I am sure that all of them would correlate to low sexual desire, and the more of them that are present the less the desire. The flip side is that 20% or so of women were sexually abused as children and that creates a situation where no matter how many current time causes of resentment you remove and no matter how many positive things you try to add it is like trying to get a fish to fly. There is a reason why they don’t let victims of sexual abuse serve on the juries of people like Danny Masterson because one person’s indulgence can permanently deprive the victim and their partners of what is an important part of life for most people.
  - Teever 4y ago
    The shit people sign their name to on the internet...
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      I’ve found going from ‘this is something that is true generically’ to ‘this is something I’ve lived’ turn -7 downvotes to +200 upvotes but I’d rather not air dirty laundry. I can say it makes people like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Book go Batman on people’s asses and lead to situations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offe...
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Not having victims of a specific crime serve as juries of a trial for that crime isn’t specific to sexual assault.
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      In the case of masterson it is a sexually specific crime. A sexual abuse victim would not be disqualified from serving on a jury for, say, bank robbery or embezzling. The main issue is that if happens to you it makes a wound that doesn’t ever heal and you are very inclined to want to pass your trauma forward to somebody…. If you knew that person crossing the road in front of you was a molestor you might think about not applying the brake…
      - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
        You’re assuming sexual assault victims not being the jury of sexual assault trials is somehow special to sexual assault victims because of how sexual assault is. In reality any victim of a crime is not eligible for jury to trial the exact same crime- victims of embezzlement are likely to be thrown out of embezzlement trials, gun violence victims from gun violent trials, etc. sexual assault isn’t somehow special in that case and has no correlation with the other claims you’re making.
- crote 4y ago
  Why would said wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband not just hire a maid? Besides, it's often not just about the fact that someone has to do household labor. A lot of women are realizing that said ideal husband somehow expects their partner to clean up after them, essentially taking over the role of his mother. This is despite both parties often having a full-time job. A lot of men demonstrate a form learned helplessness, and pretend they are unable to do even the most minimal form of household labor - often including things as trivial as putting the dishes they used in the dishwasher, or putting dirty laundry in the hamper. This needlessly complicates what should've been a trivial chore, and breeds resentment. A commonly-heard sentiment is that women feel like they have to care for their husband as if he is another child. Their husband expects them to act as his mother and a maid in one. I am not really surprised that this is a turn-off.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    > Why would said wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband not just hire a maid? You might be overthinking a generalized extreme example designed to illustrate my point.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - whoIsYou 4y ago
    women demonstrate learned helplessness far far more frequently. pretending they could not learn how to change a car's oil, fix a flat tire, or kill a bug, etc. but we have normalized it as a society. Same with men often having to treat their wives like children by handling all the finances, etc. But again, it's normalized and nobody says a thing
    - krapp 4y ago
      I think your impression of what constitutes 'normal' in this regard is a few generations out of date.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  Many wives would still want to have a (professional and social) life even if their partner is wealthy and hard-working. If you take all care of kids and of the house, it's quite hard to have time to be something. It's also exhausting in a bad way. Having said that, wives often discount the bits that their husbands do for their household. It goes like: Thing A is something only my husband knows how to do, so he would be doing it; whereas we are both capable of doing B so let's share it fairly. Things A tending to be large, more-spaced-out endeavors such as fixing things.
  - sgtnoodle 4y ago
    My wife and I had our second baby in October. I'm on paternity leave to help out. My wife is currently very sleep deprived due to breastfeeding at night, and she is also prone to anxiety from messy spaces. Our first child can tear up the house pretty quickly. A couple days ago, my wife was saying that she _felt_ like I wasn't helping out, even though the rational portion of her mind knows that I am. We just got our house exterior painted. Yesterday she insisted on helping out with some of the "handyman" work, and learned how to wire up some light fixtures.
