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> This might not only be about protecting the children. Sadly, it never is about protecting the children. It's always about pushing other agendas that are, at

> This might not only be about protecting the children. Sadly, it never is about protecting the children. It's always about pushing other agendas that are, at best, tangentially aimed at protecting children. For example, holding back Texan teens (aka Gen Z, who had a huge impact on the recent midterms) from being a part of the broader political discussion; from informing themselves before they're able to vote.

Shared404 4y ago
This x1000. I live in TX, and it is many people's greatest fear that their kids might start to think differently than their parents.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  This is terrible logic, as when does a corporation performing highly influential campaigns ever have the public interest at heart? In which case, the easiest way to show why this is a bad idea, is imagine if the roles were reversed (i.e. social media was instilling values you didn't agree with and thought were backwards). I don't have to agree with either side to think that allowing a corporation to have such influence over the formation of children is a terrible idea. Especially when said corporations have a long history of scandals (TikTok bowing to CCP, Facebook and Cambridge Analytics, Twitter...) The only reason I can think of, for why we would be OK with this, is not a principled stance - rather, you just support the political views social media is instilling.
  - Shared404 4y ago
    > rather, you just support the political views social media is instilling. People being able to see ideas outside of what their parents and communities see, particularly with respect to human rights (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352)? I suppose I do agree with that. To be clear - facebook? Trash. Twitter? Trash. Instagram? Trash. But it is important for people to learn that things they've been told their whole life are not necessarily true, and social media is sometimes the only way for that to happen.
- hobotime 4y ago
  - Shared404 4y ago
    While these jokes are funny, they unfortunately lend credence to people who need to be convinced that their conspiracies are true. To be clear to anyone else watching this - there is no "indoctrination" going on, only people being exposed to new ideas. Sorry for taking this overly seriously. It gets tiring dealing with people at least once or twice a week who actually, fully believe this.
- gffrd 4y ago
  Yikes, really? And what do they fear the impact of this to be? (Honest question)
  - bradlys 4y ago
    Cultural change. Loss of their political power. Less consolidation of capital.
    - Shared404 4y ago
      ^ this is a good summary. E for more detail: Most individuals who feel this way fear at least one of these greatly, and may or may not fear the others. The people I am thinking of mostly fall in the "cultural change" category. See (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352) for one example.
  - hobotime 4y ago
    My fear is that culture of my people will be assimilated and co-opted. My culture is thousands of years old, and we've survived plagues, war, and murder. I'd like to transmit this culture to my children as I feel it's valuable.
    - b3morales 4y ago
      I wager though that if we grabbed a person from your culture from two thousand years ago they would find many differences comparing their experience of the culture with yours. It's inevitable that it will change and adapt over time. The only completely fixed culture is the one that has no participants any more.
      - hobotime 4y ago
        Of course we've adapted and learned from our experience. But it's done by us and for us. Unless invited, it's reasonable to reject others imposing their values on our culture.
- taylodl 4y ago
  It is many people's greatest fear that their kids might start to think...
scifibestfi 4y ago
I'm amused by the idea that developing brains in particular are being informed, rather than misinformed, by social media. Where did that come from in the age of misinformation and filter bubbles? Adult brains are misinformed by these bubbles, teenage brains are even more vulnerable.
- diag 4y ago
  Teens are either far more informed about the world than their parents or completely oblivious to it. Not much in between.
  - scifibestfi 4y ago
    Were you more informed as a teen than you are now as an adult? Or, more likely, when you look back at yourself as a teen do you cringe at what you believed?
    - diag 4y ago
      I personally wasn't, but I turned 17 during the 2008 financial crisis, so that jump started getting engaged with things. My sisters are way more aware of the world than I was at the time, for instance. But if you talk to some younger people, you'll find that things are different than even a decade ago for younger people.
- Shared404 4y ago
  When what you've been told in your life so far are things like being told your whole life that non-cishet people are "demons" and that racism is good actually, I think social media is the lesser of two evils. (Source: Raised in TX, knew people taught both of the things above and learned otherwise thanks to social media. For the record, my parents did _not_ teach either of the above)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- 4y ago
gjsman-1000 4y ago
Informing themselves, or getting indoctrinated by an app partially owned by the Chinese Communist Party? (When you put it that way, it's an insane idea that we've permitted things to get this far.)
- cloutchaser 4y ago
  No idea why you are getting downvoted. It’s a completely legit point. TikTok is actually now run by an ex xaomi exec and party member. Do people really think they don’t put their fingers on the scale? I guess the same people believed Twitter didn’t either.
- hellotomyrars 4y ago
  I’ll bite. What is the indoctrination the CCP feeding teens over tiktok?
  - gjsman-1000 4y ago
    In China, social media is regulated and enforces that children be shown content that is generally related to STEM or other achievements. No stupid dance videos, no memes, no stupid trends - it's "check out this algorithm I wrote!" Many of the top-trending videos on TikTok would actually be banned. Is it malicious? I think so, though not everyone agrees, but the outcome is the same both ways: I would say it is indoctrination into stupidity, not an ideology. Remember, these are the future soldiers who could, potentially, fight China in a Taiwan skirmish. If they only know how to communicate by meme, can't spell anything, have no sense of achievement, and all dream of being YouTube stars, you've won before firing a single shot.
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      And here I thought it was all a conspiracy to infect American teens with imaginary mental illnesses.
      - dpkirchner 4y ago
remarkEon 4y ago
What percentage of Gen Z is under the age of 18?
- falcolas 4y ago
  To be over 18 now, you need to be born roughly before 2005. Per Wikipedia, Gen Z seems to run from 1995 to 2010 (which is oddly small considering most generations span 20 years), so over a third of them.
onetimeusename 4y ago
Not that I support this bill because turning over ID documents is dumb and there will be ways around it and I don't see how it is enforceable, but I am just curious if the context of content on the app motivates your opinion. Are there limits you believe in? Like take for example 8chan if it still existed. Would you be ok with Gen Z going on there to inform themselves?
- Shared404 4y ago
  > take for example 8chan if it still existed. Would you be ok with Gen Z going on there to inform themselves? No - but I oppose usage of law to prevent this, at least in this way. Either a site should be up, or it shouldn't. I know many Gen Z individuals with better critical thinking then some people of older gens and vice versa. As long as a site is not actively promoting harm/hate[0], it should be allowed to argue for it's ideas (whether win or lose). [0] See the Paradox of Tolerance.

