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Seems weird. How do you service it? How do conductors work? How do you keep random junk from blowing on top of it? How do you clean it? The photo in the story j
by idiotsecant 4y ago
Seems weird. How do you service it? How do conductors work? How do you keep random junk from blowing on top of it? How do you clean it? The photo in the story just looks like a giant square of PV material. Is that really what this is?
- Kye 4y agoIt looks like they work in a similar way to wood floor panels. https://vimeo.com/556421759 https://vimeo.com/556421759
- idiotsecant 4y agoHuh, interesting video. Seems like a cool idea.
- jl6 4y agoMaybe if it reduces installation cost enough they will be able to tolerate some inefficiencies.
- function_seven 4y agoThere's another link with better details on all of that: https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/erthos-rakes-in-17m-to-install-solar-panels-directly-on-the-ground https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/erthos-rakes-in-1...
- luhn 4y agoRe cleaning, they have a cute little robot that you can see on this page: https://www.erthos.com/energyservices https://www.erthos.com/energyservices It's also visible in the photo in the article.
- thinkmcfly 4y agoThey should fix the wheel spacing so it rolls on the metal frame and doesn't scuff up the edge of the panels
- happyopossum 4y ago> They should fix the wheel spacing Sounds like they optimized it for their use case: "The load of the robot is distributed almost entirely to the module frames rather than the glass module"
- nine_k 4y agoThe robot is cute! I wonder what happens after a major rain though. I suppose the panels are weatherproof. But they lie directly on the ground, and I did not notice any mention of a drainage system. The panels will eventually sag under load from rainwater, preventing it from flowing off them. They mention that their installation can withstand a hurricane. I understand how it works for the wind load, but every hurricane I witnessed brought a lot of rain. EDIT: Apparently they embrace flooding, and say that their panels and connectors can withstand being submerged in water. That's the spirit.
- robocat 4y agoI wonder how they manage drainage and surface flooding? Image of robot on panels: https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3b0818_1667facfc56e475e8fda07a6c6189015~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_980,h_530,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/3b0818_1667facfc56e475e8fda07a6c6189015~mv2.jpg https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3b0818_1667facfc56e475e8f... The image also seems to show water damage in the corner of the closest panel. At a guess, they target areas without heavy rainfall, and fast draining soils. I didn’t see any drainage works in the video https://vimeo.com/556421759 https://vimeo.com/556421759, nor did my google-fu help me find anything where they address the issue. Edit: from https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/erthos-rakes-in-17m-to-install-solar-panels-directly-on-the-ground https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/solar/erthos-rakes-in-1... How do the installations perform in the rain and snow? “Our hydrology report proves that an Erthos plant is almost the same as native soils with respect to accumulated water depth and velocity in rainstorms. All of our designs include professional civil design that includes water runoff management and containment basins as per the jurisdiction’s application of building code and other local requirements.” What about flooding? “The glass/ glass modules and the connectors we specify are all rated for submersion, so flooding is not a catastrophic event in case it does occur.”
- maxerickson 4y agoA site graded to slightly angle towards the sun would also keep the panels drained.
- latchkey 4y agoBlemishes on solar panels aren't necessarily bad or have a huge effect on generation or durability. These could also be previously used panels in the image, which are often sold at enough of a discount to offset the loss in power generation.
- pugworthy 4y agoWish I'd had that at Burning Man this year. Getting dust off a 200 panel array was no fun job...
- hn_throwaway_99 4y agoThanks for posting that! Made me realize that when all the panels are laid over a huge area in essentially the same plane that it must be so much easier and cheaper to clean. Just put this robot on it and let it go, roomba-style (OK, not exactly roomba-style of going over the same spot 50 times, but you get the idea). Seems like it would be a lot cheaper than what would be needed to keep rack-mounted systems clean.
- Maursault 4y ago> Re cleaning, they have a cute little robot Ever cleaned dried bird droppings off a windshield? I'd be pretty surprised if solar-farm Roomba was up to it.
- geysersam 4y agoAny solar installation will face that problem though
- Maursault 4y agoMy point only concerned the robot. Other solar installations won't have a tiny self-driving Zamboni that's ineffective at cleaning bird poo and is bound to be stolen. They use renewable and cost-effective elbow grease instead.