- Loic 4y ago
  > But if a wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband asked his wife to do 100% of the housework, that's probably not going to dampen sexual desire in the slightest. The wealthy, hard-working and fit wife may be not that happy to do 100% of the housework while the wealthy, hard-working and fit husband sits in front of the TV.
tsol 4y ago
Yet as an older study found, Men Who Do More Housework Have Less Sex[x]. The only way to have a healthy sex life then is for everyone to not do that much housework. [x] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housework-have-less-sex/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housew...
- Aloha 4y ago
  Housework is just tiring, and after dusting, cleaning or vacuuming, no one wants to have sex.
  - oblak 4y ago
    - spacemadness 4y ago
      This is such a weird and oddly charged comment.
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    Immediately after cleaning? Sure, but I feel better when the house is clean, which puts me in a more receptive mood for sex. A messy house, even just floors that need mopping, is like having little bits sand in your socks. It's nothing that's going to kill, but it goes grind away at one's mood.
    - cat_plus_plus 4y ago
      There is a limit though - as life goes on and becomes more complex, there will never be a case where all pending business is taken care off and there are no worries. For example, children and pets will continuously generate little messes and handling them one by one will leave no time for anything else. With age, one's and one's partner's energy levels also become limited and if they do all the work as soon as it's pending, they will have no energy for anything else. Have to pick and choose and learn to tune out things that are not realistic to immediately address?
pkkm 4y ago
Direct link to full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/ Note that the data comes entirely from self-report (two surveys of a few hundred women each). Other studies suggest that people's perceptions of how much household labor they do aren't very accurate, so the causality could be: relationship problems -> less sex, more resentment -> more bias in the perception of labor division. Also, a different study [0], which used self-reported data too, found the opposite conclusion. To be honest, I'm not sure how to reconcile the difference. I look forward to other people's comments on the papers' methodologies. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/
rdtwo 4y ago
People who are tired have less sex drive news at 11
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
That needed a taxpayer-sponsored study? Could have just asked married guys about headaches...
strangattractor 4y ago
My own experiments conclude: If do more house work: not doing it right less sex else if do less house work: not doing enough less sex else less sex
CodeWriter23 4y ago
What we really need is a study with this method that assesses using housework as a seduction technique. I go scrub a few pots and she's ready.
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
Seriously? In developed countries much of housework is either neurotic and unnecessary (sweeping floors every day) or sign of extreme laziness or unhealthily low energy (leaving dirty laundry around). Either case will be obviously correlated with people not finding themselves or each other sexy. If it's just practical issues, there are plenty of dishes one can just throw into oven or pressure cooker and eat from paper plates. Or if you are middle class, hire professional cleaners to come every other week. But these issues are rarely practical. Could be a husband who doesn't respect his wife's personal time. Or a wife who pours her general anxiety into unnecessary busy work and then nags husband to do the same. Either way, resolving underlying issues rather than focusing on particular chores is needed for enjoyable marriage.
spicyusername 4y ago
It's long been true that woman shoulder a larger proportion of household mental, emotional, and physical labor. Doing dishes, raising children, decorating walls, scheduling appointments, organizing everything, etc. Additionally, many men, when left on their own, cultivate a home life just a hare nicer than that found in a horse barn. It's not surprising to me, then, that women find men who take part in maintaining the household more attractive.
fxtentacle 4y ago
Already the title is wrong and this seems to be rather low quality research. "Predict" would indicate a causation, but they only found a correlation. Plus all of the data was self-reported, so the overall mood of the reporting person will probably affect both factors, thereby creating a spurious correlation. The exact same data in the paper could also be used to argue that sexually satisfied housewives feel less burdened by the household work. That's why those that do feel burdened are those that also have a low sex desire.
david38 4y ago
I remember reading a study that said women’s appreciation increased as the amount of domestic labor he took on increased. However, her sexual attraction for him increased as his gym / other cool activities increased, even if it was done with time taken from domestic activities. So if you want to be friends, do the dishes. If you want better sex, hit the gym.

