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Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totali

Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. There is a quote by a KGB defector which I lost the cite for. "There is nowhere to defect to." They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small ways that you are forever unwelcome in civil society. They should do exactly that to folks who think they can try to get on a helicopter with a laptop bag full of egold like cyberpunk Ceaușescus that at best we will count the days until we can cheer their deaths if we cannot do the needful ourselves due to laws or norms.

throwaway290 4y ago
> They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small ways that you are forever unwelcome in civil society. Ah, what wouldn't I give to feel forever unwelcome in small ways but have another country's passport/bank account/etc. Heartwarming to know it's easier for those who are running my (on paper) country into mud. Guess I'll keep running around the sanctions I'm under because of them while they live in luxury and know they will be about to keep doing it no matter what goes down. I don't think they and their helicopters should be allowed in and their funny money should not convert as it degrades democracy.
kevinmrose 4y ago
Here's the KGB defector's interview you're talking about, his name was Yuri Bezmenov. https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?t=4624 https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?t=4624
- greggarious 4y ago
  Thanks I'll bookmark it.
EGreg 4y ago
I think the only Russian leader who ever left and lived abroad was Gorbachev. Even Navalny came back to face the music, and he wasnt even president (yet?) I do not believe they are self serving at the expense of their country and will live in a bunker while their countrymen are bombed. They all thought and think they were doing the right thing for their country. Even Yeltsin, when he did in 1993 what essentially the Peruvian guy is doing now — trying to dissolve parliament in a constitutional crisis, in order to perpetuate the “shock therapy” of privatizing everything to oligarchs while people started to starve. I an sure even Stalin thought he was modernizing the country, just as Mao later did, while people were starving. The problem isn’t that they are self serving kleptocrats. Stalin owned one suit I think, and personally was poor. Just because they love their country and think they’re helping it, doesn’t make it true that they’re helping people though. I am sure George W Bush loved USA and wanted the best for it when he invaded Iraq. As libertarians we question the basic “patriotic common wisdom” of how things are set up in the first place.
- throwaway290 4y ago
  Hordes of them around the revolution. After there was never a serious change of power.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    Well yes, after the Russian revolution the losers fled for their lives. As did Trotsky when Stalin was seeking to kill him. I think he dressed as a woman to escape lol I am talking about subsequent leaders who actually ruled Russia. Yeltsin helped usher in the Chicago Boys reforms in Russia and he literally fired on Congress. The Peruvian guy does less than that but he is denounced - yet Yeltsin was supported by USA. There is a cover of Time Magazine w him holding an American flag saying “Yanks to the Rescue” where we claimed to have interfered in the Russian elections to have him re-elected despite a 6% (!!) approval rating. We did it so the communist party candidate wouldn’t get into power (Zyuganov). They even made a movie about it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Z7pAcGQSQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Z7pAcGQSQ So when it comes to Russia, interfering in their elections is something we are proud of doing and even probably overstate it for propaganda purposes. That is another reason why even on a logic/hypocrisy level, very little said by large states (especially empires) means anything to intelligent people. It’s all sound bites designed to get public support for the latest policy of the latest administration, who themselves make it up as they go. Instead of working hard to hear legitimate concerns of others and prevent wars, they escalate wars. This is true across the board in Russia, China, USA etc. They supposedly “work for us” but they do such a terrible job and then we have to pay with our taxes and our boys (and kill other people by the tens of thousands) for THEIR mistakes while they never even come close to paying the price an average young male member of the public has to pay. In the Russian revolution, 20 million people died, many killing their own relatives. But not Stalin, Lenin, or any of the Bolshevik leaders. Must be nice to be the political class. And people buy this bullshit. Read “war is a racket” by Smeey Butler
    - throwaway290 4y ago
      Yes, it is clear you are talking about USSR and post-USSR RF. Again I don't know what's the point of picking a period with no real change of power, not even close to what seems possible in Iran. Russian leaders were as quick to leave as any when shit hit the fan is my point.
citilife 4y ago
> Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. Putin has openly said he despises what the west did to Gaddafi and believes thats what they want for him. He not only fears it, but but said he fears for his civilization (Russia). The west makes it pretty easy to be feareful - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-s... Putin asked what right the west had to assassinate Gaddafi without a trial and destroy all the countries infrastructure https://www.the-sun.com/news/2268833/vladimir-putin-killed-gaddafi-navalny-russia/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/2268833/vladimir-putin-killed-g... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-libya-idUSTRE73P4L920110426 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-libya-idUSTR... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/26/libya-us-british-putin-gaddafi https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/26/libya-us-briti...
- rasz 4y ago
  This is projecting. Everything you said russia has been doing for years. Less than a week ago russians published those photos https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zcak1k/photos_are_circulating_from_the_luhansk_region/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zcak...
- greggarious 4y ago
  >Putin asked what right the west had to assassinate Gaddafi without a trial and destroy all the countries infrastructure The purposeful destruction of infrastructure is an inexcusable war crime. But "the west" did not stick a sword up Gaddafi's butt -- that was his own people, enraged by the actions of a totalitarian. "The West" did not wander into Libya and and lynch a so called world leader who only wants norms followed when said lynch mob has formed. To kill in this manner is a crime, but it happens when so many laws and norms have been broken it's more akin to manslaughter, more akin to a concentration camp victim losing their temper, seizing a firearm, and executing their former captors. (As they say in America: "Fuck around, find out.")
  - citilife 4y ago
themitigating 4y ago
"They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect." If they were ok with being hated by the world and some large percentage of their population why would they care about being respected? I think this is huge divide between sociopaths and normal people. You think everyone cares about honor, respect, and the like but many people just want money and or power.
- greggarious 4y ago
  >I think this is huge divide between sociopaths and normal people. You think everyone cares about honor, respect, and the like but many people just want money and or power. I know. I worked in DC :-)
another2another 4y ago
I also heard somewhere (also don't have link), that he apparently watched in horror the killing of Gaddafi multiple times, possibly imagining himself in the same situation. I wonder if there's a deepfake of that video with Putin's face instead of Gaddafi's - that would certainly freak him out :)
JadeNB 4y ago
> Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. > What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. I'm trying to give this a charitable reading, but I'm puzzled by it. First, I'm pretty sure that Mussolini was shot, not hanged, but obviously that doesn't change the main sentiment. Second, I don't think I'm particularly likely to be hanged, and not much more likely than the average USian to be shot, but both those outcomes do frighten me if I think about them. So, when you say "What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA", do you mean people who are scared of being shot or hanged, or people who think that their likely end is being shot or hanged? Or something else? Since you're getting a lot of reasoned replies I assume your meaning is clear to others, but I'm really having trouble figuring it out.

