5 ms·

So a remote job will become a trophy? If you suck, you are in the office kindergarden panopticon, until you either get good or quit?

whywhywhywhy 4y ago
Where’s the evidence you can deliver if it’s never been seen. Definitely people I trust no matter what their schedule. Definitely people who worked fine before pandemic and people I hired during the pandemic that are close to useless and just pretend to work if they’re not in the office.
- throwaway8689 4y ago
  I think this is what my current place had in mind when they wrote my contract. They have the option to bring me on site 'if the business needs' it. But they're happy with my work and only ask me to come in for specific meetings, which average one every 8 weeks.
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  This is not a remote/in-office question, though. You can hire someone who can't perform in-person just as easily as a remote person who can't perform. You still have to actively evaluate the performance of your new employees and ensure they have proper guidance if they need it. The leadership techniques need a bit of refinement, but it can all be done remotely.
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  If one cannot tell if someone is being productive remotely, Its hard for me to believe they could actually tell if they were in office. Someone sitting at a desk is not evidence of productivity.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    It is not. But you do get some information about a person's work ethic from being in person, than you do being at home: * overhearing organic topics of conversation * walking by their desk and observing random 'snapshots' of tasks * observing general work patterns * observing any red flags of poor work ethic When someone is remote, you have to explicitly work to gather this information (many don't, and simply wait to judge output at a deadline), rather than the implicit gathering you'd get from being in physical proximity. It also helps when people are new in their career and/or come from different backgrounds, and don't fully understand productivity expectations. You can easily provide quick feedback, and you can set examples of expected behavior by doing it in front of them.
    - Daishiman 4y ago
      These are by far the most mediocre metric of productivity. I've worked remote for my entire career. I nap. I work out of my pajamas. I go out on walks to think. And I delivered a solution for a hedge fund client that couldn't for the life of itself find or hire even moderately competent devs to create the solutions myself and my associates built for them. You're just defending the "adult kindergarten" thesis of employee productivity.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying that those things are measures of productivity, or that they're disqualifying. I'm saying, there's part of a holistic understanding of work ethic... (which is a different thing than productivity). If someone is goofing off occasionally, but delivers their work, that's a good thing. Having a healthy amount of goofing off is not only not a problem, it's part of a healthy work environment. But, over my career I have literally seen egregious instances where someone, habitually, up against a deadline shows up to work late, sits down in their cube, puts on a gaming headset and plays an MMORPG for a few hours, then shows up to the standup and says they need more time to get their work done. These situations are something that even the most Theory Y manager would need to address. Luckily I now work in workplaces where I have the luxury of hiring people with a track record of success, but in places where many hires might not be aware of commonly accepted workplace expectations, these things do happen. That doesn't mean you should treat everyone like children, as you say, but it does mean you need to be aware of your employee's attitudes and expectations.
- adamsmith143 4y ago
  >just pretend to work if they’re not in the office. What makes you think they'd be any different in an office? Have you actually walked around an office before? A Significant portion of people are faffing about for the majority of the day. But in remote there's no need to do kabuki and swap tabs whenever your boss walks by so you look busy.
  - whywhywhywhy 4y ago
    As I said some used to be productive when we worked in the office for years and now it's extremely obvious to everyone who has to work with them that they don't do anything if they're not visible.
    - adamsmith143 4y ago
      Then put them on pip and get rid of them.

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

Where’s the evidence you can deliver if it’s never been seen. Definitely people I trust no matter what their schedule. Definitely people who worked fine before pandemic and people I hired during the pandemic that are close to useless and just pretend to work if they’re not in the office.

throwaway8689 4y ago
I think this is what my current place had in mind when they wrote my contract. They have the option to bring me on site 'if the business needs' it. But they're happy with my work and only ask me to come in for specific meetings, which average one every 8 weeks.
KerrAvon 4y ago
This is not a remote/in-office question, though. You can hire someone who can't perform in-person just as easily as a remote person who can't perform. You still have to actively evaluate the performance of your new employees and ensure they have proper guidance if they need it. The leadership techniques need a bit of refinement, but it can all be done remotely.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
If one cannot tell if someone is being productive remotely, Its hard for me to believe they could actually tell if they were in office. Someone sitting at a desk is not evidence of productivity.
- kube-system 4y ago
  It is not. But you do get some information about a person's work ethic from being in person, than you do being at home: * overhearing organic topics of conversation * walking by their desk and observing random 'snapshots' of tasks * observing general work patterns * observing any red flags of poor work ethic When someone is remote, you have to explicitly work to gather this information (many don't, and simply wait to judge output at a deadline), rather than the implicit gathering you'd get from being in physical proximity. It also helps when people are new in their career and/or come from different backgrounds, and don't fully understand productivity expectations. You can easily provide quick feedback, and you can set examples of expected behavior by doing it in front of them.
  - Daishiman 4y ago
    These are by far the most mediocre metric of productivity. I've worked remote for my entire career. I nap. I work out of my pajamas. I go out on walks to think. And I delivered a solution for a hedge fund client that couldn't for the life of itself find or hire even moderately competent devs to create the solutions myself and my associates built for them. You're just defending the "adult kindergarten" thesis of employee productivity.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I absolutely agree with what you're saying. I'm not saying that those things are measures of productivity, or that they're disqualifying. I'm saying, there's part of a holistic understanding of work ethic... (which is a different thing than productivity). If someone is goofing off occasionally, but delivers their work, that's a good thing. Having a healthy amount of goofing off is not only not a problem, it's part of a healthy work environment. But, over my career I have literally seen egregious instances where someone, habitually, up against a deadline shows up to work late, sits down in their cube, puts on a gaming headset and plays an MMORPG for a few hours, then shows up to the standup and says they need more time to get their work done. These situations are something that even the most Theory Y manager would need to address. Luckily I now work in workplaces where I have the luxury of hiring people with a track record of success, but in places where many hires might not be aware of commonly accepted workplace expectations, these things do happen. That doesn't mean you should treat everyone like children, as you say, but it does mean you need to be aware of your employee's attitudes and expectations.
adamsmith143 4y ago
>just pretend to work if they’re not in the office. What makes you think they'd be any different in an office? Have you actually walked around an office before? A Significant portion of people are faffing about for the majority of the day. But in remote there's no need to do kabuki and swap tabs whenever your boss walks by so you look busy.
- whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  As I said some used to be productive when we worked in the office for years and now it's extremely obvious to everyone who has to work with them that they don't do anything if they're not visible.
  - adamsmith143 4y ago
    Then put them on pip and get rid of them.