42 points by GavCo 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago

It can go the other way around too.

mgrthrow 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

logicalmonster 4y ago

Speaking in general real-world terms, I'd think complaining about unfairness in the division of labor would only matter for sexual desire in women if the man wasn't at a level the woman respects. If a broke husband with a massive beer belly while sitting planted in front of the TV and covered in pretzel crumbs told his wife to clean all of the dishes and vacuum the house and then do laundry, anybody would probably mentally check out of that relationship eventually, and deservedly so. But if a wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband asked his wife to do 100% of the housework, that's probably not going to dampen sexual desire in the slightest.

PaulHoule 4y ago
If you add up all the things that somebody could be resentful about I am sure that all of them would correlate to low sexual desire, and the more of them that are present the less the desire. The flip side is that 20% or so of women were sexually abused as children and that creates a situation where no matter how many current time causes of resentment you remove and no matter how many positive things you try to add it is like trying to get a fish to fly. There is a reason why they don’t let victims of sexual abuse serve on the juries of people like Danny Masterson because one person’s indulgence can permanently deprive the victim and their partners of what is an important part of life for most people.
- Teever 4y ago
  The shit people sign their name to on the internet...
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    I’ve found going from ‘this is something that is true generically’ to ‘this is something I’ve lived’ turn -7 downvotes to +200 upvotes but I’d rather not air dirty laundry. I can say it makes people like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Book go Batman on people’s asses and lead to situations like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offender_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Tuttle_Causeway_sex_offe...
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Not having victims of a specific crime serve as juries of a trial for that crime isn’t specific to sexual assault.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    In the case of masterson it is a sexually specific crime. A sexual abuse victim would not be disqualified from serving on a jury for, say, bank robbery or embezzling. The main issue is that if happens to you it makes a wound that doesn’t ever heal and you are very inclined to want to pass your trauma forward to somebody…. If you knew that person crossing the road in front of you was a molestor you might think about not applying the brake…
    - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
      You’re assuming sexual assault victims not being the jury of sexual assault trials is somehow special to sexual assault victims because of how sexual assault is. In reality any victim of a crime is not eligible for jury to trial the exact same crime- victims of embezzlement are likely to be thrown out of embezzlement trials, gun violence victims from gun violent trials, etc. sexual assault isn’t somehow special in that case and has no correlation with the other claims you’re making.
crote 4y ago
Why would said wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband not just hire a maid? Besides, it's often not just about the fact that someone has to do household labor. A lot of women are realizing that said ideal husband somehow expects their partner to clean up after them, essentially taking over the role of his mother. This is despite both parties often having a full-time job. A lot of men demonstrate a form learned helplessness, and pretend they are unable to do even the most minimal form of household labor - often including things as trivial as putting the dishes they used in the dishwasher, or putting dirty laundry in the hamper. This needlessly complicates what should've been a trivial chore, and breeds resentment. A commonly-heard sentiment is that women feel like they have to care for their husband as if he is another child. Their husband expects them to act as his mother and a maid in one. I am not really surprised that this is a turn-off.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > Why would said wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband not just hire a maid? You might be overthinking a generalized extreme example designed to illustrate my point.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- whoIsYou 4y ago
  women demonstrate learned helplessness far far more frequently. pretending they could not learn how to change a car's oil, fix a flat tire, or kill a bug, etc. but we have normalized it as a society. Same with men often having to treat their wives like children by handling all the finances, etc. But again, it's normalized and nobody says a thing
  - krapp 4y ago
    I think your impression of what constitutes 'normal' in this regard is a few generations out of date.
thriftwy 4y ago
Many wives would still want to have a (professional and social) life even if their partner is wealthy and hard-working. If you take all care of kids and of the house, it's quite hard to have time to be something. It's also exhausting in a bad way. Having said that, wives often discount the bits that their husbands do for their household. It goes like: Thing A is something only my husband knows how to do, so he would be doing it; whereas we are both capable of doing B so let's share it fairly. Things A tending to be large, more-spaced-out endeavors such as fixing things.
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  My wife and I had our second baby in October. I'm on paternity leave to help out. My wife is currently very sleep deprived due to breastfeeding at night, and she is also prone to anxiety from messy spaces. Our first child can tear up the house pretty quickly. A couple days ago, my wife was saying that she _felt_ like I wasn't helping out, even though the rational portion of her mind knows that I am. We just got our house exterior painted. Yesterday she insisted on helping out with some of the "handyman" work, and learned how to wire up some light fixtures.
Loic 4y ago
> But if a wealthy, hard-working, and fit husband asked his wife to do 100% of the housework, that's probably not going to dampen sexual desire in the slightest. The wealthy, hard-working and fit wife may be not that happy to do 100% of the housework while the wealthy, hard-working and fit husband sits in front of the TV.

tsol 4y ago

Yet as an older study found, Men Who Do More Housework Have Less Sex[x]. The only way to have a healthy sex life then is for everyone to not do that much housework. [x] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housework-have-less-sex/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housew...

