4 ms·

All of that is irrelevant. Twitter had a secret blacklist. Gross behavior from a gross company.

IfOnlyYouKnew 4y ago
A “secret blacklist” that’s been known forever, or at least for two years: https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1601017194456186881?s=20&t=pYXrm6GNUDU_kv9QmDoxhg https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1601017194456186881?s=20&t...
- veec_cas_tant 4y ago
  Here is an announcement from 2018[0]: >“It’s shaping up to be one of the highest-impact things that we’ve done,” the chief executive, Jack Dorsey ,said of the update, which will change how tweets appear in search results or conversations. “The spirit of the thing is that we want to take the burden off the person receiving abuse or mob-like behavior.” > The new system will use behavioral signals to assess whether a Twitter account is adding to – or detracting from – the tenor of conversations... > The updated algorithm will result in certain tweets being pushed further down in a list of search results or replies, but will not delete them from the platform. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/15/twitter-ranking-algorithm-change-trolling-harassment-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/15/twitter-r...
  - rhaksw 4y ago
    IMO that's fine, but if you want me to trust such a system, the author should see on their tweet some indication that it's been demoted.
  - jdminhbg 4y ago
    > The updated algorithm will result These screenshots are about actions taken by Twitter employees, not an updated algorithm.
- rhaksw 4y ago
  ... and I've worked on Reveddit for four years. Less than 1% of Redditors know that all removed comments are secretly removed. It's hard to make people care about this stuff. Most of us only start to see the harm of something when it's shown in context. Just showing that something can be theoretically harmful isn't enough.
  - NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
    TYVYS shadowbanning and silently removing comment is such cowardly behavior. Against spam bots, fine. But against what are obviously real people? It's wrong.
    - rhaksw 4y ago
      TYVYS?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - tyvysexplainer 4y ago
        "Thank You For Your Service", but with a typo on the middle letter.
        rhaksw 4y ago
        Oh, thanks for making an account just to explain that!
        saysnoproblem 4y ago
        No problem!
michaelgrosner2 4y ago
Why is that gross? It's their speech to decide what they want to promote or not promote. Why are you anti-free speech?
- rhaksw 4y ago
  It's not trustworthy when a system actions a user's content without telling them. Free speech principles are also a thing. The question is not what is getting demoted, it's how. In this case, it's being done secretly, and Twitter isn't the only one doing it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33916414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33916414
  - belltaco 4y ago
    This outrage is hilarious coz HN shadowbans people too. Which increases site quality which is why all the complainers are on here.
    - rhaksw 4y ago
      Transparently removing content is the normal way to moderate a forum. This research [1] suggests it reduces mod workload because users learn the rules. Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. It isn't accurate to say secrecy increases site quality. No such qualitative study has been done. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/duwdco/should_moderators_provide_removal_explanations/f79o1yr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/duwdco/should_mode...
      - belltaco 4y ago
        That's talking about article submissions, not comments. Couldn't read the PDF because the link is broken. More than 95% of the time I see a flagged account on HN, they post complete garbage that leads to more flaming replies if not removed promptly. HN has a very limited set of moderators, like one or two, who cannot police every comment 24/7. >Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. Popular where? In corporate and niche business use cases? What are some public Discourses that allow everyone to post?
etchalon 4y ago
EVERY social network has a "secret" blacklist. Every. single. one.
- stale2002 4y ago
  So then the problem is worse than people thought. I am glad that you agree that this is such a huge problem, and it is a good thing that now more people are away of how extensive it is.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    Guess what, Hacker News does too. Try working in integrity for a few years, you'll realise why these things are necessary, because people just won't stop being jerks.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      Twitter being one of the largest communication platforms in the world is something that I am much more concerned about than a much smaller internet forum. So my point stands.

A “secret blacklist” that’s been known forever, or at least for two years: https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1601017194456186881?s=20&t=pYXrm6GNUDU_kv9QmDoxhg https://twitter.com/dancow/status/1601017194456186881?s=20&t...

veec_cas_tant 4y ago
Here is an announcement from 2018[0]: >“It’s shaping up to be one of the highest-impact things that we’ve done,” the chief executive, Jack Dorsey ,said of the update, which will change how tweets appear in search results or conversations. “The spirit of the thing is that we want to take the burden off the person receiving abuse or mob-like behavior.” > The new system will use behavioral signals to assess whether a Twitter account is adding to – or detracting from – the tenor of conversations... > The updated algorithm will result in certain tweets being pushed further down in a list of search results or replies, but will not delete them from the platform. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/15/twitter-ranking-algorithm-change-trolling-harassment-abuse https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/15/twitter-r...
- rhaksw 4y ago
  IMO that's fine, but if you want me to trust such a system, the author should see on their tweet some indication that it's been demoted.
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  > The updated algorithm will result These screenshots are about actions taken by Twitter employees, not an updated algorithm.
rhaksw 4y ago
... and I've worked on Reveddit for four years. Less than 1% of Redditors know that all removed comments are secretly removed. It's hard to make people care about this stuff. Most of us only start to see the harm of something when it's shown in context. Just showing that something can be theoretically harmful isn't enough.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  TYVYS shadowbanning and silently removing comment is such cowardly behavior. Against spam bots, fine. But against what are obviously real people? It's wrong.
  - rhaksw 4y ago
    TYVYS?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - tyvysexplainer 4y ago
      "Thank You For Your Service", but with a typo on the middle letter.
      - rhaksw 4y ago
        Oh, thanks for making an account just to explain that!
        saysnoproblem 4y ago
        No problem!

michaelgrosner2 4y ago

Why is that gross? It's their speech to decide what they want to promote or not promote. Why are you anti-free speech?

rhaksw 4y ago
It's not trustworthy when a system actions a user's content without telling them. Free speech principles are also a thing. The question is not what is getting demoted, it's how. In this case, it's being done secretly, and Twitter isn't the only one doing it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33916414 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33916414
- belltaco 4y ago
  This outrage is hilarious coz HN shadowbans people too. Which increases site quality which is why all the complainers are on here.
  - rhaksw 4y ago
    Transparently removing content is the normal way to moderate a forum. This research [1] suggests it reduces mod workload because users learn the rules. Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. It isn't accurate to say secrecy increases site quality. No such qualitative study has been done. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/duwdco/should_moderators_provide_removal_explanations/f79o1yr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/duwdco/should_mode...
    - belltaco 4y ago
      That's talking about article submissions, not comments. Couldn't read the PDF because the link is broken. More than 95% of the time I see a flagged account on HN, they post complete garbage that leads to more flaming replies if not removed promptly. HN has a very limited set of moderators, like one or two, who cannot police every comment 24/7. >Discourse doesn't secretly remove content and is popular. Popular where? In corporate and niche business use cases? What are some public Discourses that allow everyone to post?

etchalon 4y ago

EVERY social network has a "secret" blacklist. Every. single. one.

stale2002 4y ago
So then the problem is worse than people thought. I am glad that you agree that this is such a huge problem, and it is a good thing that now more people are away of how extensive it is.
- philjohn 4y ago
  Guess what, Hacker News does too. Try working in integrity for a few years, you'll realise why these things are necessary, because people just won't stop being jerks.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    Twitter being one of the largest communication platforms in the world is something that I am much more concerned about than a much smaller internet forum. So my point stands.