- pulvinar 4y agoI can't see how bird poo could be a problem here: there's no food, nesting site, nor high spot to hang out anywhere near it. Theft could be a problem, though I'd assume they'd have some sort of protection hidden on it.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago> won't have a tiny self-driving Zamboni that's ineffective at cleaning bird poo and is bound to be stolen Why do you think it's ineffective, they could have a pressure washer inside that thing
- Maursault 4y ago> Why do you think it's ineffective, It appears too small to have enough mass to use gravity to be able to do a thing with dried guano. Also, because it has wheels, it gives me the impression that it moves along and does whatever cleaning its capable of as it goes rather than lingering anywhere to thoroughly clean one spot. > they could have a pressure washer inside that thing How big of a water tank do you think?
- ElijahLynn 4y agoThanks, I was wondering how they were going to keep it clean, and the linked article doesn't have the word "clean" in it at all, so it could be improved by discussing more about that. I also see now that the little robot is in the pic in the linked article too.
- leobg 4y agoCool. I can see myself using a Scooba. I’m serious.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- pavon 4y agoFirst, they are banking on the fact that solar doesn't need a lot of repair and maintenance in general, and their design decreases some of the stresses that racked solar panels encounter. I imagine they are also over-sizing the system, and adding remote disconnects so they can disable a certain number of panels and still meet the contract. And then when repair is needed, they just walk on it[1]. Seriously. I'm very curious as to what these pads they mention are like - big foam snow shoes, or walkways they rollout along a seam? [1] https://www.erthos.com/reducing-degradation-rates-with-earth-mount-solar-pv#comp-l4d1ajjo https://www.erthos.com/reducing-degradation-rates-with-earth...
- avip 4y agoLikely something akin to deminers weight-spreading shoe pads. They have to meet panel manufacturer's certified pressure spec.
- baking 4y agoI assume they need to worry about scratches. An XXXXXL clean room bootie wouldn't work because it would pick up sand and grit as you walk across the panels.
- kadoban 4y agoA few scratches aren't going to be a big deal. Not like they not going to get dirty and dinged up from the wind anyway.
- etrautmann 4y agoThe real world just isn’t that clean. There’s no way that a weight spreading shoe will do more than some random frequent dust cleanings
- _ea1k 4y agoOh, that's interesting. And I guess if they do manage to break a few panels, they can be replaced cheaply. Its probably still cheaper than dealing with racking.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- 88913527 4y agoI would have expected it to be like agricultural products -- rows of corn with spaces between rows, so you could access the interior without stepping over the outer panels.
- micromacrofoot 4y agoyeah good point, why not walking/drain space between rows? optimizing for minimal area?
- tuatoru 4y agoThat's a different approach, called agrivoltaics. 3 meter high frames with the panels on top, wide row spacing (about 10x), and crops in the ground. Minimal harvest yield loss (sometimes even improvement, as the shading reduces stress on the plants), and selling power from the same land. It could be marketed as "zero land needed" PV power. With Erthos's on-ground panels, a robot with fat soft tires rolls over the panels. No walking needed.
- necovek 4y agoThat comment seemed to only refer to spacing panels like rows of plants are spaced in agriculture to allow easier access.
- quickthrowman 4y ago> How do conductors work? I assume the conductors will be direct burial cable or single conductors run inside PVC conduit, just like any other outdoor electrical installation. The connectors and junction boxes are probably IP68 rated to handle flooding.
- mc32 4y agoAgreed. The dust is likely to stay there and not blow off and also type of installation does not allow of undergrowth much less dual use of land (parking lot or other potential land use).
- Retric 4y agoThey have a little robot for the dust. Land costs are still generally irrelevant for solar as in well under 5% the cost of this install and you can recover that after at the end of the panel lifespan.
- jacquesm 4y agoI have a similar setup and rain takes care of the dust. A bigger problem is the leaves and bird droppings that get stuck, even that gets dealt with by the rain (eventually) but it has to be a pretty good downpour for that to wash off. Fortunately here in NL we have no shortage of those.
- bushbaba 4y agoInstall cost is ~50-75% the total cost of the system. If you can bring install cost down your tolerance for panel failure can be quite high while still having a better roi