throwaway290 4y ago

> They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect. Folks are allowed to show you, in small ways that you are forever unwelcome in civil society. Ah, what wouldn't I give to feel forever unwelcome in small ways but have another country's passport/bank account/etc. Heartwarming to know it's easier for those who are running my (on paper) country into mud. Guess I'll keep running around the sanctions I'm under because of them while they live in luxury and know they will be about to keep doing it no matter what goes down. I don't think they and their helicopters should be allowed in and their funny money should not convert as it degrades democracy.

kevinmrose 4y ago

Here's the KGB defector's interview you're talking about, his name was Yuri Bezmenov. https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?t=4624 https://youtu.be/yErKTVdETpw?t=4624

greggarious 4y ago
Thanks I'll bookmark it.

EGreg 4y ago

I think the only Russian leader who ever left and lived abroad was Gorbachev. Even Navalny came back to face the music, and he wasnt even president (yet?) I do not believe they are self serving at the expense of their country and will live in a bunker while their countrymen are bombed. They all thought and think they were doing the right thing for their country. Even Yeltsin, when he did in 1993 what essentially the Peruvian guy is doing now — trying to dissolve parliament in a constitutional crisis, in order to perpetuate the “shock therapy” of privatizing everything to oligarchs while people started to starve. I an sure even Stalin thought he was modernizing the country, just as Mao later did, while people were starving. The problem isn’t that they are self serving kleptocrats. Stalin owned one suit I think, and personally was poor. Just because they love their country and think they’re helping it, doesn’t make it true that they’re helping people though. I am sure George W Bush loved USA and wanted the best for it when he invaded Iraq. As libertarians we question the basic “patriotic common wisdom” of how things are set up in the first place.