Shared404 4y ago

This x1000. I live in TX, and it is many people's greatest fear that their kids might start to think differently than their parents.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
This is terrible logic, as when does a corporation performing highly influential campaigns ever have the public interest at heart? In which case, the easiest way to show why this is a bad idea, is imagine if the roles were reversed (i.e. social media was instilling values you didn't agree with and thought were backwards). I don't have to agree with either side to think that allowing a corporation to have such influence over the formation of children is a terrible idea. Especially when said corporations have a long history of scandals (TikTok bowing to CCP, Facebook and Cambridge Analytics, Twitter...) The only reason I can think of, for why we would be OK with this, is not a principled stance - rather, you just support the political views social media is instilling.
- Shared404 4y ago
  > rather, you just support the political views social media is instilling. People being able to see ideas outside of what their parents and communities see, particularly with respect to human rights (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352)? I suppose I do agree with that. To be clear - facebook? Trash. Twitter? Trash. Instagram? Trash. But it is important for people to learn that things they've been told their whole life are not necessarily true, and social media is sometimes the only way for that to happen.
hobotime 4y ago
- Shared404 4y ago
  While these jokes are funny, they unfortunately lend credence to people who need to be convinced that their conspiracies are true. To be clear to anyone else watching this - there is no "indoctrination" going on, only people being exposed to new ideas. Sorry for taking this overly seriously. It gets tiring dealing with people at least once or twice a week who actually, fully believe this.
gffrd 4y ago
Yikes, really? And what do they fear the impact of this to be? (Honest question)
- bradlys 4y ago
  Cultural change. Loss of their political power. Less consolidation of capital.
  - Shared404 4y ago
    ^ this is a good summary. E for more detail: Most individuals who feel this way fear at least one of these greatly, and may or may not fear the others. The people I am thinking of mostly fall in the "cultural change" category. See (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33924352) for one example.
- hobotime 4y ago
  My fear is that culture of my people will be assimilated and co-opted. My culture is thousands of years old, and we've survived plagues, war, and murder. I'd like to transmit this culture to my children as I feel it's valuable.
  - b3morales 4y ago
    I wager though that if we grabbed a person from your culture from two thousand years ago they would find many differences comparing their experience of the culture with yours. It's inevitable that it will change and adapt over time. The only completely fixed culture is the one that has no participants any more.
    - hobotime 4y ago
      Of course we've adapted and learned from our experience. But it's done by us and for us. Unless invited, it's reasonable to reject others imposing their values on our culture.
taylodl 4y ago
It is many people's greatest fear that their kids might start to think...