Aloha 4y ago
Housework is just tiring, and after dusting, cleaning or vacuuming, no one wants to have sex.
- oblak 4y ago
  - spacemadness 4y ago
    This is such a weird and oddly charged comment.
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  Immediately after cleaning? Sure, but I feel better when the house is clean, which puts me in a more receptive mood for sex. A messy house, even just floors that need mopping, is like having little bits sand in your socks. It's nothing that's going to kill, but it goes grind away at one's mood.
  - cat_plus_plus 4y ago
    There is a limit though - as life goes on and becomes more complex, there will never be a case where all pending business is taken care off and there are no worries. For example, children and pets will continuously generate little messes and handling them one by one will leave no time for anything else. With age, one's and one's partner's energy levels also become limited and if they do all the work as soon as it's pending, they will have no energy for anything else. Have to pick and choose and learn to tune out things that are not realistic to immediately address?

pkkm 4y ago

Direct link to full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9483460/ Note that the data comes entirely from self-report (two surveys of a few hundred women each). Other studies suggest that people's perceptions of how much household labor they do aren't very accurate, so the causality could be: relationship problems -> less sex, more resentment -> more bias in the perception of labor division. Also, a different study [0], which used self-reported data too, found the opposite conclusion. To be honest, I'm not sure how to reconcile the difference. I look forward to other people's comments on the papers' methodologies. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/

rdtwo 4y ago

People who are tired have less sex drive news at 11

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

That needed a taxpayer-sponsored study? Could have just asked married guys about headaches...

strangattractor 4y ago

My own experiments conclude: If do more house work: not doing it right less sex else if do less house work: not doing enough less sex else less sex

CodeWriter23 4y ago

What we really need is a study with this method that assesses using housework as a seduction technique. I go scrub a few pots and she's ready.

cat_plus_plus 4y ago

Seriously? In developed countries much of housework is either neurotic and unnecessary (sweeping floors every day) or sign of extreme laziness or unhealthily low energy (leaving dirty laundry around). Either case will be obviously correlated with people not finding themselves or each other sexy. If it's just practical issues, there are plenty of dishes one can just throw into oven or pressure cooker and eat from paper plates. Or if you are middle class, hire professional cleaners to come every other week. But these issues are rarely practical. Could be a husband who doesn't respect his wife's personal time. Or a wife who pours her general anxiety into unnecessary busy work and then nags husband to do the same. Either way, resolving underlying issues rather than focusing on particular chores is needed for enjoyable marriage.

spicyusername 4y ago

It's long been true that woman shoulder a larger proportion of household mental, emotional, and physical labor. Doing dishes, raising children, decorating walls, scheduling appointments, organizing everything, etc. Additionally, many men, when left on their own, cultivate a home life just a hare nicer than that found in a horse barn. It's not surprising to me, then, that women find men who take part in maintaining the household more attractive.

fxtentacle 4y ago

Already the title is wrong and this seems to be rather low quality research. "Predict" would indicate a causation, but they only found a correlation. Plus all of the data was self-reported, so the overall mood of the reporting person will probably affect both factors, thereby creating a spurious correlation. The exact same data in the paper could also be used to argue that sexually satisfied housewives feel less burdened by the household work. That's why those that do feel burdened are those that also have a low sex desire.

david38 4y ago

I remember reading a study that said women’s appreciation increased as the amount of domestic labor he took on increased. However, her sexual attraction for him increased as his gym / other cool activities increased, even if it was done with time taken from domestic activities. So if you want to be friends, do the dishes. If you want better sex, hit the gym.