throwaway290 4y ago
Hordes of them around the revolution. After there was never a serious change of power.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Well yes, after the Russian revolution the losers fled for their lives. As did Trotsky when Stalin was seeking to kill him. I think he dressed as a woman to escape lol I am talking about subsequent leaders who actually ruled Russia. Yeltsin helped usher in the Chicago Boys reforms in Russia and he literally fired on Congress. The Peruvian guy does less than that but he is denounced - yet Yeltsin was supported by USA. There is a cover of Time Magazine w him holding an American flag saying “Yanks to the Rescue” where we claimed to have interfered in the Russian elections to have him re-elected despite a 6% (!!) approval rating. We did it so the communist party candidate wouldn’t get into power (Zyuganov). They even made a movie about it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Z7pAcGQSQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X1Z7pAcGQSQ So when it comes to Russia, interfering in their elections is something we are proud of doing and even probably overstate it for propaganda purposes. That is another reason why even on a logic/hypocrisy level, very little said by large states (especially empires) means anything to intelligent people. It’s all sound bites designed to get public support for the latest policy of the latest administration, who themselves make it up as they go. Instead of working hard to hear legitimate concerns of others and prevent wars, they escalate wars. This is true across the board in Russia, China, USA etc. They supposedly “work for us” but they do such a terrible job and then we have to pay with our taxes and our boys (and kill other people by the tens of thousands) for THEIR mistakes while they never even come close to paying the price an average young male member of the public has to pay. In the Russian revolution, 20 million people died, many killing their own relatives. But not Stalin, Lenin, or any of the Bolshevik leaders. Must be nice to be the political class. And people buy this bullshit. Read “war is a racket” by Smeey Butler
  - throwaway290 4y ago
    Yes, it is clear you are talking about USSR and post-USSR RF. Again I don't know what's the point of picking a period with no real change of power, not even close to what seems possible in Iran. Russian leaders were as quick to leave as any when shit hit the fan is my point.

citilife 4y ago

> Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. Putin has openly said he despises what the west did to Gaddafi and believes thats what they want for him. He not only fears it, but but said he fears for his civilization (Russia). The west makes it pretty easy to be feareful - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-saw-he-died/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clinton-on-qaddafi-we-came-we-s... Putin asked what right the west had to assassinate Gaddafi without a trial and destroy all the countries infrastructure https://www.the-sun.com/news/2268833/vladimir-putin-killed-gaddafi-navalny-russia/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/2268833/vladimir-putin-killed-g... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-libya-idUSTRE73P4L920110426 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-libya-idUSTR... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/26/libya-us-british-putin-gaddafi https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/26/libya-us-briti...

rasz 4y ago
This is projecting. Everything you said russia has been doing for years. Less than a week ago russians published those photos https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zcak1k/photos_are_circulating_from_the_luhansk_region/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/zcak...
greggarious 4y ago
>Putin asked what right the west had to assassinate Gaddafi without a trial and destroy all the countries infrastructure The purposeful destruction of infrastructure is an inexcusable war crime. But "the west" did not stick a sword up Gaddafi's butt -- that was his own people, enraged by the actions of a totalitarian. "The West" did not wander into Libya and and lynch a so called world leader who only wants norms followed when said lynch mob has formed. To kill in this manner is a crime, but it happens when so many laws and norms have been broken it's more akin to manslaughter, more akin to a concentration camp victim losing their temper, seizing a firearm, and executing their former captors. (As they say in America: "Fuck around, find out.")
- citilife 4y ago

themitigating 4y ago

"They can live in luxury, but you cannot buy respect." If they were ok with being hated by the world and some large percentage of their population why would they care about being respected? I think this is huge divide between sociopaths and normal people. You think everyone cares about honor, respect, and the like but many people just want money and or power.

greggarious 4y ago
>I think this is huge divide between sociopaths and normal people. You think everyone cares about honor, respect, and the like but many people just want money and or power. I know. I worked in DC :-)

another2another 4y ago

I also heard somewhere (also don't have link), that he apparently watched in horror the killing of Gaddafi multiple times, possibly imagining himself in the same situation. I wonder if there's a deepfake of that video with Putin's face instead of Gaddafi's - that would certainly freak him out :)

JadeNB 4y ago

> Someone told me in a bar on K Street the thing Vladimir Putin fears most is being hung from a gas station like Mussolinu, and I suspect that goes for all totalitarians. > What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA. I'm trying to give this a charitable reading, but I'm puzzled by it. First, I'm pretty sure that Mussolini was shot, not hanged, but obviously that doesn't change the main sentiment. Second, I don't think I'm particularly likely to be hanged, and not much more likely than the average USian to be shot, but both those outcomes do frighten me if I think about them. So, when you say "What scares me is I've met people like that at home in the USA", do you mean people who are scared of being shot or hanged, or people who think that their likely end is being shot or hanged? Or something else? Since you're getting a lot of reasoned replies I assume your meaning is clear to others, but I'm really having trouble figuring it out.