scifibestfi 4y ago

I'm amused by the idea that developing brains in particular are being informed, rather than misinformed, by social media. Where did that come from in the age of misinformation and filter bubbles? Adult brains are misinformed by these bubbles, teenage brains are even more vulnerable.

diag 4y ago
Teens are either far more informed about the world than their parents or completely oblivious to it. Not much in between.
- scifibestfi 4y ago
  Were you more informed as a teen than you are now as an adult? Or, more likely, when you look back at yourself as a teen do you cringe at what you believed?
  - diag 4y ago
    I personally wasn't, but I turned 17 during the 2008 financial crisis, so that jump started getting engaged with things. My sisters are way more aware of the world than I was at the time, for instance. But if you talk to some younger people, you'll find that things are different than even a decade ago for younger people.
Shared404 4y ago
When what you've been told in your life so far are things like being told your whole life that non-cishet people are "demons" and that racism is good actually, I think social media is the lesser of two evils. (Source: Raised in TX, knew people taught both of the things above and learned otherwise thanks to social media. For the record, my parents did _not_ teach either of the above)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
4y ago

gjsman-1000 4y ago

Informing themselves, or getting indoctrinated by an app partially owned by the Chinese Communist Party? (When you put it that way, it's an insane idea that we've permitted things to get this far.)

cloutchaser 4y ago
No idea why you are getting downvoted. It’s a completely legit point. TikTok is actually now run by an ex xaomi exec and party member. Do people really think they don’t put their fingers on the scale? I guess the same people believed Twitter didn’t either.
hellotomyrars 4y ago
I’ll bite. What is the indoctrination the CCP feeding teens over tiktok?
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  In China, social media is regulated and enforces that children be shown content that is generally related to STEM or other achievements. No stupid dance videos, no memes, no stupid trends - it's "check out this algorithm I wrote!" Many of the top-trending videos on TikTok would actually be banned. Is it malicious? I think so, though not everyone agrees, but the outcome is the same both ways: I would say it is indoctrination into stupidity, not an ideology. Remember, these are the future soldiers who could, potentially, fight China in a Taiwan skirmish. If they only know how to communicate by meme, can't spell anything, have no sense of achievement, and all dream of being YouTube stars, you've won before firing a single shot.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    And here I thought it was all a conspiracy to infect American teens with imaginary mental illnesses.
    - dpkirchner 4y ago

remarkEon 4y ago

What percentage of Gen Z is under the age of 18?

falcolas 4y ago
To be over 18 now, you need to be born roughly before 2005. Per Wikipedia, Gen Z seems to run from 1995 to 2010 (which is oddly small considering most generations span 20 years), so over a third of them.

onetimeusename 4y ago

Not that I support this bill because turning over ID documents is dumb and there will be ways around it and I don't see how it is enforceable, but I am just curious if the context of content on the app motivates your opinion. Are there limits you believe in? Like take for example 8chan if it still existed. Would you be ok with Gen Z going on there to inform themselves?

Shared404 4y ago
> take for example 8chan if it still existed. Would you be ok with Gen Z going on there to inform themselves? No - but I oppose usage of law to prevent this, at least in this way. Either a site should be up, or it shouldn't. I know many Gen Z individuals with better critical thinking then some people of older gens and vice versa. As long as a site is not actively promoting harm/hate[0], it should be allowed to argue for it's ideas (whether win or lose). [0] See the Paradox of Tolerance.